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Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: CaseAgainstFaith on June 12, 2012, 06:17:16 pm

Title: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: CaseAgainstFaith on June 12, 2012, 06:17:16 pm
Here is a very small sample of the harassment I deal with for daring to criticize sexism in video games. Keep in mind that all this is in response to my Kickstarter project for a video series called Tropes vs. Women in Video Games (which I have not even made yet). These are the types of silencing tactics often used against women on the internet who dare to speak up.

In addition to the torrent of misogyny and hate left on my YouTube video (see below) the intimidation effort has also included repeated vandalizing of the Wikipedia page about me (with porn), organized efforts to flag my YouTube videos as “terrorism”, as well as many threatening messages sent through Twitter, Facebook, Kickstarter, email and my own website.  These messages and comments have included everything from the typical sandwich and kitchen “jokes” to threats of violence, death, sexual assault and rape.  All that plus an organized attempt to report this project to Kickstarter and get it banned or defunded.
http://www.feministfrequency.com/2012/06/harassment-misogyny-and-silencing-on-youtube/ (http://www.feministfrequency.com/2012/06/harassment-misogyny-and-silencing-on-youtube/)

Link to screen shot of all the hate (it is HUGE picture) - http://www.feministfrequency.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/YouTube_Harassment2-2hour.jpg (http://www.feministfrequency.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/YouTube_Harassment2-2hour.jpg)

Most of it is (no surprise here) a troll fest that has been linked to have started at 4chan.  While I think it is just a nutty feminist speaking out and doesn't deserve the attention she is getting at the same time of course doesn't deserve death threats and all the hate either. 

This definitely doesn't show male gamers in a good light and it also plays right into her hand completely on what she is trying to prove.  Nice job 4chan.

--if put in wrong section feel free to move it.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on June 12, 2012, 06:33:43 pm
Dude, she is not a feminist fundie. Feminist fundies are like the ones on the mainpage right now who say that men are inherently evil. To my knowledge, this particular gamer has never said anything remotely similar to that. She is simply discussing the sexism in the video game industry and in gamer culture, which I (a "gamer chick") think is a serious issue that does need to be addressed.

She brought up a good point though that it's interesting that this is the knee-jerk response she is faced with for even saying that she plans to tackle the sexism in the gamer subculture. Female gamers are a growing demographic in the video game community, but it is still very much dominated by sexism.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: CaseAgainstFaith on June 12, 2012, 06:41:08 pm
Dude, she is not a feminist fundie. Feminist fundies are like the ones on the mainpage right now who say that men are inherently evil. To my knowledge, this particular gamer has never said anything remotely similar to that. She is simply discussing the sexism in the video game industry and in gamer culture, which I (a "gamer chick") think is a serious issue that does need to be addressed.

She brought up a good point though that it's interesting that this is the knee-jerk response she is faced with for even saying that she plans to tackle the sexism in the gamer subculture. Female gamers are a growing demographic in the video game community, but it is still very much dominated by sexism.

Sexism is rampant on both sides but you don't see us guys bitching do you? I sure as hell don't look like no Dante (see Dante's inferno) or any other super steroided mongloid.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: ironbite on June 12, 2012, 07:20:47 pm
I'm not gonna dignify your opinion of what lable this young lady should fall under.  BTW...you're wrong.

What I will talk about is the stupidity of this whole situation.  Really guys?  You're gonna go through all this to troll and prove her right?  Are you really this stupid?

Ironbite-morons.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on June 12, 2012, 07:33:19 pm
Dude, she is not a feminist fundie. Feminist fundies are like the ones on the mainpage right now who say that men are inherently evil. To my knowledge, this particular gamer has never said anything remotely similar to that. She is simply discussing the sexism in the video game industry and in gamer culture, which I (a "gamer chick") think is a serious issue that does need to be addressed.

She brought up a good point though that it's interesting that this is the knee-jerk response she is faced with for even saying that she plans to tackle the sexism in the gamer subculture. Female gamers are a growing demographic in the video game community, but it is still very much dominated by sexism.

Sexism is rampant on both sides but you don't see us guys bitching do you? I sure as hell don't look like no Dante (see Dante's inferno) or any other super steroided mongloid.

In the gamer community, sexism is overwhelmingly the of the misogynistic kind. There is a reason why women do not play with female avatars in many MMORPGs - it is the rampant sexism that makes some men think they have the right to sexually harass players simply because they are women, and then get pissy when they are called out on being assholes. I am not discounting the fact that male characters in video games tend to face their own set of problems, but if a man were making a video about how to write better male characters, he would not be facing anywhere near this vicious torrent of criticism. Compared to male characters, female characters are overwhelmingly cliched and reek of sexism. They are not original characters, they are same stereotypes and roles repeated over and over again. The fact is that game writers today simply do not know how to write female characters as well as they write male characters, and as a result they tend to stray towards gender roles, stereotypes, and blatant objectification of women.

I'm not gonna dignify your opinion of what lable this young lady should fall under.  BTW...you're wrong.

What I will talk about is the stupidity of this whole situation.  Really guys?  You're gonna go through all this to troll and prove her right?  Are you really this stupid?

Ironbite-morons.

Seeing as there are some people who have donated to her cause simply because of the abuse she is facing, the trolls' campaign has definitely been counterproductive and a completely idiotic waste of time.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Art Vandelay on June 12, 2012, 07:38:01 pm
I feel that this (http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/harassment) is relevant to the discussion. It's no wonder female characters in games are usually little more than a set of tits when the market is this pants-on-head fucking stupid.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: largeham on June 12, 2012, 07:57:44 pm
Sexism is rampant on both sides but you don't see us guys bitching do you? I sure as hell don't look like no Dante (see Dante's inferno) or any other super steroided mongloid.

Orly? Since when do males get the same amount of hate and misandry against them that women do in online games?
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: ThunderWulf on June 12, 2012, 08:03:11 pm
Sexism is rampant on both sides but you don't see us guys bitching do you? I sure as hell don't look like no Dante (see Dante's inferno) or any other super steroided mongloid.

Orly? Since when do males get the same amount of hate and misandry against them that women do in online games?

Though I do agree that there is a lot of one sided misogyny, I believe he's talking about how men are also stereotyped in games often as muscle bound meatheads.

Don't get me wrong, I think all of this needs to stop as a whole, especially how the trolls of the gamer community treat women online.

I feel that this (http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/harassment) is relevant to the discussion. It's no wonder female characters in games are usually little more than a set of tits when the market is this pants-on-head fucking stupid.

I do REALLY like the idea of the auto-mute and the guild rating systems.  Like A LOT.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: CaseAgainstFaith on June 12, 2012, 08:08:40 pm
Just to clarify where I stand

First off ironbite ya fundie might of went to far as per my title but to be truthfully honest I didn't create the title I stole it from another gaming news website before getting pointed to the website this girl runs and forget to change it in haste.

2nd as I stated in the OP I don't think this warrants all the crap and hate she is getting.  But also the fact that she is wearing the feminist banner doesn't help her cause either.  If I was her I would of dropped the whole feminist act and just stated the main point - female gamer sexism -.

