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Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Zygarde on June 25, 2013, 02:49:35 pm

Title: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Zygarde on June 25, 2013, 02:49:35 pm
So 40 years ago yesterday on in 1973 the largest mass murder of gay individuals happened in my home town none the less to this day it has yet to be solved heres a quote from an article about it.


Quote
NEW ORLEANS – Forty years ago today, 32 people perished after an arsonist set fire to a gay bar in New Orleans. Many of the victims burned to death, unable to escape the flames that consumed the second-story bar in the famed French Quarter. The others died from smoke inhalation.

Fifteen people suffered gruesome injuries but survived. About 30 others were guided to a little-known exit door, where they fled to safety on a neighboring rooftop.

Heres the article itself http://sdgln.com/news/2013/06/24/40-years-ago-today-remembering-worst-gay-mass-murder-us-history

I'm mostly in shock cause I have passed that building and I've seen it but never knew the story of it.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: mellenORL on June 25, 2013, 03:23:31 pm
Really says it all about that time and place, that the cops could not be bothered to drape a handkerchief over the face of the burned-alive victim trapped in the window grating. Just left him there for the crowd to look at, for hours.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Barbarella on June 25, 2013, 05:04:34 pm
Really says it all about that time and place, that the cops could not be bothered to drape a handkerchief over the face of the burned-alive victim trapped in the window grating. Just left him there for the crowd to look at, for hours.

I went to another site and saw the photo. Words can't describe what I feel.

Should I post it with a spoiler (to hide it)? Not to be sensationalist or a weirdo or anything, but these images must be seen. We can't let this tragedy & injustice be forgotten & images, including really morbid ones, have a tendency to galvanize & make people think.

One things for sure, the bastard who set that fire is experiencing an even worse inferno, many times over!  The folks who gave their approval & did the cover-up deserve the same. No justice on Earth but justice in the next life!

That said, this needs to get out! Folks need to learn about it!
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Witchyjoshy on June 25, 2013, 06:11:10 pm
One things for sure, the bastard who set that fire is experiencing an even worse inferno, many times over!  The folks who gave their approval & did the cover-up deserve the same. No justice on Earth but justice in the next life!

...Did you know that you are scary when you get like this?
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: ThunderWulf on June 25, 2013, 06:16:37 pm
So sad, and it's really depressing that whoever killed all those people 100% got away with it.  That is fucked up beyond words.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: wrightway on June 25, 2013, 06:39:43 pm
The fact no one was charged is disheartening.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Barbarella on June 25, 2013, 06:46:34 pm
One things for sure, the bastard who set that fire is experiencing an even worse inferno, many times over!  The folks who gave their approval & did the cover-up deserve the same. No justice on Earth but justice in the next life!

...Did you know that you are scary when you get like this?

Sorry about that. Keep in mind that I do not believe in eternal damnation. I believe Hell is a temporary, purgatorial state.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Cerim Treascair on June 25, 2013, 06:57:01 pm
One things for sure, the bastard who set that fire is experiencing an even worse inferno, many times over!  The folks who gave their approval & did the cover-up deserve the same. No justice on Earth but justice in the next life!

...Did you know that you are scary when you get like this?

Sorry about that. Keep in mind that I do not believe in eternal damnation. I believe Hell is a temporary, purgatorial state.

And the award for Missing The Fucking Point...
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Barbarella on June 25, 2013, 07:07:28 pm
I just want to know why none of you accept me as "one of you". My passion annoys you. Why? Can't you be tolerant & understanding & willing to overlook my quirks & accept me as one of your own. I am of you! I'm on your side! I'm sorry if I'm annoying.

What is it about me that you hate? Please give me a list. Tell me, point by point & I will address each point.

It's like I don't belong here.

Folks on the main site accept me as I am but here, everyone acts like some high school clique rather than a board full of equals sharing ideas & discussing current affairs.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: ironbite on June 25, 2013, 07:26:14 pm
Honey let me give this to you straight.  You're not an adult.  You want to be, but you're not.  You tend to fly off the handle and act very fundieish at the drop of a hat and then sit around wide-eyed and wondering why the crap you just left on the floor has everyone looking at you funny.  That's why we don't accept you.  Most of us are adults here.  And those who aren't, tend to be very mature for their age.  You...you're not.

Ironbite-and that's disheartning.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: wrightway on June 25, 2013, 07:42:18 pm
Can we ignore Spuki's latest SJW-esque outburst and get back to the subject at hand?

This tragedy has the second greatest body count in New Orleans history, second only to Katrina. The attitude of the community was appalling.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Cataclysm on June 25, 2013, 07:51:19 pm
One things for sure, the bastard who set that fire is experiencing an even worse inferno, many times over!  The folks who gave their approval & did the cover-up deserve the same. No justice on Earth but justice in the next life!

