Author Topic: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial  (Read 5645 times)

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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2014, 10:40:07 pm »
Okay, maybe it is racially motivated.  However, we shouldn't automatically assume that just because he happens to be black.  I, personally, am inclined to believe it is a racist incident.  On the other hand, I don't know enough of the details to assume so.

Okay, then where's all the white kids in jail for things they didn't do?
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QueenofHearts

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2014, 11:09:21 pm »
Okay, maybe it is racially motivated.  However, we shouldn't automatically assume that just because he happens to be black.  I, personally, am inclined to believe it is a racist incident.  On the other hand, I don't know enough of the details to assume so.

Okay, then where's all the white kids in jail for things they didn't do?

The converse is "where are all the other black kids in jail for things they didn't do?"

And, of course, NYPD being the scumbag force it is won't tell us. I mean, the minute we know the number is the minute those people are released. So, this question isn't the best way to make that point. Instead, it would be better to say that the NYPD has a long history of racism and abuse of power and (surprise-surprise) the victim here is black.

I mean, the link I provided shows it best, a white guy of affluence acts suspicious trying to attract attention and gets none. He then spray paints a public building within sight of officers. Finally, he turned himself in and was let go because the police didn't believe he would do it.

I mean, after reading this story, I realize the NYPD is a two headed monster. One is tyrannical and domineering, harassing you at every possible moment if you're not a cis-straight-white person. Stop and frisk, beat downs, using gender identity as probable cause for charges. The other head is fucking stupid. It's a bumbling and inept officer Barbrady incarnate. It couldn't find weed on you if you blew pot smoke in its face. But of course, only if you're white.

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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2014, 11:12:36 pm »
Okay, maybe it is racially motivated.  However, we shouldn't automatically assume that just because he happens to be black.  I, personally, am inclined to believe it is a racist incident.  On the other hand, I don't know enough of the details to assume so.

Okay, then where's all the white kids in jail for things they didn't do?

The converse is "where are all the other black kids in jail for things they didn't do?"

And, of course, NYPD being the scumbag force it is won't tell us. I mean, the minute we know the number is the minute those people are released. So, this question isn't the best way to make that point. Instead, it would be better to say that the NYPD has a long history of racism and abuse of power and (surprise-surprise) the victim here is black.

I mean, the link I provided shows it best, a white guy of affluence acts suspicious trying to attract attention and gets none. He then spray paints a public building within sight of officers. Finally, he turned himself in and was let go because the police didn't believe he would do it.

I mean, after reading this story, I realize the NYPD is a two headed monster. One is tyrannical and domineering, harassing you at every possible moment if you're not a cis-straight-white person. Stop and frisk, beat downs, using gender identity as probable cause for charges. The other head is fucking stupid. It's a bumbling and inept officer Barbrady incarnate. It couldn't find weed on you if you blew pot smoke in its face. But of course, only if you're white.

TL;DR- Fight the power
Yeah, the NYPD is full of racists, brutes, incompetents, and other shitheads.  However, we can't assume that every injustice carried out against a racial minority is motivated by racism.  Personally, I've seen far too many people crying wolf about racism.  As a result, I won't assume something is racist unless there's actual evidence pointing to that.

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2014, 11:20:28 pm »
I like to define racism as an innate trust of some and a predisposed cynicism of others. By that definition, and the story I presented (combined with stop-and-frisk stats*) the NYPD as a whole certainly lives up to it.

*It's just coincidence that 90% of the people they stop are black and latino

Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2014, 11:48:06 pm »
Paragon: You're correct about it being impossible to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that any single case like this one is related to race, barring overt racial commentary from the people responsible, but when this kind of stuff keeps happening to black people, I think it's perfectly fair to look at race as a potential (and let's be honest, likely) cause of the incident.

As far as this stuff happening to white people: People of all races get screwed over by the legal system, but it's indisputable that it happens to minorities far more often than it does to white people, and almost never happens because someone is white.
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Offline gyeonghwa

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2014, 12:20:42 am »
Black and Latino kids are more likely to be arrested for crimes than white kids and yet no more likely to be the perpetrators of crime than white kids. In all of NYPD's stop and frisk policy black and Latino people were no more likely to be carrying illegal objects and yet were more likely to be stopped. White people (especially rich ones)* are actually more likely to be users of illegal drugs and yet black people are more likely to be arrested for illegal drugs**. Things like this is why people see the subject and jump to the conclusion that it was about race. Do white people get injustice done to them by the police? Of course. But you have to look at the discrepancy between races and incarceration. It would take a lot of willful ignorance to not see race playing into it.

*Poor people are less likely to be users of drugs so we all know whose getting off the hook here. 
**Obviously not including the abuse of legal drugs.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2014, 12:21:59 am »
Black and Latino kids are more likely to be arrested for crimes than white kids and yet no more likely to be the perpetrators of crime than white kids.
Is that per capita?

Offline gyeonghwa

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2014, 12:29:26 am »
Like proportionately to their respective populations. Here is NAACP's stats for adult incarceration if you are interested. http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet
I also have an article concerning queer youths of color but that's for another time.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2014, 12:31:14 am »
Like proportionately to their respective populations. Here is NAACP's stats for adult incarceration if you are interested. http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet
I also have an article concerning queer youths of color but that's for another time.
Okay, that's probably legitimate racism.

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2014, 03:54:47 am »
Oh well if it's legitimate racism then the body has the means to shut that down.

Ironbite-do you even listen to yourself?

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2014, 04:52:13 am »
Oh well if it's legitimate racism then the body has the means to shut that down.

Ironbite-do you even listen to yourself?
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2014, 09:08:38 am »
In any case, Mr. Browder probably has grounds for one whopper of a lawsuit.

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2014, 12:46:15 pm »
do you really think a white kid would have been suspected
Maybe.

Not by the NYPD. Not if he's white.

To be fair, he was not only white, but also in a suit when he went to turn himself in.  It doesn't excuse the lazy behavior of the police by any means, but I do think the suit was a factor in the cops ignoring him.  Class can prejudice people just as much as race.
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Offline Old Viking

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2014, 04:41:58 pm »
I favor a policy of tossing random teens in jail without cause for three years.  No racial or ethnic favoritism.  The practice will help keep our young people alert.
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Offline MadCatTLX

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Re: Innocent teenager spends three years in jail without trial
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2014, 05:15:13 pm »
do you really think a white kid would have been suspected
Maybe.

Not by the NYPD. Not if he's white.

To be fair, he was not only white, but also in a suit when he went to turn himself in.  It doesn't excuse the lazy behavior of the police by any means, but I do think the suit was a factor in the cops ignoring him.  Class can prejudice people just as much as race.

Yeah, a guy in a suit isn't someone you immediately thing of as being who to look at regarding graffiti. Of two people, a black guy in a nice suit and a white kid dressed like a "thug" or a "skater", who would immediately stand out as more likely to have been spraying paint on a building? Granted, unless you see one of them actually spraying the paint or walking away with the can in hand, there's not much reason to think it was either one.

Besides, who wants paint on their nice suit?
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