Author Topic: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington  (Read 387932 times)

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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2925 on: March 23, 2019, 06:55:48 am »
The House near-unanimously passed a resolution to release the report (420-0, I believe, with 4 Republicans voting "present"). Graham blocked it in the Senate because HER EMAILS.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some House committee chair subpoena the thing and then arrange to have it leaked.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Kanzenkankaku

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2926 on: March 24, 2019, 12:53:17 am »
whats Graham frightened of, wasn't he positioning himself as a moderate Trump critic a while back?

Offline DarkPhoenix

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2927 on: March 24, 2019, 02:19:05 am »
whats Graham frightened of, wasn't he positioning himself as a moderate Trump critic a while back?

Now he's Trump's best friend and loudest defender!

Offline ironbite

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2928 on: March 24, 2019, 03:26:53 pm »
Trump and/or Russia probably found Graham's secret stash of pool boys.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2929 on: March 24, 2019, 03:30:50 pm »
whats Graham frightened of, wasn't he positioning himself as a moderate Trump critic a while back?

That the fate that befell Mark Sanford (who's also from South Carolina) will befall him--lose in a primary, lose the seat to the Democratic challenger. (I don't think the latter will happen, but the former absolutely could.)
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Id82

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2930 on: March 24, 2019, 04:37:06 pm »
I'm not surprised that Mueller found no Collusion with Russia from Trump. When Trump hires fall guys to take all the blame for him and never point the finger at the one paying them. This is to be expected.
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Offline davedan

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2931 on: March 24, 2019, 05:04:15 pm »
I know Mueller has delivered his report but has it been released?

Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2932 on: March 24, 2019, 07:44:55 pm »
Hahaha, nope.

And if anyone who has interest in keeping Trump in the White House has anything to say about it, it never will be. And since Barr released his statement, Trump's supporters are now going to flaunt this as "proof" that Trump was innocent as if it were just a coincidence that Trump hired the guy who released the statement and despite the statement literally saying Mueller didn't exonerate Trump.
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Offline Id82

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2933 on: March 24, 2019, 08:20:33 pm »
Apparently he exonerated him on collusion, but not on obstruction, but if it is as you say and the report hasn't been released and were taking the word of Trumps attorney general than well probably never know the truth until this thing is declassified in 10 to 50 years, probably long after Trump is dead.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 08:22:48 pm by Id82 »
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2934 on: March 24, 2019, 09:47:24 pm »
Wouldn't be surprised to see it leaked from a House committee.

As for collusion vs. obstruction... this was the reason Democratic politicians and pundits should never have been harping away on collusion and going on more about stuff like obstruction and emoluments.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline DarkPhoenix

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2935 on: March 26, 2019, 06:46:11 pm »
I know Mueller has delivered his report but has it been released?

Nope.  We just got a 3-and-a-half page "summary" from Coverup-General William Barr of Iran-Contra fame, summing it up as "Trump didn't do anything wrong!  No collusion!  And all that obstruction you saw him perform on TV and on Twitter?  Well, it's not obstruction if there's no collusion, so he's 100% innocent!  Now everyone drop this and shut up already."

And Trump's doing a victory lap around the US media, with the usual suspects kissing his ass and saying they believed him all along.  In fact, he's in SUCH a great mood, that he's decided to ask them for another favor; the White House handed all the major media outlets a list of people Trump NEVER wants on TV again, and they expect that the media will refuse to show any of them for at least the next two years.

They also decided that since this is such a GREAT victory, they're going to toss their old ACA plan of breaking it apart piece by piece in the trash, and now they're asking for the courts to destroy it altogether.  Tomorrow.  Just make it GONE.

Offline Id82

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2936 on: March 26, 2019, 07:12:15 pm »
So twelve million people are about to lose their health insurance. No more protections for pre existing conditions and no plan to replace since Trump doesn't have the house anymore all because Trump feels vindicated?
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2937 on: March 26, 2019, 08:31:40 pm »
So twelve million people are about to lose their health insurance. No more protections for pre existing conditions and no plan to replace since Trump doesn't have the house anymore all because Trump feels vindicated?

As I've seen it put, the ruling happened as it did because the judge can't do math: zero is a number, and Congress can levy a tax of $0. (The mandate itself still technically exists; you still have to say whether or not you have coverage.)

Of course, this is why Obama should have pulled people like Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson into the Oval Office back in 2010 and politically forced them to go for expanding Medicare, since if Medicare isn't unconstitutional as is, changing the age limit would similarly not be unconstitutional.

(Proper federal-level single-payer might be unconstitutional; Medicare as it is, by my understanding, is a public option, as nobody is required to accept Medicare coverage, so public options should be constitutional.)
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline DarkPhoenix

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2938 on: March 26, 2019, 10:46:37 pm »
So twelve million people are about to lose their health insurance. No more protections for pre existing conditions and no plan to replace since Trump doesn't have the house anymore all because Trump feels vindicated?