I don't see how torturing people will undo this act, or make them feel remorseful. That isn't justice, it's revenge and satisfaction.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Barbarella on June 25, 2013, 08:15:34 pm
Honey let me give this to you straight.  You're not an adult.  You want to be, but you're not.  You tend to fly off the handle and act very fundieish at the drop of a hat and then sit around wide-eyed and wondering why the crap you just left on the floor has everyone looking at you funny.  That's why we don't accept you.  Most of us are adults here.  And those who aren't, tend to be very mature for their age.  You...you're not.

Ironbite-and that's disheartning.

Honey, I'm 38 years old. I'm much older than you think and, no, I do not have a learning disability.

Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: mellenORL on June 25, 2013, 08:19:42 pm
Spuki has explained in the past, repeatedly, that she has an ongoing challenge with mental illness and also has to struggle to pay for her meds. If her posts annoy you, ignore them. What she posted just now is so clear and clean and heartfelt, and I have never seen her attack or disparage any forum member here. She always apologizes, even when it really is unnecessary. Snark is fine, it's just a small forum, who cares. Some of the personal attacks and disparagement are bad enough to poke a finger in the eye of the forum rules, IIRC . Mature, adult responses don't normally include snide wording and utter dismissal of the person. Now, feel free to diss me for defending her. And confirm what she just said. The snark backs at Spuki are frankly a bit more annoying to read, so I usually skip them. Sigh...all this within a thread condemning hatred and intolerance.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Barbarella on June 25, 2013, 08:20:12 pm
I will just leave this thread because you're nothing but a clique. I will ignore you & everything you say because the words of a snotty, exclusivity clique have ZERO credibility. Sorry, sweetie but I believe NOTHING you say not your words of defeatism, disdain or "America Is Doomed" for you are lying just to rustle my jimmies. I will not let any of you get to me because your words mean nothing.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: ironbite on June 25, 2013, 08:29:05 pm
Honey let me give this to you straight.  You're not an adult.  You want to be, but you're not.  You tend to fly off the handle and act very fundieish at the drop of a hat and then sit around wide-eyed and wondering why the crap you just left on the floor has everyone looking at you funny.  That's why we don't accept you.  Most of us are adults here.  And those who aren't, tend to be very mature for their age.  You...you're not.

Ironbite-and that's disheartning.

Honey, I'm 38 years old. I'm much older than you think and, no, I do not have a learning disability.




.........

Ironbite-(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Jerry-Seinfeld-No-Thanks-and-Leave.gif)
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Zygarde on June 25, 2013, 08:35:26 pm
...Um at the risk of creating a bigger shitstorm (And gods forbid I do that...again) can we please go back to the topic?
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: mellenORL on June 25, 2013, 08:40:39 pm
<snark>
<meme>


sigh...

Anyway, as soon as I get a stipend payment , think I'm gonna go to indigogo and make a little contribution. This documentary project sounds really worthwhile, and it's very timely, what with the upsurge in panicky condemnations from the fringey/fundie side against LGBTQs lately. It's worrisome, because panicky bigots can be violent bigots, as history shows again and again. Making the public aware of this past atrocity, and the very fact that it IS relatively unknown, really underscores the need for people to not just watch and wait, but make up their minds to vote for and support human rights legislation.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Radiation on June 25, 2013, 08:44:22 pm
Yeah let's get back on topic...

It's interesting to me how these cases can become cold and unsolvable. I guess it's because I just find crime to be fascinating and how some things can slide by for so many years.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Zygarde on June 25, 2013, 08:47:20 pm
I'm just surprised that it happened in my home city, but then again I'm not as into the New Orleans gay scene as I wish I was.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: mellenORL on June 25, 2013, 08:53:07 pm
The cool thing though is the tech today can possibly give us some answers, if this case gets enough notoriety to put impetus behind re-examining it.

They are saying in the article that the prime suspect committed suicide a year later. I'm gonna dig around on the web and see if there is a name. I hope it's not a case of deliberate obfuscation on the part of the investigation all those years ago, because, yeah, could be a bit too convenient. Just "a bunch of fags got burned up. Arsonist died. Case closed, people, move along, nothing to see here." That's really not a paranoid notion. The bigotry was intense back then.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Barbarella on June 25, 2013, 09:04:39 pm
Spuki has explained in the past, repeatedly, that she has an ongoing challenge with mental illness and also has to struggle to pay for her meds. If her posts annoy you, ignore them. What she posted just now is so clear and clean and heartfelt, and I have never seen her attack or disparage any forum member here. She always apologizes, even when it really is unnecessary. Snark is fine, it's just a small forum, who cares. Some of the personal attacks and disparagement are bad enough to poke a finger in the eye of the forum rules, IIRC . Mature, adult responses don't normally include snide wording and utter dismissal of the person. Now, feel free to diss me for defending her. And confirm what she just said. The snark backs at Spuki are frankly a bit more annoying to read, so I usually skip them. Sigh...all this within a thread condemning hatred and intolerance.

