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Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: ironbite on May 09, 2016, 05:05:16 pm

Title: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: ironbite on May 09, 2016, 05:05:16 pm
So perhaps you guys have heard of HB2 in North Carolina.  It's a law that was passed in 12 hours that made it illegal for transgendered people to go to the bathroom unless the plumbing matches the sign on the door.  And of course there's been a ton of backlash.  So on Thursday, the DOJ gave North Carolina until today, May 9th, to either repeal the law or face the consequences.  Well North Carolina had an answer to that.  They sued the DoJ in order to continue to discriminate (http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/09/politics/north-carolina-hb2-justice-department-deadline/)

Quote
North Carolina casts its so-called bathroom bill as a "common sense bodily privacy law." The federal government calls it discrimination, pure and simple.
The two will face off in federal court in North Carolina after two of the state's top officials Monday sued the U.S. Justice Department, Attorney General Loretta Lynch and one of her assistants.
The lawsuit calls last week's demand that the state "remedy" its Public Facilities Privacy and Security Act by Monday or risk being in violation of federal law "a baseless and blatant overreach."
The act bans individuals from using public bathrooms that do not correspond with their biological sex, as dictated by their birth certificates.
In its letter last week to Gov. Pat McCrory, the Justice Department asserted, "Access to sex-segregated restrooms and other workplace facilities consistent with gender identity is a term, condition or privilege of employment. Denying such access to transgender individuals, whose gender identity is different from their gender assigned at birth, while affording it to similarly situated non-transgender employees, violates Title VII."

Oh this was gonna get fun in a second because the Federal Government is now suing North Carolina in response.

Quote
The U.S. government filed a lawsuit Monday against North Carolina saying that state entities were in violation of provisions in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, Title IX the Education Acts Amendment of 1972 and the Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act that outlaw discrimination on the basis of sex. The lawsuit comes hours after Gov. Pat McCrory sued the Justice Department, asking a federal court to rule whether the state's so-called bathroom bill violated U.S. law.

The amazing thing I've seen from Conservitards is that they really don't do well against shit like this.  They lost the fight on gay marriage because they're ass backwards and are now creating an opportunity to expand the the Civil Rights Act with this shit.  And McCrory, an amazing politician if I ever saw one, was on the news cycle this weekend getting his ass kicked when pressed to name a single transgendered assault in a bathroom.  His answer?  He can't cite any cases in which someone who is transgendered assaulted someone in the bathroom.  Amazing.

Ironbite-oh and the Feds didn't give North Carolina enough time to respond even though they had 3 working days, 5 if you count the weekend.  The poor babies.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: niam2023 on May 09, 2016, 05:24:47 pm
Hopefully they drive McCrory into bankruptcy. North Carolina evidently learned nothing from the civil war. Maybe Sherman should've burned them too.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: Dakota Bob on May 09, 2016, 06:02:48 pm
Now that's a bold move, Cotton! let's see how it works out for them.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 09, 2016, 06:28:34 pm
Don't these people have anything better to do?
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: dpareja on May 09, 2016, 06:29:33 pm
They're trying to whip up enough anger about social issues to get all the social conservatives out to the polls. Same reason you see laws about abortion or sexual orientation in election years.

EDIT: Also, I wonder if Justice Kennedy feels as strongly about gender identity as he does about sexual orientation.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: Askold on May 10, 2016, 12:38:21 am
As usual, I can only believe in two possible reasons for this stupidity:

a) They are so deluded that they think they are right and that what they do is legal. They are simply incapable of understanding how this could be seen as discrimination.

b) They understand fully how they are violating the laws but they pander to their voters. By fighting this useless and impossible to win battle they can afterwards shift the blame to Obama, supreme court and Democrats. That the constitution was against this law is a simple matter that can be forgotten when those "liberal forces" that try to ruin USA are much easier to blame. It might even help them do better in the next elections if people only remember the bits about this fight that the GOP wants them to remember.

The truth is probably a mixture of those two. And once again GOP is delaying the inevitable and spending government money on trivial matters just to make it look like they are standing up to their voters. It might even help them do better in the next elections if people only remember the bits about this fight that the GOP wants them to remember.

