Author Topic: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats  (Read 27582 times)

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Offline VirtualStranger

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2012, 09:00:00 pm »
Here's a link to the Kickstarter that started this whole business.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games

I'm curious as to why she needs $6000 to do something that she's been doing for free for a while now, but I'm not too particularly concerned about it.

I've been hanging around 4chan quite a bit lately (mostly browsing Legend of Korra threads on /co/) and this story has popped up there a lot lately.

Anyway, here's a nice screencap I just took from /v/.




Offline Cataclysm

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2012, 09:15:45 pm »
Dude, she is not a feminist fundie. Feminist fundies are like the ones on the mainpage right now who say that men are inherently evil. To my knowledge, this particular gamer has never said anything remotely similar to that.


And just because Kirk Cameron never said gays should be stoned doesn't mean he isn't a fundie. She said some very dumb things in the past and misrepresented some media in her reviews. She even held some double standards. She's a fundie, not as vile as radscum, but it suits her.

Males also fall into a similar stereotype as well
http://image.naldzgraphics.net/2011/02/6-God-of-War-III-Kratos.jpg
http://mimg.ugo.com/201002/36790/dantes-inferno-toy.jpg
http://gaygamer.net/images/379.jpg



And yet these stereotypes don't objectify men, they empower them.  Even that last one, who is more buff than most men I've met.


No, I'm pretty sure that's objectification.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2012, 09:29:07 pm »
2nd as I stated in the OP I don't think this warrants all the crap and hate she is getting.  But also the fact that she is wearing the feminist banner doesn't help her cause either.  If I was her I would of dropped the whole feminist act and just stated the main point - female gamer sexism -.

Misogyny is a feminist issue. She should not have to apologize for labeling herself a feminist; it fits her and her views perfectly. If anything, an increase in vocal feminists can help move people away from the stereotype of the hairy-legged humorless feminazi. Even if she doesn't label herself publicly as a feminist, sooner or later the trolls will still call her one, except this time as an insult.

3rd Yes its quite evident sexism is rampant.  She doesn't need to do a kickstarter and ask for money (especially 6,000 dollars) for something that is widely known and has been covered before like the penny arcade that was posted.  This could easily of been done without asking for money just simply hitting the internet for 5-15 minutes.

She intends to do in-depth explorations of tropes of female video game characters. This is not something that can be covered in a short episode with a sped-up voice. This is also not her first project; she has done professional-quality projects before that have been influential for other writers, and she wants to maintain that quality here.

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But aside from the sexism coming from the multiplayer crowd I don't see the problem.

This is why the videos are necessary. Male gamers don't always pick up on this stuff, but the messages are extremely obvious to women. In video games, women are typically prizes or sex objects (often both), and are objectified without being given the same sort of character depth frequently awarded to male characters.

Sexism as far as the character models themselves exist on both sides. In fact I never saw it as a problem, I figured the overly sexualized females was fan service for the males and the overly alphamale sexualized males were for the females and don't see the problem there.

I don't care if the models are "pretty" (you're going to be looking at them a lot, so they might as well be easy on the eyes), but there is a clear problem in your average fantasy RPG when male warriors are always covered in legitimate armor like this



Yet time and time again, women are shown in skimpy chainmail bikinis that have no other purpose than to objectify and sexualize them. (Having a breastplate that contours the shape of a woman's breasts would actually be dangerous to the wearer, because if struck it could break the sternum.)


Yes while some games are getting better the only ones I can think of that actually had good female armor was Skyrim devs it's not that hard when a female avatar equips the armor just add a sport for boobs but dont show them unless required.  As for harassment honestly it all goes back to the patriachy I was forced in 8th grade by friends to play a male character but that is stil the idea of gender roles
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 09:30:59 pm by kefkaownsall »

Offline ThunderWulf

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2012, 09:47:29 pm »
Yes while some games are getting better the only ones I can think of that actually had good female armor was Skyrim devs it's not that hard when a female avatar equips the armor just add a sport for boobs but dont show them unless required.

Dragon Age also.


And although I couldn't find any screenshots, the armor in Dragon's Dogma is good too.
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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2012, 09:59:12 pm »
Dude, she is not a feminist fundie. Feminist fundies are like the ones on the mainpage right now who say that men are inherently evil. To my knowledge, this particular gamer has never said anything remotely similar to that.


And just because Kirk Cameron never said gays should be stoned doesn't mean he isn't a fundie. She said some very dumb things in the past and misrepresented some media in her reviews. She even held some double standards. She's a fundie, not as vile as radscum, but it suits her.

I'm not her follower and I'm not aware of everything she's ever said, but in this instance there is absolutely nothing she is doing that makes her a fundie. What I meant to say was that to the best of my knowledge, she is not a fundie. There is nothing she has said in the past that disproves the main facts of the matter: 1) that misogyny in gamer culture is rampant, 2) that female characters are dealt with poorly compared to male characters, and 3) that people are verbally attacking her for speaking her opinion.