Thank you for standing up for me. You're a real life-saver & a real friend. Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: mellenORL on June 25, 2013, 09:46:57 pm
De nada, hon !

<I think I has something stuck in mah eye>
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Sylvana on June 26, 2013, 03:28:59 am
The act as atrocious as it may be is interesting in its own right.
I know that buildings have maximum capacities because of fire hazards, and that so many people were unable to escape is a good indication that there were just too many people. To my understanding though this would be from an era when such codes and regulations didn't exist or were not enforced.

It is fascinating how times have changed. What we see now as a great tragedy, at the time was probably seen as a just end by the people around there. Hence the little to no effort in dealing with the crime.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Barbarella on June 26, 2013, 10:19:18 am
The act as atrocious as it may be is interesting in its own right.
I know that buildings have maximum capacities because of fire hazards, and that so many people were unable to escape is a good indication that there were just too many people. To my understanding though this would be from an era when such codes and regulations didn't exist or were not enforced.

It is fascinating how times have changed. What we see now as a great tragedy, at the time was probably seen as a just end by the people around there. Hence the little to no effort in dealing with the crime.

The fact that people today are appalled means we're not doomed as a nation.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Shane for Wax on June 26, 2013, 01:04:25 pm
One of the reasons I still aspire to be a forensic anthropologist is because of things like this that get pushed to the side. Wanted to be forgotten so they are.

The fact that it happened in Nawleans isn't surprising. Not because it's the South (oh boy, hello bayou) but because of the history of the city itself. Lots of stuff has gone on in New Orleans that people would rather forget.

Interesting and sad to know that people would rather ignore it.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Barbarella on June 26, 2013, 04:12:02 pm
One thing that breaks my heart is also that this was a gathering of members of the Metropolitan Community Church, a progressive LGBT christian denomination & they were raising money to help the underprivileged in the area, which makes this even more sad.

Pastor Bill Larson was the gentleman who was caught in the window and burned to death.

Here are the photos. Out of basic decency & discretion I have put them in spoilers.

First photo, a far shot. The whole front of the building. Larson's body is in the bottom of the lower-center window.
(click to show/hide)

Close up of window. Larson's body on the left & firefighter on right. Larson appears recognizable but everything below the chest (off camera) is gone.
(click to show/hide)

A small exhibit about the tragedy on the wall featuring the above close-up photo.
(click to show/hide)


It really speaks of the people's homophobic hatred when nobody bothered to cover Larson's remains with a tarp out of respect for him or others. It's like they wanted to humiliate him, torment his family & for goons to oogle & jeer at him as some "example".
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: SpaceProg on June 26, 2013, 04:43:44 pm
I hope the smoke got him before the fire did.  Makes me shudder to think about what his and the other dead's last moments were like.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: mellenORL on June 26, 2013, 04:47:06 pm
Unfortunately, he was conscious for the most part until trauma shock made him pass out; he had air to breathe. Witnesses heard him screaming in pain.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: SpaceProg on June 26, 2013, 04:48:40 pm
Damn.

My God.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: mellenORL on June 26, 2013, 04:55:05 pm
I read the wiki. The alleged arsonist was a known hustler (male prostitute) with serious mental illness who was reportedly kicked out of the bar earlier in the day, got all crazy mad, and doused the stairwell with lighter fluid, lit it up. He was seen all over the place for  year, and cops never seemed to make an effort to catch him.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Zygarde on June 26, 2013, 04:55:40 pm
Unfortunately, he was conscious for the most part until trauma shock made him pass out; he had air to breathe. Witnesses heard him screaming in pain.

...Excuse me while I go cry in a corner... .
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on July 02, 2013, 03:16:34 am
I'm just gonna, you know, try not to either cry or flip shit. Just horrible.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: WarGoatHK417 on July 03, 2013, 01:19:48 am
Really says it all about that time and place, that the cops could not be bothered to drape a handkerchief over the face of the burned-alive victim trapped in the window grating. Just left him there for the crowd to look at, for hours.

I went to another site and saw the photo. Words can't describe what I feel.

Should I post it with a spoiler (to hide it)? Not to be sensationalist or a weirdo or anything, but these images must be seen. We can't let this tragedy & injustice be forgotten & images, including really morbid ones, have a tendency to galvanize & make people think.
Especially the morbid ones, I might add.  And the accounts of homophobia in Russia.  And the stories of gay Holocaust survivors (http://Holocaust survivors).  And what happens in Uganda...
Gives the lie to the conservative theory that "homosexual perversion of what God intended" and "liberal fascism" is the source of violence in America.  I wonder what Ryan Dobson's (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38961.Be_Intolerant) reaction would be if the pictures you speak of were shoved in his face?  We'd probably get a tap-dance about how "homosexuality should be confronted in a loving manner" and how Uganda and Russia don't count as "Judeo-Christian."
It's also entertaining to imagine the rhetorical contortions Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh would go through to argue that the homophobes in this story were all "liberals". 