3rd Yes its quite evident sexism is rampant.  She doesn't need to do a kickstarter and ask for money (especially 6,000 dollars) for something that is widely known and has been covered before like the penny arcade that was posted.  This could easily of been done without asking for money just simply hitting the internet for 5-15 minutes.

I blame the parents more than anything though.  While obviously I don't have any hard statistics to back this up, but coming from playing CoD since WaW on XBL, I've noticed most of the sexism at least in the CoD world come from kids that shouldn't even be playing the game to begin with.  Now I am not saying older guys are innocent by any means.  I just notice that a very big percentage though was from the 14 years old and younger males.

But aside from the sexism coming from the multiplayer crowd I don't see the problem.

Sexism as far as the character models themselves exist on both sides. In fact I never saw it as a problem, I figured the overly sexualized females was fan service for the males and the overly alphamale sexualized males were for the females and don't see the problem there.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Art Vandelay on June 12, 2012, 08:16:36 pm
might of
would of
could easily of
Have, idiot. The word is HAVE. If you want to be taken seriously then don't type like a fucking moron.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on June 12, 2012, 08:23:19 pm
2nd as I stated in the OP I don't think this warrants all the crap and hate she is getting.  But also the fact that she is wearing the feminist banner doesn't help her cause either.  If I was her I would of dropped the whole feminist act and just stated the main point - female gamer sexism -.

Misogyny is a feminist issue. She should not have to apologize for labeling herself a feminist; it fits her and her views perfectly. If anything, an increase in vocal feminists can help move people away from the stereotype of the hairy-legged humorless feminazi. Even if she doesn't label herself publicly as a feminist, sooner or later the trolls will still call her one, except this time as an insult.

3rd Yes its quite evident sexism is rampant.  She doesn't need to do a kickstarter and ask for money (especially 6,000 dollars) for something that is widely known and has been covered before like the penny arcade that was posted.  This could easily of been done without asking for money just simply hitting the internet for 5-15 minutes.

She intends to do in-depth explorations of tropes of female video game characters. This is not something that can be covered in a short episode with a sped-up voice. This is also not her first project; she has done professional-quality projects before that have been influential for other writers, and she wants to maintain that quality here.

Quote
But aside from the sexism coming from the multiplayer crowd I don't see the problem.

This is why the videos are necessary. Male gamers don't always pick up on this stuff, but the messages are extremely obvious to women. In video games, women are typically prizes or sex objects (often both), and are objectified without being given the same sort of character depth frequently awarded to male characters.

Sexism as far as the character models themselves exist on both sides. In fact I never saw it as a problem, I figured the overly sexualized females was fan service for the males and the overly alphamale sexualized males were for the females and don't see the problem there.

I don't care if the models are "pretty" (you're going to be looking at them a lot, so they might as well be easy on the eyes), but there is a clear problem in your average fantasy RPG when male warriors are always covered in legitimate armor like this

(http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/attachments/dat-image-rendering/22626d1158179816-hume-male-odin-armor-modelviewer.jpg)

Yet time and time again, women are shown in skimpy chainmail bikinis that have no other purpose than to objectify and sexualize them. (Having a breastplate that contours the shape of a woman's breasts would actually be dangerous to the wearer, because if struck it could break the sternum.)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hLkgswP1Xv0/R6ckIANTkNI/AAAAAAAAAfo/9mkbUURGfAg/s400/fantasyarmor.png)
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Murdin on June 12, 2012, 08:28:28 pm
Sexism is rampant on both sides but you don't see us guys bitching do you? I sure as hell don't look like no Dante (see Dante's inferno) or any other super steroided mongloid.
Yes. Yes, we do see more and more guys bitching about how "neglected" and "disrespected" their preferences are when a few high-profile games does not pander to them explicitly. Claiming that the macho, muscle-bound protagonists that make them feel inadequate are targeted to females, when in fact they cater to a very male power fantasy. Insulting everyone that dares suggest there may too much oversexualized females in their favorite games. And of course, claiming that all "guys", or "straight male gamers" (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6661775&lf=8) as it is sometimes termed, are on their side in the culture war against feminazism.

There's for your claims of misandry in video games. As for the reality of misogyny, I don't think I have anything to add that hasn't already been said.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: ThunderWulf on June 12, 2012, 08:28:49 pm
I do mostly agree with you Wykked, BUT with the last point with the armor, a whole load of western rpgs have been majorly shying away from the "bikini armor" thing.  And most of the games you do find it in now are either slapstick or put in with mods (like mods like this (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=7940) for games like Skyrim).
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: CaseAgainstFaith on June 12, 2012, 08:29:45 pm
Males also fall into a similar stereotype as well
http://image.naldzgraphics.net/2011/02/6-God-of-War-III-Kratos.jpg (http://image.naldzgraphics.net/2011/02/6-God-of-War-III-Kratos.jpg)
http://mimg.ugo.com/201002/36790/dantes-inferno-toy.jpg (http://mimg.ugo.com/201002/36790/dantes-inferno-toy.jpg)
http://gaygamer.net/images/379.jpg (http://gaygamer.net/images/379.jpg)

Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Witchyjoshy on June 12, 2012, 08:51:15 pm
Males also fall into a similar stereotype as well
http://image.naldzgraphics.net/2011/02/6-God-of-War-III-Kratos.jpg (http://image.naldzgraphics.net/2011/02/6-God-of-War-III-Kratos.jpg)
http://mimg.ugo.com/201002/36790/dantes-inferno-toy.jpg (http://mimg.ugo.com/201002/36790/dantes-inferno-toy.jpg)
http://gaygamer.net/images/379.jpg (http://gaygamer.net/images/379.jpg)



And yet these stereotypes don't objectify men, they empower them.  Even that last one, who is more buff than most men I've met.

Meanwhile, female stereotypes rarely serve to empower, mostly to objectify.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: VirtualStranger on June 12, 2012, 09:00:00 pm
Here's a link to the Kickstarter that started this whole business.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games)

I'm curious as to why she needs $6000 to do something that she's been doing for free for a while now, but I'm not too particularly concerned about it.

I've been hanging around 4chan quite a bit lately (mostly browsing Legend of Korra threads on /co/) and this story has popped up there a lot lately.

Anyway, here's a nice screencap I just took from /v/.

(http://i.imgur.com/dfZdK.png)

Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Cataclysm on June 12, 2012, 09:15:45 pm
Dude, she is not a feminist fundie. Feminist fundies are like the ones on the mainpage right now who say that men are inherently evil. To my knowledge, this particular gamer has never said anything remotely similar to that.


And just because Kirk Cameron never said gays should be stoned doesn't mean he isn't a fundie. She said some very dumb things in the past and misrepresented some media in her reviews. She even held some double standards. She's a fundie, not as vile as radscum, but it suits her.

Males also fall into a similar stereotype as well
http://image.naldzgraphics.net/2011/02/6-God-of-War-III-Kratos.jpg (http://image.naldzgraphics.net/2011/02/6-God-of-War-III-Kratos.jpg)
http://mimg.ugo.com/201002/36790/dantes-inferno-toy.jpg (http://mimg.ugo.com/201002/36790/dantes-inferno-toy.jpg)
http://gaygamer.net/images/379.jpg (http://gaygamer.net/images/379.jpg)



And yet these stereotypes don't objectify men, they empower them.  Even that last one, who is more buff than most men I've met.