Although I'd be interested in hearing what she's said that you consider indicative of "fundie feminism."
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Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2012, 10:17:47 pm »
Yes while some games are getting better the only ones I can think of that actually had good female armor was Skyrim devs it's not that hard when a female avatar equips the armor just add a sport for boobs but dont show them unless required.

Dragon Age also.


And although I couldn't find any screenshots, the armor in Dragon's Dogma is good too.
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Offline Patches

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2012, 10:36:45 pm »
This definitely doesn't show male gamers in a good light and it also plays right into her hand completely on what she is trying to prove.

Wait, so she's trying to prove that sexism is rampant in the gaming world, she receives a torrent of misogynistic comments from gamers, but rather than evidence for her position, this is just "playing into her hand"?

And seconded that while male characters also suffer from stereotyping, it's not the objectification sort of stereotyping like it is with women.  While some men may feel tired of always being represented as a hulky meat-head, I doubt any of them feel threatened by being represented as a hulky meat-head.

And, no, those representations of male characters are not fanservice for female gamers.  Some men really like to believe that women want bulky shirtless steroid-pushers, because it plays into what they want for themselves.  Unfortunately for them, female gamers tend to be more attracted to the pretty-boys with emotional trouble who they fantasize will run to them for comfort and are secretly very nurturing fellows.  But these male gamers scoff at women who fall all over the likes of the Kingdom Hearts guys because they're so "un-manly", and scorn women for being attracted to what they're naturally attracted to rather than the power-fantasy that men want them to be attracted to.

And I wish for the life of me I could find the comic I saw a while back discussing this same problem in superhero comics, with the guy claiming that male superheroes suffer the same sexism as females because they're all muscular guys in tight outfits, but the woman pointed out that those types of stereotypes are hardly sex objects for women, and to demonstrate drew a big-eyed, gentle, soft-skinned Batman to illustrate what women actually like.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2012, 10:48:20 pm »
No, I'm pretty sure that's objectification.

Really?  Let me break it down for you.

Male stereotypes in video games portray men as strong and dominant, capable of solving matters through a "If you only have a hammer" philosophy.  Aside from Kratos, most of these men are portrayed as being very justified in their actions.  And naturally, they attract women like flies to honey.  It tells men "You are strong, you have the power to solve everything, and women should flock to you.  You can be like this guy."  It tells women, "This should be your ideal, and you should love this guy."

Female stereotypes in video games portray women as weak and emotional, dressed up all pretty showing scantily clad skin or skin-tight tights.  They are relegated to a more defensive role, and "strong" women will get themselves in trouble or even get their people killed.  It tells men, "Women need you to solve their problems.  They can't do anything on their own.  And most importantly, they must look pretty for you."  It tells women, "You should be supportive, not a leader.  Your emotions make you prone to anger and irrational judgement.  You should either defend the ideal man, or you should stay back and support him from afar, while he gets all of the glory.  Also, be as pretty as possible, because you're meant to be his eyecandy."

Do you see the difference?

And before you point out Kratos, he's a deconstruction.  He's got the buffness and the "if you only have a hammer" philosophy, but he's portrayed as a vicious monster who clings to his tortured past.  Most of what he does is portrayed as wrong, even if you can justify it.  He is, I guess you could say, a flanderization of the machoist reality.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 10:56:38 pm by Zachski »
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Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2012, 11:33:32 pm »
No, I'm pretty sure that's objectification.

Really?  Let me break it down for you.

Male stereotypes in video games portray men as strong and dominant, capable of solving matters through a "If you only have a hammer" philosophy.  Aside from Kratos, most of these men are portrayed as being very justified in their actions.  And naturally, they attract women like flies to honey.  It tells men "You are strong, you have the power to solve everything, and women should flock to you.  You can be like this guy."  It tells women, "This should be your ideal, and you should love this guy."

Female stereotypes in video games portray women as weak and emotional, dressed up all pretty showing scantily clad skin or skin-tight tights.  They are relegated to a more defensive role, and "strong" women will get themselves in trouble or even get their people killed.  It tells men, "Women need you to solve their problems.  They can't do anything on their own.  And most importantly, they must look pretty for you."  It tells women, "You should be supportive, not a leader.  Your emotions make you prone to anger and irrational judgement.  You should either defend the ideal man, or you should stay back and support him from afar, while he gets all of the glory.  Also, be as pretty as possible, because you're meant to be his eyecandy."

Do you see the difference?

And before you point out Kratos, he's a deconstruction.  He's got the buffness and the "if you only have a hammer" philosophy, but he's portrayed as a vicious monster who clings to his tortured past.  Most of what he does is portrayed as wrong, even if you can justify it.  He is, I guess you could say, a flanderization of the machoist reality.
This is the one thing some JRPGs do better tehn western ones.  Some like Fire Emblem have teh women characters be equal to male ones.  Sometimes they end up better

Offline TheUnknown

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2012, 12:05:35 am »
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And, no, those representations of male characters are not fanservice for female gamers.  Some men really like to believe that women want bulky shirtless steroid-pushers, because it plays into what they want for themselves.  Unfortunately for them, female gamers tend to be more attracted to the pretty-boys with emotional trouble who they fantasize will run to them for comfort and are secretly very nurturing fellows.  But these male gamers scoff at women who fall all over the likes of the Kingdom Hearts guys because they're so "un-manly", and scorn women for being attracted to what they're naturally attracted to rather than the power-fantasy that men want them to be attracted to.