Obviously, there's a shitload of evidence that individuals should have rights regardless of whether or not the majority approves. Liberty >>> Democracy.
Sure seems like any time the enforcement of "traditional values" comes into play, the result is pointless suffering (http://www.vice.com/en_dk/read/jesus-africa-really), oppression by the state, and violence against those who are not allowed to defend themselves.  How come, in practice, NONE of these traditional values ever involve the tradtional value of leaving people the fuck alone?
I crossed out "conservative" Edmund Burke and Barry Goldwater deserve a hell of a lot more intellectual legitimacy than the racist theocrats (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buchanan) who get to call themselves "American conservatives."
Obviously, there are tradtional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit) values (http://www.cracked.com/article_20474_5-shockingly-progressive-ideas-from-primitive-cultures.html) that are not necessarily bad. Not that that makes any difference to authoritarians who like to make their highly selective view of history and tradition the authoritative version, as cracked.com notes (http://www.cracked.com/article_19864_6-ridiculous-lies-you-believe-about-founding-america.html).

...Whew.  Nice going, Spukikitty, now you've got me ranting.  Enthusiasm really is contagious-- or, more accurately, "someone is RIGHT on the internet."  Someone needs to make that a meme.

.  Also, I apologize in advance to anyone who feels spammed by the cracked.com links.  What can I say?  Take with a grain of salt (http://www.jasoncolavito.com/1/post/2012/05/the-truth-behind-the-native-american-discovery-of-america-in-60-bce.html), of course.
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Thejebusfire on July 03, 2013, 01:32:05 am
Unfortunately, he was conscious for the most part until trauma shock made him pass out; he had air to breathe. Witnesses heard him screaming in pain.

Holy shit...
Title: Re: Largest gay mass murder in U.S. History 40 years later.
Post by: Barbarella on July 03, 2013, 12:26:44 pm
Really says it all about that time and place, that the cops could not be bothered to drape a handkerchief over the face of the burned-alive victim trapped in the window grating. Just left him there for the crowd to look at, for hours.

I went to another site and saw the photo. Words can't describe what I feel.

Should I post it with a spoiler (to hide it)? Not to be sensationalist or a weirdo or anything, but these images must be seen. We can't let this tragedy & injustice be forgotten & images, including really morbid ones, have a tendency to galvanize & make people think.
Especially the morbid ones, I might add.  And the accounts of homophobia in Russia.  And the stories of gay Holocaust survivors (http://Holocaust survivors).  And what happens in Uganda...
Gives the lie to the conservative theory that "homosexual perversion of what God intended" and "liberal fascism" is the source of violence in America.  I wonder what Ryan Dobson's (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38961.Be_Intolerant) reaction would be if the pictures you speak of were shoved in his face?  We'd probably get a tap-dance about how "homosexuality should be confronted in a loving manner" and how Uganda and Russia don't count as "Judeo-Christian."
It's also entertaining to imagine the rhetorical contortions Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh would go through to argue that the homophobes in this story were all "liberals". 

Obviously, there's a shitload of evidence that individuals should have rights regardless of whether or not the majority approves. Liberty >>> Democracy.
Sure seems like any time the enforcement of "traditional values" comes into play, the result is pointless suffering (http://www.vice.com/en_dk/read/jesus-africa-really), oppression by the state, and violence against those who are not allowed to defend themselves.  How come, in practice, NONE of these traditional values ever involve the tradtional value of leaving people the fuck alone?
I crossed out "conservative" Edmund Burke and Barry Goldwater deserve a hell of a lot more intellectual legitimacy than the racist theocrats (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buchanan) who get to call themselves "American conservatives."
Obviously, there are tradtional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit) values (http://www.cracked.com/article_20474_5-shockingly-progressive-ideas-from-primitive-cultures.html) that are not necessarily bad. Not that that makes any difference to authoritarians who like to make their highly selective view of history and tradition the authoritative version, as cracked.com notes (http://www.cracked.com/article_19864_6-ridiculous-lies-you-believe-about-founding-america.html).

...Whew.  Nice going, Spukikitty, now you've got me ranting.  Enthusiasm really is contagious-- or, more accurately, "someone is RIGHT on the internet."  Someone needs to make that a meme.

.  Also, I apologize in advance to anyone who feels spammed by the cracked.com links.  What can I say?  Take with a grain of salt (http://www.jasoncolavito.com/1/post/2012/05/the-truth-behind-the-native-american-discovery-of-america-in-60-bce.html), of course.

Your rant was pure awesome! No problemo! I agree 100%! :)