Author Topic: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches  (Read 9052 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Cataclysm

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2458
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2012, 12:27:18 am »
Personally I don't feel people should receive welfare if they're not going into a high payoff or otherwise useful job.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

Quote
Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline Witchyjoshy

  • SHITLORD THUNDERBASTARD!!
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9044
  • Gender: Male
  • Thinks he's a bard
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2012, 12:43:55 am »
Personally I don't feel people should receive welfare if they're not going into a high payoff or otherwise useful job.

I think if they had the ability to go into a high payoff/useful job, they wouldn't need to be on welfare in the first place -_-
Mockery of ideas you don't comprehend or understand is the surest mark of unintelligence.

Even the worst union is better than the best Walmart.

Caladur's Active Character Sheet

Offline Cataclysm

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2458
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2012, 12:53:05 am »
Re-training programs that the government can fund.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 12:57:11 am by Lexikon »
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

Quote
Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline Witchyjoshy

  • SHITLORD THUNDERBASTARD!!
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9044
  • Gender: Male
  • Thinks he's a bard
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2012, 01:05:46 am »
Re-training programs that the government can fund.

And when are they going to get the time to visit these programs while working two or three minimum-wage jobs, just to get the money to pay for stuff?

Food stamps don't pay the bills, nor do they buy diapers.  Welfare already has a requirement that people actively look for employment.  The problem is that the amount of potential workers exceed the number of jobs, and that has actual workers by the short hairs.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 01:07:29 am by Zachski »
Mockery of ideas you don't comprehend or understand is the surest mark of unintelligence.

Even the worst union is better than the best Walmart.

Caladur's Active Character Sheet

Offline Cataclysm

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2458
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2012, 03:15:18 am »
Re-training programs that the government can fund.

And when are they going to get the time to visit these programs while working two or three minimum-wage jobs, just to get the money to pay for stuff?

I was thinking that the government could help with the bills and stuff while they are at school. Then they would only need one part time job to help.

Quote
The problem is that the amount of potential workers exceed the number of jobs, and that has actual workers by the short hairs.

If the government invested in R&D programs and rebuilding infrastructure that would create millions of jobs.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

Quote
Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline ironbite

  • Overlord of all that is good in Iacon City
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10686
  • Gender: Male
  • Stuck in the middle with you.
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2012, 03:22:34 am »
And you know we can't have that.

Offline Witchyjoshy

  • SHITLORD THUNDERBASTARD!!
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9044
  • Gender: Male
  • Thinks he's a bard
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2012, 03:56:32 am »
Okay then, Lexikon.  Let me put it this way.

Even if the government re-training paid for all of their food, their needs, and their bills, you would then deny them welfare if they don't get a high-paying job...

...which isn't always in their control.  For one thing, corporations don't WANT to pay people high-wage.  They want to pay people as shit wages as possible for as much work they can get out of them as possible.

And considering that unemployed > potential jobs, the corporations can afford to pick the cheapest bidder.  They don't care about actual skill, just so long as they're qualified.

By your logic, the people who don't get picked for arbitrary reasons then lose welfare even if they keep looking for jobs but don't get them.

Your logic is exceedingly dangerous.  Welfare is a safety net.  It shouldn't have the qualifier of "You only get welfare if you make yourself useful to society" because that is a terrible, terrible line of thought.  It's a safety net.  Its only requirement should be when you're too poor to sustain yourself.  None other.
Mockery of ideas you don't comprehend or understand is the surest mark of unintelligence.

Even the worst union is better than the best Walmart.

Caladur's Active Character Sheet

Offline N. De Plume

  • Mysterious Writing Implement
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1936
  • Gender: Male
  • Nom, nom, nom…
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2012, 06:59:47 am »
Your logic is exceedingly dangerous.  Welfare is a safety net.  It shouldn't have the qualifier of "You only get welfare if you make yourself useful to society" because that is a terrible, terrible line of thought.  It's a safety net.  Its only requirement should be when you're too poor to sustain yourself.  None other.

And “Useful” is way too subjective, too. And even those infrastructure projects mentioned earlier are going to require a lot of shitty positions as well.
-A Pen Name

Offline TenfoldMaquette

  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2012, 07:48:37 am »
I'd be totally cool with the idea of the gov't offering free training courses for particularly useful skills or trades, if only because it might give disadvantaged people another avenue of pursuit for their job search. Doesn't guarantee a job, but a varied skill set can make you useful to a wide-enough job market that you might have a greater chance of pulling in something worthwhile. You can learn a trade if you join the military, so why not offer the same to the civilian population?