"And now you know what women want.  Woobies." - Nostalgia Chick

But yeah, I heard that many people are starting to dislike Metroid and Samus, especially with Other M, due to her design and characterization becoming more like the common female game character (i.e. sexy, seems badass, but still needs help from the guy).  I haven't played Other M, but from what I heard, they made Samus into someone who doesn't shut up, whines and cries a lot, and instead of finding her own upgrades, has to get permission from The Man (both literally and figuratively) to power up her armor.  Here's an opinion piece from IGN about it: http://wii.ign.com/articles/112/1122068p1.html

Off the top off my head, I can't think of many female protagonists that weren't designed to be sexy, or at least have a reasonable breast size.  I know Iji (from the indie game of the same name) was made specifically to be plain (unkempt brown hair, very flat chest, very tall), and I heard that Jade from Beyond Good and Evil was pretty good at not being just another piece of eye candy.

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2012, 12:08:56 am »
No, I'm pretty sure that's objectification.

Really?  Let me break it down for you.

Male stereotypes in video games portray men as strong and dominant, capable of solving matters through a "If you only have a hammer" philosophy.  Aside from Kratos, most of these men are portrayed as being very justified in their actions.  And naturally, they attract women like flies to honey.  It tells men "You are strong, you have the power to solve everything, and women should flock to you.  You can be like this guy."  It tells women, "This should be your ideal, and you should love this guy."

Female stereotypes in video games portray women as weak and emotional, dressed up all pretty showing scantily clad skin or skin-tight tights.  They are relegated to a more defensive role, and "strong" women will get themselves in trouble or even get their people killed.  It tells men, "Women need you to solve their problems.  They can't do anything on their own.  And most importantly, they must look pretty for you."  It tells women, "You should be supportive, not a leader.  Your emotions make you prone to anger and irrational judgement.  You should either defend the ideal man, or you should stay back and support him from afar, while he gets all of the glory.  Also, be as pretty as possible, because you're meant to be his eyecandy."

Do you see the difference?

And before you point out Kratos, he's a deconstruction.  He's got the buffness and the "if you only have a hammer" philosophy, but he's portrayed as a vicious monster who clings to his tortured past.  Most of what he does is portrayed as wrong, even if you can justify it.  He is, I guess you could say, a flanderization of the machoist reality.

I'm not much of a video gamer, so I don't really know what roles females play. The complaint I get from MMORPGS is that the female PCs armor is much more revealing, but they all have the same stats. But I play ftp Runescape where they don't have that problem.

It's still objectification. It makes the men seem like tools used to fight monsters, and if you die, that's because you were too weak. Plus the ones in the pictures were also scantly-clad.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2012, 12:15:53 am »
It's still objectification. It makes the men seem like tools used to fight monsters, and if you die, that's because you were too weak.

Isn't the bolded part true of... like... every combat video game that has ever existed? It does not matter if the character is male or female. If you are not skilled enough to defeat the enemies, or at least survive, then you die.

Plus the ones in the pictures were also scantly-clad.

Which pictures?
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Offline largeham

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2012, 12:27:22 am »
Who perpetrates these images? And what do they show? That men are the stronger/better/whathaveyou sex. Oh wait...

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Offline Cataclysm

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2012, 12:54:07 am »
It's still objectification. It makes the men seem like tools used to fight monsters, and if you die, that's because you were too weak.

Isn't the bolded part true of... like... every combat video game that has ever existed? It does not matter if the character is male or female. If you are not skilled enough to defeat the enemies, or at least survive, then you die.


But Zackski's comment implied that the women in the same video games had more protection, and weren't expected to go into combat roles.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Offline Fpqxz

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Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2012, 01:02:02 am »
First of all, this topic probably belongs under "Entertainment" and not "Politics and Government".

Secondly, is this really happening?  A feminist analysis of fucking video games?  They're a mass-market consumer product.  Of course there are going to be sexist stereotypes.  Hyper-masculine men and hyper-feminine women are obvious exaggerations; they are fantasy and escapism.  Fantasy and escapism are what sells.

As far as the trolling and abuses against female gamers (and just about everyone else) on XBox Live, Playstation Network, and other multiplayer gaming environments...yes, it is ungentlemanly and unfortunate.  It shouldn't be happening, and yet people (especially teenage boys/young men) behave this way because they know that they can.  There are few serious repercussions, legal or otherwise, and most of these guys have little to lose anyway.  That is another problem that will continue until it becomes profitable for the operators of these networks to stop it, or until the government starts more closely regulating online gameplay (though I am not convinced that the latter would necessarily be a great option).

And people wonder why I don't involve myself with this shit...
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 01:04:00 am by Fpqxz »
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