No, I'm pretty sure that's objectification.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: kefkaownsall on June 12, 2012, 09:29:07 pm
2nd as I stated in the OP I don't think this warrants all the crap and hate she is getting.  But also the fact that she is wearing the feminist banner doesn't help her cause either.  If I was her I would of dropped the whole feminist act and just stated the main point - female gamer sexism -.

Misogyny is a feminist issue. She should not have to apologize for labeling herself a feminist; it fits her and her views perfectly. If anything, an increase in vocal feminists can help move people away from the stereotype of the hairy-legged humorless feminazi. Even if she doesn't label herself publicly as a feminist, sooner or later the trolls will still call her one, except this time as an insult.

3rd Yes its quite evident sexism is rampant.  She doesn't need to do a kickstarter and ask for money (especially 6,000 dollars) for something that is widely known and has been covered before like the penny arcade that was posted.  This could easily of been done without asking for money just simply hitting the internet for 5-15 minutes.

She intends to do in-depth explorations of tropes of female video game characters. This is not something that can be covered in a short episode with a sped-up voice. This is also not her first project; she has done professional-quality projects before that have been influential for other writers, and she wants to maintain that quality here.

Quote
But aside from the sexism coming from the multiplayer crowd I don't see the problem.

This is why the videos are necessary. Male gamers don't always pick up on this stuff, but the messages are extremely obvious to women. In video games, women are typically prizes or sex objects (often both), and are objectified without being given the same sort of character depth frequently awarded to male characters.

Sexism as far as the character models themselves exist on both sides. In fact I never saw it as a problem, I figured the overly sexualized females was fan service for the males and the overly alphamale sexualized males were for the females and don't see the problem there.

I don't care if the models are "pretty" (you're going to be looking at them a lot, so they might as well be easy on the eyes), but there is a clear problem in your average fantasy RPG when male warriors are always covered in legitimate armor like this

(http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/attachments/dat-image-rendering/22626d1158179816-hume-male-odin-armor-modelviewer.jpg)

Yet time and time again, women are shown in skimpy chainmail bikinis that have no other purpose than to objectify and sexualize them. (Having a breastplate that contours the shape of a woman's breasts would actually be dangerous to the wearer, because if struck it could break the sternum.)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hLkgswP1Xv0/R6ckIANTkNI/AAAAAAAAAfo/9mkbUURGfAg/s400/fantasyarmor.png)
Yes while some games are getting better the only ones I can think of that actually had good female armor was Skyrim devs it's not that hard when a female avatar equips the armor just add a sport for boobs but dont show them unless required.  As for harassment honestly it all goes back to the patriachy I was forced in 8th grade by friends to play a male character but that is stil the idea of gender roles
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: ThunderWulf on June 12, 2012, 09:47:29 pm
Yes while some games are getting better the only ones I can think of that actually had good female armor was Skyrim devs it's not that hard when a female avatar equips the armor just add a sport for boobs but dont show them unless required.

Dragon Age also.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb57/Jonas64/DragonAgescreen.jpg)

And although I couldn't find any screenshots, the armor in Dragon's Dogma is good too.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on June 12, 2012, 09:59:12 pm
Dude, she is not a feminist fundie. Feminist fundies are like the ones on the mainpage right now who say that men are inherently evil. To my knowledge, this particular gamer has never said anything remotely similar to that.


And just because Kirk Cameron never said gays should be stoned doesn't mean he isn't a fundie. She said some very dumb things in the past and misrepresented some media in her reviews. She even held some double standards. She's a fundie, not as vile as radscum, but it suits her.

I'm not her follower and I'm not aware of everything she's ever said, but in this instance there is absolutely nothing she is doing that makes her a fundie. What I meant to say was that to the best of my knowledge, she is not a fundie. There is nothing she has said in the past that disproves the main facts of the matter: 1) that misogyny in gamer culture is rampant, 2) that female characters are dealt with poorly compared to male characters, and 3) that people are verbally attacking her for speaking her opinion.

Although I'd be interested in hearing what she's said that you consider indicative of "fundie feminism."
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: kefkaownsall on June 12, 2012, 10:17:47 pm
Yes while some games are getting better the only ones I can think of that actually had good female armor was Skyrim devs it's not that hard when a female avatar equips the armor just add a sport for boobs but dont show them unless required.

Dragon Age also.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb57/Jonas64/DragonAgescreen.jpg)

And although I couldn't find any screenshots, the armor in Dragon's Dogma is good too.
Morrigans default also Isabella.  Oddly enouh Ar Tonelico did it a bit better at least 2 by playing it completely straight and being tounge in cheek. 
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Patches on June 12, 2012, 10:36:45 pm
This definitely doesn't show male gamers in a good light and it also plays right into her hand completely on what she is trying to prove.

Wait, so she's trying to prove that sexism is rampant in the gaming world, she receives a torrent of misogynistic comments from gamers, but rather than evidence for her position, this is just "playing into her hand"?

And seconded that while male characters also suffer from stereotyping, it's not the objectification sort of stereotyping like it is with women.  While some men may feel tired of always being represented as a hulky meat-head, I doubt any of them feel threatened by being represented as a hulky meat-head.

And, no, those representations of male characters are not fanservice for female gamers.  Some men really like to believe that women want bulky shirtless steroid-pushers, because it plays into what they want for themselves.  Unfortunately for them, female gamers tend to be more attracted to the pretty-boys with emotional trouble who they fantasize will run to them for comfort and are secretly very nurturing fellows.  But these male gamers scoff at women who fall all over the likes of the Kingdom Hearts guys because they're so "un-manly", and scorn women for being attracted to what they're naturally attracted to rather than the power-fantasy that men want them to be attracted to.

And I wish for the life of me I could find the comic I saw a while back discussing this same problem in superhero comics, with the guy claiming that male superheroes suffer the same sexism as females because they're all muscular guys in tight outfits, but the woman pointed out that those types of stereotypes are hardly sex objects for women, and to demonstrate drew a big-eyed, gentle, soft-skinned Batman to illustrate what women actually like.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Witchyjoshy on June 12, 2012, 10:48:20 pm
No, I'm pretty sure that's objectification.

Really?  Let me break it down for you.

Male stereotypes in video games portray men as strong and dominant, capable of solving matters through a "If you only have a hammer" philosophy.  Aside from Kratos, most of these men are portrayed as being very justified in their actions.  And naturally, they attract women like flies to honey.  It tells men "You are strong, you have the power to solve everything, and women should flock to you.  You can be like this guy."  It tells women, "This should be your ideal, and you should love this guy."

