Author Topic: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these  (Read 23569 times)

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Offline Thejebusfire

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2012, 01:23:16 pm »
Miss Piggy wasn't the only girl Muppet. There was also Janice. Not that that makes much difference though...

Offline TheL

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2012, 06:44:53 pm »
Also, the last one has an https in the URL--try removing it. :)
all the others do to too

The number of films that fail to pass the Bechdel test really is surprising, particularly when it comes to major blockbusters. Even the ones that contain multiple strong, female characters will often fail it.

There are even films that fail both the Bechdel Test AND the Reverse Bechdel Test.
er - Nature films?  March of the Penguins and such?

Romances.

"I need a man."

"Here, go to this club/join this dating website/I'll set you up with a blind date."

"Oh my god, she's beautiful."

"She hates me.  What did I do wrong?"

"Well, son, let me tell you about women."

"I love you!"  "I love you too!!"

"I'll never let go, Jack!"
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Offline Her3tiK

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2012, 08:37:34 pm »
I have to take issue with a lot of the shots aimed at movies and games, specifically those that take place hundreds or thousands of years ago. Many of the story arcs before the 60s would be at odds with history if the protagonist was female. While not all of these games or movies are particularly "historically accurate" in many respects, it would be especially odd for, say, Band of Brothers or God of War to have major female characters, given the cultures and time periods they're based on. Like it or not, there simply wasn't much opportunity for women to do anything significant without sparking some kind of irrational witch hunt, so putting a woman on the Omaha Beach or going toe-to-toe with a Minotaur would be unusual to say the least.
Same thing goes for comic books; if you're going to get worked up over the treatment of women in their story arcs, please try to pay attention to when the arc in question was published. It's not exactly fair to get worked up over a story that was written before the women's rights movement even began. Does that make it any less stupid? Of course not. It is, however, unfair to take the piss out of the author for writing something that was, at the time, not at all challenged ideologically.

With that said, fuck the Transformers movies for adding love interests that were never in the fucking TV shows. Those were a horrendous abuse of female stereotypes that added nothing to the (admittedly atrocious) plots. Not that Transformers has ever had good plots, but still... Also, fuck every video game (looking at you LoL) that insists that women characters have to look like whores when they're fighting, and makes the support/healer characters either female or gay. No sane person would ever wear heels, a mini skirt, and hair down to their ass in a fight, at least not if they wanted to win, so knock it off.
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Ego: +5

There are a number of ways, though my favourite is simply to take them by surprise. They're just walking down the street, minding their own business when suddenly, WHACK! Penis to the face.

Offline ironbite

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2012, 08:42:17 pm »
Uh...Carly was in the shows.

Ironbite-Megan Fox was not.

Offline Her3tiK

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2012, 08:59:58 pm »
I honestly couldn't make myself watch the entirety of the original series. I couldn't even tell you who was who outside of Optimus and Megatron because of how rarely the other characters were named or introduced.
Her3tik, you have groupies.
Ego: +5

There are a number of ways, though my favourite is simply to take them by surprise. They're just walking down the street, minding their own business when suddenly, WHACK! Penis to the face.

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2012, 01:32:08 am »
What I really love about this is that even TV tropes calls her out on her BS.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Offline ironbite

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2012, 01:35:09 am »
Oh where?

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2012, 01:38:40 am »
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/FeministFrequency

The first one, and kind of "Stalker with a Crush"
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline syaoranvee

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Offline Kristine

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2012, 12:54:40 pm »
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/FeministFrequency

The first one, and kind of "Stalker with a Crush"
a few of the observations might be legit criticisms but some seem to put words in her mouth that she never said or implied...
From that site...
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Suggesting that The Bible is bad for women's rights because of Mary being impregnated by God.
- She never suggested the bible is bad for women - only that this situation is yet one more example of pregnancy being portrayed as an uncontrollable scary thing.

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Lumping Y: The Last Man and the Daughters of Amazon therein as example of "crazy man hating Straw Feminists without any realistic feminists showing up" when not only do calmer more grounded feminists appear but Brian K. Vaughan explicitly created the characters as examples of one type of feminist school of thought and other characters as opposing ones.
  and
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Complaining about The Powerpuff Girls' parody of a Straw Feminist and forgetting the character was revealed to not be a feminist at all.
The question still stands - why do you need them as bad guys at all?  Did they also have episodes about abusive misogynist men to show the reason women NEED to stick up for themselves?  Or how legit some of those straw feminist characters points really are?

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Internet Backdraft: When she opened a Kickstarter campaign to get funds to create a new "Tropes V.S. Women in Videogames" series, a lot of people got mad.
  - so?  people get mad when you defend LBGT rights as well - not sure what the point is.

