Yet another new drug

[DrFishcake]

I'm not saying we should scare kids shitless with horrible, graphic descriptions and images of what drug addiction can do to you, but we should teach them what they do.  No scare tactics, no bullshit, just straight, no-nonsense facts.

I don't know, I think one krokodil pic is enough to put most people off going near it.

[TigerHunter]

New, dangerous and shitty drugs couldn't compete with good and safe stuff like pot, psilocybin, and LSD if it wasn't illegal.

Sure they would. Pot is different than acid is different than cocaine is different than heroine. There's always going to be somebody who wants something that's stronger, faster, longer lasting. Hell, crack came about because caine wasn't strong enough. Let that sink in for a second.

There's plenty of good reasons to legalize some drugs. But that ain't one of them.

I disagree. The legality of marijuana substitutes like Spice and K2 is their only selling point, no one would smoke them if they could have walked into the same shop and bought pot instead.

[rookie]

True. But if weed was legal, there'd still be a market for heroine. That was my point.

[TigerHunter]

True. But if weed was legal, there'd still be a market for heroine. That was my point.

That I do agree with. But legalizing drugs like weed, cocaine and heroin would kill the market for their even worse synthetic substitutes.

[rookie]

But legalizing drugs like weed, cocaine and heroin would kill the market for their even worse synthetic substitutes.

You make a good point. But I still don't see that as a good reason to legalize some drugs. Heroine, meth, crack for example. LI have seen too many times what happens to people use the three I mentioned for me to be convinced there is a good enough reason to legalize them.

[TigerHunter]

But legalizing drugs like weed, cocaine and heroin would kill the market for their even worse synthetic substitutes.

You make a good point. But I still don't see that as a good reason to legalize some drugs. Heroine, meth, crack for example. LI have seen too many times what happens to people use the three I mentioned for me to be convinced there is a good enough reason to legalize them.

I believe that all drugs should be legal. My reasons are thus:

1. The law has not been an effective deterrent against their use, and countries that have legalized drugs have actually shown a decrease in drug use, among both "soft" drugs like weed and "hard" drugs like heroin.

2. Even if the law was an effective deterrent, the black market resulting from criminalization creates unacceptable levels of violent crime. We recognized this with alcohol back during prohibition, it's time we recognized it with other drugs now. We could solve half of Mexico's crime problems overnight just by legalizing drugs.

3. Criminalization causes us to look at drug use and addiction as a criminal problem instead of the medical problem it is, and makes addicts less likely to seek treatment. In Portugal, which decriminalized all drugs in 2001, "illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled." Further, criminalization ensures that these drugs are only available on the black market, which is by its very nature unregulated. Even something as harmless as weed can fuck you up if it's been sprayed with pesticides, and that's nothing compared to what cocaine and heroin are cut with, or what meth that's been made wrong can do.

4. From the legal side of things, I believe that if the U.S. Constitution's inherent right to privacy includes the right to medical procedures like abortion, it also includes the right to put whatever substances you want into your body, and that nothing in the Constitution gives the federal government the power to criminalize the possession of a plant or substance.

[Kit Walker]

I don't know, I think one krokodil pic is enough to put most people off going near it.

Huh? Well, I should look that up to see what you meSWEET HOLY BABY JESUS BALLS SHIT GOD WARN A MOTHER FUCKER NEXT TIME.

[RavynousHunter]

I'm not saying we should scare kids shitless with horrible, graphic descriptions and images of what drug addiction can do to you, but we should teach them what they do.  No scare tactics, no bullshit, just straight, no-nonsense facts.

I don't know, I think one krokodil pic is enough to put most people off going near it.

Haha, maybe.  People don't always respond to fear in the way you think or want them to...

[Smurfette Principle]

I can see legalizing weed, and things like LSD to a certain extent. Can't see stuff like heroin or crack. If we decriminalize soft drugs but not harder drugs, I think more people would go for softer drugs because it's easier and safer than something you can actually overdose on.

[rookie]

Tiger, I agree with most of what you said. And if certain things were in place, I'd be more willing to accept them. But before we (the royal we) can legalize hard drugs, I feel we have some work to do.

For example, there needs to be more positive encouragement for people to go into rehab. And the rehab places, well, we need them to be more accessible. Be they more methadone clinics, adequate rehab centers or care facilities in hospitals. Education or job placement services would be nice. You can loose a job quick while doing some hard drugs, and the stigma of having spent time at a court ordered drying out facility is a serious stumbling block for gainful reemployment. So it might be nice to see incentives given to businesses who hire rehabilitated addicts kind of like the ones for hiring veterans right now.

Things like that, ya know? It seems a little wrong to clean a person up them boot them out the door with little more than a smile and cheery best wishes. And once that's addressed, I'd be much more willing to agree to legalization of everything.

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

I don't know, I think one krokodil pic is enough to put most people off going near it.

Unless they are already addicted to smack, krokodil being an opiate.

People were already giving themselves krokodil type lesions, scars and open pus filled wounds by shooting up pills and having their veins collapse long before desomorphine came on the scene!

[TigerHunter]

Tiger, I agree with most of what you said. And if certain things were in place, I'd be more willing to accept them. But before we (the royal we) can legalize hard drugs, I feel we have some work to do.

For example, there needs to be more positive encouragement for people to go into rehab. And the rehab places, well, we need them to be more accessible. Be they more methadone clinics, adequate rehab centers or care facilities in hospitals. Education or job placement services would be nice. You can loose a job quick while doing some hard drugs, and the stigma of having spent time at a court ordered drying out facility is a serious stumbling block for gainful reemployment. So it might be nice to see incentives given to businesses who hire rehabilitated addicts kind of like the ones for hiring veterans right now.

Things like that, ya know? It seems a little wrong to clean a person up them boot them out the door with little more than a smile and cheery best wishes. And once that's addressed, I'd be much more willing to agree to legalization of everything.

I agree that these things would be a benefit to the community, but I believe that the legalization of drugs would also be a benefit even without them.

[StallChaser]

I can see legalizing weed, and things like LSD to a certain extent. Can't see stuff like heroin or crack. If we decriminalize soft drugs but not harder drugs, I think more people would go for softer drugs because it's easier and safer than something you can actually overdose on.

Even the really nasty stuff should be legal, but there should be different controls based on the type of drug.  Any increase in use (if it even does increase) is more than offset by the increase in safety because of known dosage/purity, medical supervision, etc.  All prohibition does is make drugs more dangerous.

[Sylvana]

What I would like to know is why all drugs are not treated like current medicines?
Right now you can get the strongest stuff ever at your local pharmacy if you have a valid prescription, why can't these drugs be treated in the same manner?

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

What I would like to know is why all drugs are not treated like current medicines?
Right now you can get the strongest stuff ever at your local pharmacy if you have a valid prescription, why can't these drugs be treated in the same manner?

Because the private prison industry would lose it's biggest income stream!

Seriously, don't you have any empathy for those guys?