Female stereotypes in video games portray women as weak and emotional, dressed up all pretty showing scantily clad skin or skin-tight tights.  They are relegated to a more defensive role, and "strong" women will get themselves in trouble or even get their people killed.  It tells men, "Women need you to solve their problems.  They can't do anything on their own.  And most importantly, they must look pretty for you."  It tells women, "You should be supportive, not a leader.  Your emotions make you prone to anger and irrational judgement.  You should either defend the ideal man, or you should stay back and support him from afar, while he gets all of the glory.  Also, be as pretty as possible, because you're meant to be his eyecandy."

Do you see the difference?

And before you point out Kratos, he's a deconstruction.  He's got the buffness and the "if you only have a hammer" philosophy, but he's portrayed as a vicious monster who clings to his tortured past.  Most of what he does is portrayed as wrong, even if you can justify it.  He is, I guess you could say, a flanderization of the machoist reality.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: kefkaownsall on June 12, 2012, 11:33:32 pm
No, I'm pretty sure that's objectification.

Really?  Let me break it down for you.

Male stereotypes in video games portray men as strong and dominant, capable of solving matters through a "If you only have a hammer" philosophy.  Aside from Kratos, most of these men are portrayed as being very justified in their actions.  And naturally, they attract women like flies to honey.  It tells men "You are strong, you have the power to solve everything, and women should flock to you.  You can be like this guy."  It tells women, "This should be your ideal, and you should love this guy."

Female stereotypes in video games portray women as weak and emotional, dressed up all pretty showing scantily clad skin or skin-tight tights.  They are relegated to a more defensive role, and "strong" women will get themselves in trouble or even get their people killed.  It tells men, "Women need you to solve their problems.  They can't do anything on their own.  And most importantly, they must look pretty for you."  It tells women, "You should be supportive, not a leader.  Your emotions make you prone to anger and irrational judgement.  You should either defend the ideal man, or you should stay back and support him from afar, while he gets all of the glory.  Also, be as pretty as possible, because you're meant to be his eyecandy."

Do you see the difference?

And before you point out Kratos, he's a deconstruction.  He's got the buffness and the "if you only have a hammer" philosophy, but he's portrayed as a vicious monster who clings to his tortured past.  Most of what he does is portrayed as wrong, even if you can justify it.  He is, I guess you could say, a flanderization of the machoist reality.
This is the one thing some JRPGs do better tehn western ones.  Some like Fire Emblem have teh women characters be equal to male ones.  Sometimes they end up better
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: TheUnknown on June 13, 2012, 12:05:35 am
Quote
And, no, those representations of male characters are not fanservice for female gamers.  Some men really like to believe that women want bulky shirtless steroid-pushers, because it plays into what they want for themselves.  Unfortunately for them, female gamers tend to be more attracted to the pretty-boys with emotional trouble who they fantasize will run to them for comfort and are secretly very nurturing fellows.  But these male gamers scoff at women who fall all over the likes of the Kingdom Hearts guys because they're so "un-manly", and scorn women for being attracted to what they're naturally attracted to rather than the power-fantasy that men want them to be attracted to.

"And now you know what women want.  Woobies." - Nostalgia Chick

But yeah, I heard that many people are starting to dislike Metroid and Samus, especially with Other M, due to her design and characterization becoming more like the common female game character (i.e. sexy, seems badass, but still needs help from the guy).  I haven't played Other M, but from what I heard, they made Samus into someone who doesn't shut up, whines and cries a lot, and instead of finding her own upgrades, has to get permission from The Man (both literally and figuratively) to power up her armor.  Here's an opinion piece from IGN about it: http://wii.ign.com/articles/112/1122068p1.html (http://wii.ign.com/articles/112/1122068p1.html)

Off the top off my head, I can't think of many female protagonists that weren't designed to be sexy, or at least have a reasonable breast size.  I know Iji (from the indie game of the same name) was made specifically to be plain (unkempt brown hair, very flat chest, very tall), and I heard that Jade from Beyond Good and Evil was pretty good at not being just another piece of eye candy.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Cataclysm on June 13, 2012, 12:08:56 am
No, I'm pretty sure that's objectification.

Really?  Let me break it down for you.

Male stereotypes in video games portray men as strong and dominant, capable of solving matters through a "If you only have a hammer" philosophy.  Aside from Kratos, most of these men are portrayed as being very justified in their actions.  And naturally, they attract women like flies to honey.  It tells men "You are strong, you have the power to solve everything, and women should flock to you.  You can be like this guy."  It tells women, "This should be your ideal, and you should love this guy."

Female stereotypes in video games portray women as weak and emotional, dressed up all pretty showing scantily clad skin or skin-tight tights.  They are relegated to a more defensive role, and "strong" women will get themselves in trouble or even get their people killed.  It tells men, "Women need you to solve their problems.  They can't do anything on their own.  And most importantly, they must look pretty for you."  It tells women, "You should be supportive, not a leader.  Your emotions make you prone to anger and irrational judgement.  You should either defend the ideal man, or you should stay back and support him from afar, while he gets all of the glory.  Also, be as pretty as possible, because you're meant to be his eyecandy."

Do you see the difference?

And before you point out Kratos, he's a deconstruction.  He's got the buffness and the "if you only have a hammer" philosophy, but he's portrayed as a vicious monster who clings to his tortured past.  Most of what he does is portrayed as wrong, even if you can justify it.  He is, I guess you could say, a flanderization of the machoist reality.

I'm not much of a video gamer, so I don't really know what roles females play. The complaint I get from MMORPGS is that the female PCs armor is much more revealing, but they all have the same stats. But I play ftp Runescape where they don't have that problem.

It's still objectification. It makes the men seem like tools used to fight monsters, and if you die, that's because you were too weak. Plus the ones in the pictures were also scantly-clad.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on June 13, 2012, 12:15:53 am
It's still objectification. It makes the men seem like tools used to fight monsters, and if you die, that's because you were too weak.

Isn't the bolded part true of... like... every combat video game that has ever existed? It does not matter if the character is male or female. If you are not skilled enough to defeat the enemies, or at least survive, then you die.

Plus the ones in the pictures were also scantly-clad.

Which pictures?
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: largeham on June 13, 2012, 12:27:22 am
Who perpetrates these images? And what do they show? That men are the stronger/better/whathaveyou sex. Oh wait...
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Cataclysm on June 13, 2012, 12:54:07 am
It's still objectification. It makes the men seem like tools used to fight monsters, and if you die, that's because you were too weak.

Isn't the bolded part true of... like... every combat video game that has ever existed? It does not matter if the character is male or female. If you are not skilled enough to defeat the enemies, or at least survive, then you die.


But Zackski's comment implied that the women in the same video games had more protection, and weren't expected to go into combat roles.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Fpqxz on June 13, 2012, 01:02:02 am
First of all, this topic probably belongs under "Entertainment" and not "Politics and Government".

Secondly, is this really happening?  A feminist analysis of fucking video games?  They're a mass-market consumer product.  Of course there are going to be sexist stereotypes.  Hyper-masculine men and hyper-feminine women are obvious exaggerations; they are fantasy and escapism.  Fantasy and escapism are what sells.