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Strawman Has a Point: The Femme Fatale episode of The Powerpuff Girls featured the main characters, (under FF's influence) refusing to clean their own rooms and giving the Death Glare to a boy roughhousing with a girl. Sarkeesian claims this is depiction is disrespectful because women getting disproportionately bullied and doing the lions share of the housework are Real Life problems, and that the program is whitewashing them by presenting Townesville as unrealistically fair.
is the poster saying that getting disproportionately bullied and doing the lions share of the housework do NOT happen?


Offline Askold

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2012, 01:24:11 pm »
The question still stands - why do you need them as bad guys at all?  Did they also have episodes about abusive misogynist men to show the reason women NEED to stick up for themselves?  Or how legit some of those straw feminist characters points really are?

1. For the sake I fairness I do admit that having bad guys like that would not be a bad thing. Although it would fall into the category of "anvilicious." (Or "Some anvils need to be dropped" if done well.)

2. I think the theme of Femme fatale was "good cause done badly/used as an excuse to commit evil." So the male equivalent would have been a "mens' right movement" guy who complains about the poor treatment of men in divorces and how women are more likely to get custody of children etc. and then uses it as an excuse to commit crimes, or something like that.

3. Are there any other causes apart from feminism that should not be used as a villain? Even if the villain is clearly not really supporting said cause and merely uses it as a cover or is just misguided ("misguided hero causes trouble although trying to do good" is probably a trope of its own.)



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Strawman Has a Point: The Femme Fatale episode of The Powerpuff Girls featured the main characters, (under FF's influence) refusing to clean their own rooms and giving the Death Glare to a boy roughhousing with a girl. Sarkeesian claims this is depiction is disrespectful because women getting disproportionately bullied and doing the lions share of the housework are Real Life problems, and that the program is whitewashing them by presenting Townesville as unrealistically fair.
is the poster saying that getting disproportionately bullied and doing the lions share of the housework do NOT happen?
Judging from "strawman has a point" I would assume that the commenter is in fact saying that Sarkeesian did make a good point. (Well that's how I understood that comment.)
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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2012, 01:26:29 pm »
is the poster saying that getting disproportionately bullied and doing the lions share of the housework do NOT happen?

How did you even get that impression? The entry is stating that the woman in the video is essentially stating the trope title.

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2012, 02:15:15 pm »

2. I think the theme of Femme fatale was "good cause done badly/used as an excuse to commit evil." So the male equivalent would have been a "mens' right movement" guy who complains about the poor treatment of men in divorces and how women are more likely to get custody of children etc. and then uses it as an excuse to commit crimes, or something like that.


They did have a similar episode called "Members Only", although they weren't MRAs, they were "testosterone poisoned", and instead of committing crime, they're huge jerks. They repent at the end and start wearing dresses. It was a pretty weird episode.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline Fpqxz

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2012, 09:43:50 pm »
All the inaccuracies you complain about in FeministFrequency/Anita Sarkeesian's videos are likely intentional.

People like her get attention and money from controversy.  If you think she is interested in "advancing" anything other than her own career and public profile, you're being quite naive.

Yeah, I know, that's cynical as fuck.  But I've seen far too many "social crusader" types on both sides of the aisle who are in it more for themselves than for anyone else.
Read some real news:  Allgov.com, JURIST

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Offline Cataclysm

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Re: OMG - Tropes vs. Women - I love these
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2012, 10:05:13 pm »
All the inaccuracies you complain about in FeministFrequency/Anita Sarkeesian's videos are likely intentional.

People like her get attention and money from controversy.  If you think she is interested in "advancing" anything other than her own career and public profile, you're being quite naive.

Yeah, I know, that's cynical as fuck.  But I've seen far too many "social crusader" types on both sides of the aisle who are in it more for themselves than for anyone else.

Okay, I thought of a few alternatives that restore my faith in humanity. Not really. She is to feminists what Schlafly is to conservatives.



Okay... that was too mean. Maybe like what Crowder is to conservatives.

Here they are.

1. She's a feminist doing stupid stuff to make feminists want to disassociate from her and use more facts and talk about things that matter.

2. She's secretly an MRA who is making fun of feminists and how they find sexism when it isn't there. Like Steven Colbert and Edward Current. Except feminist. And not saying it to her audience.

3. She's amassing an audience of idiots with her videos that have little research and fact, but tells them what they want to hear, and then actually saying things that actually matter so the stupid people that watch her videos will be less dumb.

4. A combo of the above.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

Quote
Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.