12 million?  If Trump gets what he's pushing for now, the number they're saying is over TWENTY million.  Not to mention absolute chaos in the health care market, since they don't want any kind of ramp down; they want it erased IMMEDIATELY.  So no one will know what is or isn't in effect.  The Dems passed a bill fixing some of the holes in the ACA, but we all know McScumbag won't allow it to come up for a vote.  He's having more fun letting the Green New Deal come up so his idiotic caucus can prove they're the largest bunch of morons to ever hold government in a civilized country.  Witness Mike Lee of Utah using, and I shit you not, Aquaman, Tauntauns from Star Wars, and FUCKING RONALD REAGAN ON A VELOCIRAPTOR to argue that Climate Change is bullshit, and the world would be better off if everyone got married and had more children:

https://twitter.com/_waleedshahid/status/1110577314612547584

Of course, this is why Obama should have pulled people like Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson into the Oval Office back in 2010 and politically forced them to go for expanding Medicare, since if Medicare isn't unconstitutional as is, changing the age limit would similarly not be unconstitutional.

One of Obama's largest mistakes as President, honestly; he spent way too much time and goodwill trying to get both the Republicans and the Blue Dog Dems to work with him, when it was obvious that the former were determined to treat him like a foreign usurper and the latter wanted to maintain the status quo at all costs.  And quite frankly, just looking at what Lieberman has done since then... Obama really should have told him to fuck right off.

Edit: It's probably worth mentioning that Barr's conclusion with respect to obstruction of justice is complete bullshit if you think about it for even 10 seconds.  According to Barr, Trump hasn't committed any obstruction of justice because he's never been charged with a crime, and thus cannot have obstructed anything.  But by THAT logic, all you would have to do to avoid being charged with a crime is destroy any evidence of it before anyone gets around to actually charging you with it.  This is in fact the very scenario that obstruction of justice was CREATED for, because it's entirely possible that the act of obstruction could have prevented the authorities from getting the evidence needed to prove a crime had been committed.  Obstruction does not require the person obstructing to be charged with a crime, as Barr claims.

Oh, and by the way, they did charge Michael Flynn with a crime.  Trump ordered James Comey to drop the charges against Flynn, and then fired him when he wouldn't do it.  That, right there, is textbook obstruction of justice.  It might not have been had they went with the original explanation, but Trump just HAD to get up on TV and boast about how he did it to end any investigations involving Russia... Which included Flynn's charges.

And then there's the fact that he ordered his underlings to lie to Congress.  Lying to Congress is perjury, and getting witnesses to lie is both obstruction AND witness tampering.  And it's probably worth mentioning that they got Bill Clinton for supposedly getting witness to lie to Congress... So Barr and the Repubs are basically arguing that for unspecified "reasons", Trump is immune to being charged for the same crimes as Bill Clinton.

Barr's argument is so stupid that a non-lawyer could see right through it.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 11:45:54 pm by DarkPhoenix »

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2939 on: March 26, 2019, 11:46:10 pm »
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=116&session=1&vote=00052

And on that "Green New Deal" vote?

Jones, King, Manchin and Sinema voted against. All the other Dems (and Sanders) voted Present.

Because it's not like you can go into a roomful of Trump voters in West Virginia and get substantial applause for proposing left-wing* policies.

*Really by-and-large centrist, of course, when you go look at polling.

EDIT: On another note, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), in the United States House Committee on Financial Services, quoted without further comment.

Quote
Beside from that, when we talk about the concern of the environment as an "elitist" concern, one year ago, I was waitressing in a taco shop in downtown Manhattan. I just got health insurance for the first time a month ago. This is not an elitist issue, this is a quality of life issue.

You wanna tell people that their concern and their desire for clean air and clean water is "elitist"? Tell that to the kids in the South Bronx which are suffering from the highest rates of childhood asthma in the country. Tell that to the families in Flint whose kids have their blood is ascending in lead levels, their brains are damaged for the rest of their lives, call them "elitist". You're telling them that those kids are trying to get on a plane to Davos?

People are dying. They are dying. And the response across the other side of the aisle is to introduce an amendment five minutes before a hearing in a markup? This is serious. This should not be a partisan issue. This is about our constituents and all of our lives. Iowa, Nebraska, broad swaths of the Midwest are drowning right now, underwater. Farms, towns that will never be recovered and never come back. And we're here, and people are more concerned about helping oil companies than helping their own families? I don't think so. I don't think so.

This is about our lives. This is about American lives. And it should not be partisan. Science should not be partisan. We are facing a national crisis, and if we do not ascend to that crisis, if we do not ascend to the levels in which we were threatened at the Great Depression, when we were threatened in World War II, if we do not ascend to those levels, if we tell the American public that we are more willing to invest and bail out big banks than we are willing to invest in our farmers and our urban families, then I don't know what we're here doing. I don't know what we're here doing.

Well, OK. One comment.

Quote
I'll tell you what's going on. She represents ME. She represents everyone I know. She represents the normal people. She cares about OUR interests. In my lifetime I have NEVER felt this represented before in government. It's time for government to work for us, as it was intended. To all the people coming out of the woodwork to spew hate: I love that she represents you too, and that her policies will benefit you as well. I feel sorry for all those that can't or won't see this.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 09:59:52 pm by dpareja »
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.