As far as the trolling and abuses against female gamers (and just about everyone else) on XBox Live, Playstation Network, and other multiplayer gaming environments...yes, it is ungentlemanly and unfortunate.  It shouldn't be happening, and yet people (especially teenage boys/young men) behave this way because they know that they can.  There are few serious repercussions, legal or otherwise, and most of these guys have little to lose anyway.  That is another problem that will continue until it becomes profitable for the operators of these networks to stop it, or until the government starts more closely regulating online gameplay (though I am not convinced that the latter would necessarily be a great option).

And people wonder why I don't involve myself with this shit...
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Cataclysm on June 13, 2012, 01:12:51 am
Secondly, is this really happening?  A feminist analysis of fucking video games?  They're a mass-market consumer product.  Of course there are going to be sexist stereotypes.  Hyper-masculine men and hyper-feminine women are obvious exaggerations; they are fantasy and escapism.  Fantasy and escapism are what sells.


So? That doesn't mean it's a good thing and should be pointed out and examined. Although FF would hardly be my choice to do such thing...
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Morgenleoht on June 13, 2012, 01:13:01 am
....

Fpqxz, you might consider it a waste of time, but as a female gamer who's done cultural studies, I find this sort of stuff interesting. Guess what I want to do in the next ten years - I want to study the intersection of autism and internet pop culture as personified by Christian Weston Chandler, a.k.a. Chris-Chan/Sonichu, for my PhD... Because I'm autistic and I <3 the internet. Is that a waste of time? To you, maybe, but not to me.

It's this sort of study which can lead to changing attitudes...

BTW, I love Dragon Age and its treatment of metal armours. The leather stuff is... fetishist... on both genders... You should see the Chasind robes on either male or female... LOL.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Art Vandelay on June 13, 2012, 01:33:17 am
Secondly, is this really happening?  A feminist analysis of fucking video games?  They're a mass-market consumer product.  Of course there are going to be sexist stereotypes.  Hyper-masculine men and hyper-feminine women are obvious exaggerations; they are fantasy and escapism.  Fantasy and escapism are what sells.
Look at it this way, if your hobby of choice was dominated by moronic dumbfucks that not only could spew their verbal shit as much as they liked with absolutely no consequences, but also made up the majority of the market, then you'd no doubt welcome any serious effort to reverse this trend, right? That's exactly what's happening here. This girl's just trying to send a message to the games industry that she and a lot of others (considering her kickstarter ended up raising more than 10 times the intended amount) in fact do not want the games they're producing and want more regulation of online communities. In a nutshell, it's just consumers telling business what they want.

EDIT: Yay for brainfarts.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Fpqxz on June 13, 2012, 01:44:17 am
Look at it this way, if your hobby of choice was dominated by moronic dumbfucks that not only could spew their verbal shit as much as they liked with absolutely no consequences, but also made up the majority of the market, then you'd no doubt welcome any serious effort to reverse this trend, right? That's exactly what's happening here. This girl's just trying to send a message to the games industry that she and a lot of others (considering her kickstarter ended up raising more than 10 times the intended amount) in fact do not want the games they're producing are not what a good chunk of the market wants. In a nutshell, it's just consumers telling business what they want.

Well, in that case, I wish her the best of luck in her endeavors.  What more can I really say?   :-\
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: syaoranvee on June 13, 2012, 01:47:34 am
Quote
That is another problem that will continue until it becomes profitable for the operators of these networks to stop it, or until the government starts more closely regulating online gameplay (though I am not convinced that the latter would necessarily be a great option).

Like I said in the chat,  I'd love for there to be a law for online gaming similar to the laws which only allow a kid to buy a M rated game if an adult is there.  Make it like Second Life where you either need payment info or a age authenticator done by you or your parent.

Quite frankly, alot of these comments are done by kids who don't even know how to talk to girls in real life let alone on the internet and need to learn social skills.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 13, 2012, 02:25:24 am
...I stated in the OP I don't think this warrants all the crap and hate she is getting.  But also the fact that she is wearing the feminist banner doesn't help her cause either.  If I was her I would of dropped the whole feminist act and just stated the main point - female gamer sexism -.

Can't see how being a feminist hurts someones credentials if they want to speak out against sexism.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Sylvana on June 13, 2012, 03:32:57 am
Like I said in the chat,  I'd love for there to be a law for online gaming similar to the laws which only allow a kid to buy a M rated game if an adult is there.  Make it like Second Life where you either need payment info or a age authenticator done by you or your parent.

The thing is, most stores are actually required often by law to not sell age inappropriate games to children. The unfortunate part is that most of the time adults buy the games, and the kids just get to play them. A store clerk cannot stop an adult from purchasing an M rated game. Unfortunately many parents ask what is popular and are generally pointed towards the more mature stuff, which they then buy, for their children.

The issue of sexism in video games is very real though, yes it is there on both sides but women are disproportionately affected. There have been a number of times while playing games I have been made uncomfortable with how the women characters are portrayed. Also finding a real strong lead female character is really rare. I have seen some but most are these gratuitous bad girl women who flaunt their sexuality, which to me is really not a strong female lead. So many lack and depth of character.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Patches on June 13, 2012, 07:25:10 am
For an example of a positive female lead in gaming, I think I'd go with Terra from Final Fantasy 6.  No, she's not a strong, tsundere badass, but that's the point.  That a female character can still be decidedly feminine yet avoid being relegated to an "object" status.

Terra starts the game very meek and unsure of herself and is more or less the McGuffin of the first act.  Most of the male characters rally around her to White Knight her, and all they get from it is her appreciation.  And they're fine with that.  The game revolves around her growing more confident in herself and finding her place in the world, rather than stunting her character development by attaching her to a man and deferring all the difficult decisions to him.  She finally finds some orphaned children who giver her purpose and confidence, and through her own will becomes more powerful in order to protect them.

So, I don't think the problem is that women need to be depicted as stronger in games, they simply need to be depicted as people rather than accessories.  I don't mind if they're weak, timid, and pretty as long as they have strong characterization and motives backing them up.  They can love a male character so long as that love doesn't cause them to lose their self-identity.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Saturn500 on June 13, 2012, 10:19:41 am
Interview:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/from-samus-to-lara-an-interview-with-anita-sarkeesian-of-feminist-frequency-6382189/?tag=Topslot%3bFromSamusToLara%3bFromSamusToLara (http://www.gamespot.com/features/from-samus-to-lara-an-interview-with-anita-sarkeesian-of-feminist-frequency-6382189/?tag=Topslot%3bFromSamusToLara%3bFromSamusToLara)
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: TheL on June 13, 2012, 11:47:46 am
I'm not gonna dignify your opinion of what lable this young lady should fall under.  BTW...you're wrong.

What I will talk about is the stupidity of this whole situation.  Really guys?  You're gonna go through all this to troll and prove her right?  Are you really this stupid?

Ironbite-morons.

This, in its entirety.  Way to prove her fucking point, assholes.

Personally, I like the rare occasions when a female character is neither insanely weak nor dressed like a porn star.  FemShep, Helga, and the more recent (moderately-sized) incarnations of Lara Croft come to mind.  "Attractive" doesn't mean "wearing a strategically-placed Band-Aid."  You can, in fact, have one without the other.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: kefkaownsall on June 13, 2012, 11:49:46 am
I'm not gonna dignify your opinion of what lable this young lady should fall under.  BTW...you're wrong.