As an aside, I wish the gov't would set the "minimum wage" as the actual minimum livable wage. Around here minimum wage is like $7.25, which is about $2 less than the minimum livable wage. Given that Maine's got a history of our businesses being a bunch of cheap-ass bastards, $7.25 is often the starting wage they'll pitch - or $7.50 if you've got 5+ years work experience. This leads to the vast majority of people being on welfare or - if they can get their employer to give them a stable schedule (very rare) - they work 2-3 jobs just to make bills. Why not just skip all that bullshit and actually pay people what they need to get by modestly as the bare minimum?

Offline kefkaownsall

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3253
  • Gender: Male
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2012, 08:22:00 am »
I'd be totally cool with the idea of the gov't offering free training courses for particularly useful skills or trades, if only because it might give disadvantaged people another avenue of pursuit for their job search. Doesn't guarantee a job, but a varied skill set can make you useful to a wide-enough job market that you might have a greater chance of pulling in something worthwhile. You can learn a trade if you join the military, so why not offer the same to the civilian population?

As an aside, I wish the gov't would set the "minimum wage" as the actual minimum livable wage. Around here minimum wage is like $7.25, which is about $2 less than the minimum livable wage. Given that Maine's got a history of our businesses being a bunch of cheap-ass bastards, $7.25 is often the starting wage they'll pitch - or $7.50 if you've got 5+ years work experience. This leads to the vast majority of people being on welfare or - if they can get their employer to give them a stable schedule (very rare) - they work 2-3 jobs just to make bills. Why not just skip all that bullshit and actually pay people what they need to get by modestly as the bare minimum?
the issue is that the minimum wage has not been adjusted for inflation

Offline Cataclysm

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2458
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2012, 11:28:00 am »
Okay then, Lexikon.  Let me put it this way.

Even if the government re-training paid for all of their food, their needs, and their bills, you would then deny them welfare if they don't get a high-paying job...


Not necesairly. If they have a useful job related to subjects like green energy, R&D, agriculture, and transportation they shouldn't be denied.

Quote
...which isn't always in their control.  For one thing, corporations don't WANT to pay people high-wage.  They want to pay people as shit wages as possible for as much work they can get out of them as possible.

Well, if they get a government job, they could be aid well. Furthermore, I think we should support small and local businesses and co-ops to make it easier.

Quote
Your logic is exceedingly dangerous.  Welfare is a safety net.  It shouldn't have the qualifier of "You only get welfare if you make yourself useful to society" because that is a terrible, terrible line of thought.  It's a safety net.  Its only requirement should be when you're too poor to sustain yourself.  None other.

The government should have a responsibility to stabalize its economy. People should have an incentive to go into jobs that make our country strong and shouldn't be steered in another direction. Furthermore welfare is currently to make yourself useful to society since, like you said, but also because it allows to people to buy products that keep the economy running.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

Quote
Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline nickiknack

  • I Find Your Lack of Ponies... Disturbing
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 6037
  • Gender: Female
  • HAS A KINK FOR SPACE NAZIS
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2012, 11:38:32 am »
This article is from some years ago (2003), but it does address the problem with welfare to work reform.

Offline TenfoldMaquette

  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2012, 12:47:34 pm »
the issue is that the minimum wage has not been adjusted for inflation

Oh, I know, I'm just griping. Last time I checked Americans are making around half of what they should be making.

Offline booley

  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
  • Gender: Male
  • Grand High Viceroy of the Eastern Expanses
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2012, 02:40:05 pm »
Do these idiots know that when they say things like this and abuse the system, they just fire up conservative folks to end the system? Even if they do abuse it (which they do), do they need to boast about it?

:Waits to see this come November as a GOP commercial:

Take it up with Alexandra Pelosi, with this hasty made video. She did because she wanted to be "fair" and show both sides. And yes, one can clearly see that it was made in a haste. In the MS one, it seems to be a bit more in depth, this one seems to be very shallow, and it doesn't even acknowledge that there are cut off dates and requirements, and just in my opinion adds more fuel to the fire.

I hate to say it but from living. Missouri I have seen folks from both videos.  I have to deal with them everyday.

Not everyone who is poor is like this.  But then the ones who aren't fuck ups don't stand out by definition.

Welfare does need to be reformed.  Problem is cons have controlled the debate and what they mean by reform is end.  Which puts liberals in the position of defending a crappy system because it's still better then the alternative conservatives want (for others anyway)
“The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.”
The Doctor

Distind

  • Guest
Re: The sequel to Mississippi redneck, NY welfare leeches
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2012, 03:23:46 pm »
the issue is that the minimum wage has not been adjusted for inflation

Oh, I know, I'm just griping. Last time I checked Americans are making around half of what they should be making.
I wouldn't say half, but it would be nice if my parents made more now than they had 10 years ago. I'm not looking forward to having to find a way to support them around the same time I'm putting a kid through college.