What I will talk about is the stupidity of this whole situation.  Really guys?  You're gonna go through all this to troll and prove her right?  Are you really this stupid?

Ironbite-morons.

This, in its entirety.  Way to prove her fucking point, assholes.

Personally, I like the rare occasions when a female character is neither insanely weak nor dressed like a porn star.  FemShep, Helga, and the more recent (moderately-sized) incarnations of Lara Croft come to mind.  "Attractive" doesn't mean "wearing a strategically-placed Band-Aid."  You can, in fact, have one without the other.
I would say Samus but then there was other M
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: ThunderWulf on June 13, 2012, 11:52:17 am
I'm not gonna dignify your opinion of what lable this young lady should fall under.  BTW...you're wrong.

What I will talk about is the stupidity of this whole situation.  Really guys?  You're gonna go through all this to troll and prove her right?  Are you really this stupid?

Ironbite-morons.

This, in its entirety.  Way to prove her fucking point, assholes.

Personally, I like the rare occasions when a female character is neither insanely weak nor dressed like a porn star.  FemShep, Helga, and the more recent (moderately-sized) incarnations of Lara Croft come to mind.  "Attractive" doesn't mean "wearing a strategically-placed Band-Aid."  You can, in fact, have one without the other.
I would say Samus but then there was other M

Other M completely handled Samus in exactly the wrong direction.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: kefkaownsall on June 13, 2012, 11:57:16 am
I'm not gonna dignify your opinion of what lable this young lady should fall under.  BTW...you're wrong.

What I will talk about is the stupidity of this whole situation.  Really guys?  You're gonna go through all this to troll and prove her right?  Are you really this stupid?

Ironbite-morons.

This, in its entirety.  Way to prove her fucking point, assholes.

Personally, I like the rare occasions when a female character is neither insanely weak nor dressed like a porn star.  FemShep, Helga, and the more recent (moderately-sized) incarnations of Lara Croft come to mind.  "Attractive" doesn't mean "wearing a strategically-placed Band-Aid."  You can, in fact, have one without the other.
I would say Samus but then there was other M

Other M completely handled Samus in exactly the wrong direction.
I've not gotten a chance to play it but seeing as there is a scene where Samus runs into a hot area without her heatproof suit cause her CO said not too. 
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: ThunderWulf on June 13, 2012, 12:15:54 pm
I'm not gonna dignify your opinion of what lable this young lady should fall under.  BTW...you're wrong.

What I will talk about is the stupidity of this whole situation.  Really guys?  You're gonna go through all this to troll and prove her right?  Are you really this stupid?

Ironbite-morons.

Watch 2:35:

This, in its entirety.  Way to prove her fucking point, assholes.

Personally, I like the rare occasions when a female character is neither insanely weak nor dressed like a porn star.  FemShep, Helga, and the more recent (moderately-sized) incarnations of Lara Croft come to mind.  "Attractive" doesn't mean "wearing a strategically-placed Band-Aid."  You can, in fact, have one without the other.
I would say Samus but then there was other M

Other M completely handled Samus in exactly the wrong direction.
I've not gotten a chance to play it but seeing as there is a scene where Samus runs into a hot area without her heatproof suit cause her CO said not too.

Watch 0:52 to 1:47 and 2:35 to 3:10.  That's pretty much exactly how Team Ninja (the 3rd party guys who made Other M) decided to handle Samus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XSkRuPuthY
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: DasFuchs on June 13, 2012, 12:26:20 pm
....

Fpqxz, you might consider it a waste of time, but as a female gamer who's done cultural studies, I find this sort of stuff interesting. Guess what I want to do in the next ten years - I want to study the intersection of autism and internet pop culture as personified by Christian Weston Chandler, a.k.a. Chris-Chan/Sonichu, for my PhD... Because I'm autistic and I <3 the internet. Is that a waste of time? To you, maybe, but not to me.

It's this sort of study which can lead to changing attitudes...

BTW, I love Dragon Age and its treatment of metal armours. The leather stuff is... fetishist... on both genders... You should see the Chasind robes on either male or female... LOL.

4chan found him, study done.

From the sounds of things someone turned her over to the chan and it went from there. Why anyone gets upset over them is beyond me.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: KZN02 on June 13, 2012, 01:03:09 pm
I'm not gonna dignify your opinion of what lable this young lady should fall under.  BTW...you're wrong.

What I will talk about is the stupidity of this whole situation.  Really guys?  You're gonna go through all this to troll and prove her right?  Are you really this stupid?

Ironbite-morons.

This, in its entirety.  Way to prove her fucking point, assholes.

Personally, I like the rare occasions when a female character is neither insanely weak nor dressed like a porn star.  FemShep, Helga, and the more recent (moderately-sized) incarnations of Lara Croft come to mind.  "Attractive" doesn't mean "wearing a strategically-placed Band-Aid."  You can, in fact, have one without the other.
I would say Samus but then there was other M

Other M completely handled Samus in exactly the wrong direction.
Meh, I interpreted it as why Samus is a bounty hunter and not with the Galactic Federation anymore. Plus, expenses and her track record of blowing up planets and such.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Witchyjoshy on June 13, 2012, 02:59:55 pm
It's still objectification. It makes the men seem like tools used to fight monsters, and if you die, that's because you were too weak. Plus the ones in the pictures were also scantly-clad.

That's some stretched logic there :-/
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Old Viking on June 13, 2012, 04:38:19 pm
I wish we could all be a little less hasty in destroying stereotypes.  Every time a stereotype is destroyed I find it that much harder to think.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Thejebusfire on June 13, 2012, 04:53:31 pm
It's still objectification. It makes the men seem like tools used to fight monsters, and if you die, that's because you were too weak. Plus the ones in the pictures were also scantly-clad.

That's some stretched logic there :-/

They're not nearly as scantly-clad as many the women.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Shane for Wax on June 13, 2012, 05:12:28 pm
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m024a7tAZW1qih4j7o5_400.gif)
Ah yes, "gamer equality" people have dismissed that claim.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: VirtualStranger on June 15, 2012, 05:47:01 pm
UPDATES: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games/posts (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games/posts)

$150,000

Holy fuck.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Jodie on June 15, 2012, 06:12:33 pm
Awesome!
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: VirtualStranger on June 15, 2012, 06:32:18 pm
I seriously hope she doesn't just pocket all that extra money. No way in hell does she need $150,000 to make 14 YouTube videos. If she doesn't do anything constructive with that pile of cash, it'll end up backfiring on her and seriously hurting her cause.

I do love how butt hurt, ass mad, anal anguished, rectal ravaged, posterior punished, bum busted, derriere distressed, and fanny flustered /v/ is acting now that this has backfired on them.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Nightangel8212 on June 15, 2012, 10:01:09 pm
See, this is why I like my game, Eudemons Online. Yes, you get morons trying to chat with you constantly, and getting ticked off and insulting if you tell them to bugger off, but you can screenshot what they said, report them to a moderator for harrassement, and then they can either get kicked from the game for a period of time, or have their ability to communicate with other players revoked for a few weeks or months.

Strangely, almost all the guys who were sexually harrassing me on that game were from Egypt...

They also have many clothing options for both male and female characters. You can choose whether you want to be more revealing or modest in the way you dress in the game.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Shane for Wax on June 15, 2012, 10:54:28 pm
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5n64lys7A1rugltbo1_1280.jpg)

*facepalms*
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: kefkaownsall on June 15, 2012, 11:14:29 pm
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5n64lys7A1rugltbo1_1280.jpg)

*facepalms*
rolls eyes why is Sheppard on there unless you mean to tell me the game is against men since Hale has a better voice.  Only person on there I might get is Kratos
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Shane for Wax on June 16, 2012, 01:34:57 am

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5p1060YF01qh8ofxo1_500.jpg)
And yet more of a reason as to why the project needs to happen.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: largeham on June 16, 2012, 02:23:03 am
Who creates those stereotypes? Men. What do they show? Men are strong, brave, smart, [insert positive trait here].

Regarding the EA thing, five bucks says that the same guy bitches about being in the friendzone and about how girls only date jerks.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: SpaceProg on June 16, 2012, 04:03:12 am
EA's NASCAR games were halfway decent... Then they dropped the ball.


Yes, more wine.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: kefkaownsall on June 16, 2012, 08:29:57 am

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5p1060YF01qh8ofxo1_500.jpg)
And yet more of a reason as to why the project needs to happen.
Worst Father's Day sale name ever. 
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 17, 2012, 02:15:25 am
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5n64lys7A1rugltbo1_1280.jpg)

*facepalms*

Oh Noes. Teh rugged handsomness is oppressing menses!
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on June 17, 2012, 02:32:28 am
Heh, you said "menses"
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: syaoranvee on June 17, 2012, 02:38:00 am
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/22066057.jpg)
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Morgenleoht on June 17, 2012, 02:43:52 am
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/22066057.jpg)

Good for her?
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Lt. Fred on June 17, 2012, 03:11:16 am

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5p1060YF01qh8ofxo1_500.jpg)
And yet more of a reason as to why the project needs to happen.
Worst Father's Day sale name ever.

Also, the rich don't care about poverty, Christians don't care about religious persecution, ect.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 17, 2012, 03:59:40 am
Heh, you said "menses"

Crikey, THAT was a bit of a howler coming from an English teacher!  :o
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: KZN02 on June 17, 2012, 04:23:35 pm
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/22066057.jpg)

Good for her?
Intentionally feeding the trolls to get more money? That sounds ludicrous somehow, but genius.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Art Vandelay on June 17, 2012, 08:16:50 pm
Intentionally feeding the trolls to get more money? That sounds ludicrous somehow, but genius.
That's how those "ReplyGirl"s on Youtube get shitloads of money just for putting out crappy 40-second videos.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Morgenleoht on June 17, 2012, 08:21:32 pm
Intentionally feeding the trolls to get more money? That sounds ludicrous somehow, but genius.
That's how those "ReplyGirl"s on Youtube get shitloads of money just for putting out crappy 40-second videos.

...I should try that. I could use the extra cash.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Art Vandelay on June 17, 2012, 08:30:41 pm
Intentionally feeding the trolls to get more money? That sounds ludicrous somehow, but genius.
That's how those "ReplyGirl"s on Youtube get shitloads of money just for putting out crappy 40-second videos.
...I should try that. I could use the extra cash.
It wouldn't work so well these days. The secrets kind of out already, so there's not only lots of replygirl clones kicking around already, but also less people are watching them just to leave hate comments.

Though it's hardly a huge effort to make them, and I believe nowadays anyone can get a Youtube partnership simply by asking, so I say go for it.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Morgenleoht on June 17, 2012, 08:33:45 pm
Hmmm... tempting...

Though what would I talk about? I really have nothing to say beyond bitching and moaning about where I live.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Art Vandelay on June 17, 2012, 08:42:20 pm
Hmmm... tempting...

Though what would I talk about? I really have nothing to say beyond bitching and moaning about where I live.
You basically find an already popular Youtube channel (preferably a gaming channel, due to the nature of the fans). Whenever they release a new video, record around 40 seconds of yourself saying something inane like "hi guys, so I just finished watching [video], and I liked this part, didn't like that part, and this other part was good so check it out, ok bye", name the video "RE: [title of video you're replying to]" and upload it as quickly as you can. If you do it quickly enough, you'll get a nice big chunk of extremely easy ad money.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Thejebusfire on June 17, 2012, 11:43:37 pm
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5n64lys7A1rugltbo1_1280.jpg)

*facepalms*
rolls eyes why is Sheppard on there unless you mean to tell me the game is against men since Hale has a better voice.  Only person on there I might get is Kratos

Notice how most of those are headshots and how all those guy's chests are covered?
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: ThunderWulf on June 18, 2012, 01:06:14 am
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5n64lys7A1rugltbo1_1280.jpg)

*facepalms*

Okay, a couple of those I can see, but some, really?
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Cataclysm on June 18, 2012, 01:22:22 am
Well they made their first video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw-sjAICwKg

And they left this in their description box.

"If you'd like to know more about gender stereotypes, we heartily recommend taking a wander over to http://www.feministfrequency.com/ and http://www.youtube.com/user/feministfrequency to see the fantastic work being carried out by Anita Sarkeesian and her supporters!"

I can't tell if that is sarcasm or legitimate support, but given the fact that they recognized misogyny in video games, and basically ripped off her starter video, it's probably both.

Here is where the money is going.

25% - Prostate Cancer Foundation (http://www.pcf.org)
25% - Ovarian Cancer Research Fund (http://www.ocrf.org)
50% - Lungevity (http://www.lungevity.org)
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: TheL on June 19, 2012, 07:32:39 am
Well, this is starting out interesting.  I do agree that male characters in games for adults tend to come in too few varieties:  Space Marine, Soldier, Gangster, Pick one.

On the other hand, I'm not too thrilled by the use of text-as-video during so much of the video.   Hopefully future installments in the series will save that sort of thing for statistics and other applications that make sense.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Shane for Wax on June 19, 2012, 07:35:36 am
That same argument can be made for women, to be fair. Support Role, Barely Clothed Damsel in Distress, Hooker, Run From Everything Girl.

If you're lucky males and females can have the same profession but still have different stats.

It's fun.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Art Vandelay on June 19, 2012, 07:41:23 am
That same argument can be made for women, to be fair. Support Role, Barely Clothed Damsel in Distress, Hooker, Run From Everything Girl.

If you're lucky males and females can have the same profession but still have different stats.

It's fun.
In other words, characters of either gender are often one dimensional cookie-cutter stereotypes.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: ThunderWulf on June 19, 2012, 08:46:41 am
That same argument can be made for women, to be fair. Support Role, Barely Clothed Damsel in Distress, Hooker, Run From Everything Girl.

If you're lucky males and females can have the same profession but still have different stats.

It's fun.
In other words, characters of either gender are often one dimensional cookie-cutter stereotypes.

Which is pretty much the mainstream gaming industry in general right now I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Distind on June 19, 2012, 09:22:54 am
In other words, characters of either gender are often one dimensional cookie-cutter stereotypes.
Yes, but when you do it to women, it's insulting. When you stereotype men into a bald psychotic mass murder, it's fine. Empowering even... apparently.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Smurfette Principle on June 19, 2012, 09:50:32 am
In other words, characters of either gender are often one dimensional cookie-cutter stereotypes.
Yes, but when you do it to women, it's insulting. When you stereotype men into a bald psychotic mass murder, it's fine. Empowering even... apparently.

Men being badasses is a male power fantasy. It appeals to men. That's also why men are ridiculously muscled in comics. It sucks that men are portrayed that way, but it isn't in any way equal to the way women are portrayed.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Art Vandelay on June 19, 2012, 10:43:50 am
In other words, characters of either gender are often one dimensional cookie-cutter stereotypes.
Yes, but when you do it to women, it's insulting. When you stereotype men into a bald psychotic mass murder, it's fine. Empowering even... apparently.

Men being badasses is a male power fantasy. It appeals to men. That's also why men are ridiculously muscled in comics. It sucks that men are portrayed that way, but it isn't in any way equal to the way women are portrayed.

Just because the male stereotypes are intended to appeal to men doesn't mean they shouldn't be addressed along with female stereotypes.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Cerim Treascair on June 19, 2012, 01:39:59 pm
That same argument can be made for women, to be fair. Support Role, Barely Clothed Damsel in Distress, Hooker, Run From Everything Girl.

If you're lucky males and females can have the same profession but still have different stats.

It's fun.

There are exceptions to those roles.  Suikoden series, for example.  Ronnie Bell, Oulan, Lorelei, Milia (and her daughter, Sharon), Sonya Shulen, Tengaar... and that's just a selection from the first two games out of five (with Sharon being in the third).
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Smurfette Principle on June 19, 2012, 08:03:17 pm
In other words, characters of either gender are often one dimensional cookie-cutter stereotypes.
Yes, but when you do it to women, it's insulting. When you stereotype men into a bald psychotic mass murder, it's fine. Empowering even... apparently.

Men being badasses is a male power fantasy. It appeals to men. That's also why men are ridiculously muscled in comics. It sucks that men are portrayed that way, but it isn't in any way equal to the way women are portrayed.

Just because the male stereotypes are intended to appeal to men doesn't mean they shouldn't be addressed along with female stereotypes.

I didn't say that they shouldn't be addressed, just that the effect is rather different.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Shane for Wax on June 20, 2012, 08:04:48 am
That same argument can be made for women, to be fair. Support Role, Barely Clothed Damsel in Distress, Hooker, Run From Everything Girl.

If you're lucky males and females can have the same profession but still have different stats.

It's fun.

There are exceptions to those roles.  Suikoden series, for example.  Ronnie Bell, Oulan, Lorelei, Milia (and her daughter, Sharon), Sonya Shulen, Tengaar... and that's just a selection from the first two games out of five (with Sharon being in the third).

...
Once again these are arguments that can be flipped to the other sex. Which is what I was trying to point out.

We're speaking generalities here, people.

The whole of gaming is full of stereotypes and generalization. Pointing out games where it's outside of the norm doesn't help much.

Also, I agree with Smurfette.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 20, 2012, 09:21:54 am
Well, this is starting out interesting.  I do agree that male characters in games for adults tend to come in too few varieties:  Space Marine, Soldier, Gangster, Pick one.

That same argument can be made for women, to be fair. Support Role, Barely Clothed Damsel in Distress, Hooker, Run From Everything Girl.

Both are sets of stereotypes, one set of stereotypes has a higher survivability factor during a zombie apocalypse!
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: TheL on June 20, 2012, 10:28:45 am
Well, this is starting out interesting.  I do agree that male characters in games for adults tend to come in too few varieties:  Space Marine, Soldier, Gangster, Pick one.

That same argument can be made for women, to be fair. Support Role, Barely Clothed Damsel in Distress, Hooker, Run From Everything Girl.

Both are sets of stereotypes, one set of stereotypes has a higher survivability factor during a zombie apocalypse!

Exactly!  Why are the sexes stereotypes so damn much?

(Also, thought of another awesome exception:  Alex Roivas from Eternal Darkness.  In fact, pretty much ALL of Eternal Darkness.  But it didn't sell well, so meh.)
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Cataclysm on June 20, 2012, 07:07:02 pm
If this video is to be believed, Anita spammed her project on 4chan and other trolling websites to create negative feedback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OExCdOImmVA
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: VirtualStranger on June 20, 2012, 07:19:53 pm
Quote
If this video is to be believed,

Which it most certainly is not.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Witchyjoshy on June 20, 2012, 09:05:52 pm
Why would I believe that video?
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Shane for Wax on June 20, 2012, 09:17:40 pm
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m024a7tAZW1qih4j7o5_400.gif)
Ah yes, "butthurt trolls" we have dismissed that claim.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: TheL on June 21, 2012, 08:51:22 pm
Not to mention that 4chan needs absolutely no excuse to start hating on people for no reason.  It's practically their entire modus operandi.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: The Aphotic Zone on July 12, 2012, 11:14:08 pm
Not to mention that 4chan needs absolutely no excuse to start hating on people for no reason.  It's practically their entire modus operandi.

What tickles me, though, is that she managed to channel that rage and hatred into proving her point, which apparently none of the MLG Pro badasses saw coming. After she's either trolled the trolls into shooting themselves in the groin (admirable) or they've taken the initiative to spew hatred and inadvertently shot themselves in the groin in the process (funny as hell), they've got the nerve to complain about being beaten at their own game.

What's that martial art where you use the opponent's own force against them?
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Cerim Treascair on July 13, 2012, 02:49:09 am
Not to mention that 4chan needs absolutely no excuse to start hating on people for no reason.  It's practically their entire modus operandi.

What tickles me, though, is that she managed to channel that rage and hatred into proving her point, which apparently none of the MLG Pro badasses saw coming. After she's either trolled the trolls into shooting themselves in the groin (admirable) or they've taken the initiative to spew hatred and inadvertently shot themselves in the groin in the process (funny as hell), they've got the nerve to complain about being beaten at their own game.

What's that martial art where you use the opponent's own force against them?

You're thinking of jiujitsu.  All about inertia and balance.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Fpqxz on July 13, 2012, 03:58:55 am
I gotta admit, this is one hell of a scam this woman is running.  She figured out a way to turn the victim card into cold, hard cash.

The best thing anyone could do with this type of person is ignore her.  Don't send her money, and don't give her any kind of attention, positive or negative, because either way, she wins.
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Shane for Wax on July 13, 2012, 06:40:30 am
Holy hell why was this resurrected?
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Smurfette Principle on July 13, 2012, 11:40:25 am
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/602/resurrectionvq2.jpg)
Title: Re: Fundie-Feminist gamer gets death threats
Post by: Cataclysm on July 13, 2012, 01:46:47 pm
June 21, July 12, no it hasn't been a month yet.