...And in reality if they wanted to prevent these attacks on women and children by transgenders (which appear to be extremely rare or nonexistent) they could have made a law requiring that public toilets are separate bathrooms instead of rooms with stalls and common washing area. ...Sure that would also cost a lot of money but it would have been legal and then you wouldn't need gendered bathrooms anymore. Heck, it would have helped people who like privacy as well.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: rookie on May 10, 2016, 01:06:33 am
I've been saying there are fights the GOP wants to be seen fighting. Doesn't matter if they win or lose. Just as long as they're seen fighting "The Good Fight".
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: Askold on May 10, 2016, 01:13:36 am
...And these fights are probably a big part of why Trump is suddenly so popular.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: Random Gal on May 10, 2016, 06:45:09 am
As usual, I can only believe in two possible reasons for this stupidity:

a) They are so deluded that they think they are right and that what they do is legal. They are simply incapable of understanding how this could be seen as discrimination.

b) They understand fully how they are violating the laws but they pander to their voters. By fighting this useless and impossible to win battle they can afterwards shift the blame to Obama, supreme court and Democrats. That the constitution was against this law is a simple matter that can be forgotten when those "liberal forces" that try to ruin USA are much easier to blame. It might even help them do better in the next elections if people only remember the bits about this fight that the GOP wants them to remember.

The truth is probably a mixture of those two. And once again GOP is delaying the inevitable and spending government money on trivial matters just to make it look like they are standing up to their voters. It might even help them do better in the next elections if people only remember the bits about this fight that the GOP wants them to remember.

...And in reality if they wanted to prevent these attacks on women and children by transgenders (which appear to be extremely rare or nonexistent) they could have made a law requiring that public toilets are separate bathrooms instead of rooms with stalls and common washing area. ...Sure that would also cost a lot of money but it would have been legal and then you wouldn't need gendered bathrooms anymore. Heck, it would have helped people who like privacy as well.

I'm pretty sure B is the truth. They want to set up something like this, have it fail, and then point at those evil liberals as the reason why. It is no coincidence that this happened in an election year either; the Republicans did this deliberately to give people a reason to vote for them.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: dpareja on May 10, 2016, 07:00:30 am
As usual, I can only believe in two possible reasons for this stupidity:

a) They are so deluded that they think they are right and that what they do is legal. They are simply incapable of understanding how this could be seen as discrimination.

b) They understand fully how they are violating the laws but they pander to their voters. By fighting this useless and impossible to win battle they can afterwards shift the blame to Obama, supreme court and Democrats. That the constitution was against this law is a simple matter that can be forgotten when those "liberal forces" that try to ruin USA are much easier to blame. It might even help them do better in the next elections if people only remember the bits about this fight that the GOP wants them to remember.

The truth is probably a mixture of those two. And once again GOP is delaying the inevitable and spending government money on trivial matters just to make it look like they are standing up to their voters. It might even help them do better in the next elections if people only remember the bits about this fight that the GOP wants them to remember.

...And in reality if they wanted to prevent these attacks on women and children by transgenders (which appear to be extremely rare or nonexistent) they could have made a law requiring that public toilets are separate bathrooms instead of rooms with stalls and common washing area. ...Sure that would also cost a lot of money but it would have been legal and then you wouldn't need gendered bathrooms anymore. Heck, it would have helped people who like privacy as well.

I'm pretty sure B is the truth. They want to set up something like this, have it fail, and then point at those evil liberals as the reason why. It is no coincidence that this happened in an election year either; the Republicans did this deliberately to give people a reason to vote for them.

I wouldn't know where to look, but I wonder if these sorts of "bathroom bills" are appearing as ballot initiatives anywhere.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: Askold on May 10, 2016, 07:36:37 am
"Let's waste tax payer money on stupid shit and then complain about the Democrats wasting tax payer money on stupid shit!" -the fiscal conservatives
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: pyro on May 10, 2016, 12:19:20 pm
Maybe it sounds really dumb, but wouldn't this kind of dumb crap get left-leaning people to go to the polls as well? It's certainly making me want to vote more.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: The_Queen on May 10, 2016, 12:39:11 pm
Maybe it sounds really dumb, but wouldn't this kind of dumb crap get left-leaning people to go to the polls as well? It's certainly making me want to vote more.

Yeah, this isn't really an election year gambit as much as it is a stupid bill that coincides with an election year. I think most of the reason for this bill is a pushback against SCoTUS' Obergefell decision last year. The bigots want to hate on someone, and now that gay people are off limits, trans individuals are the next group to pursue. If North Carolina really wanted to make it an election issue, then it would probably do what the GOP did in 2004 with gay marriage and put the issue to a popular vote. It really just screams of bigots in power realizing that they're losing their power, and doing what they can to codify their bigotry while the time remains ripe.

Now, if the Dems wanted, they could make a wedge issue this November out of legalizing marijuana, as studies show young people--especially young, liberal people--turn out in higher numbers to vote when that is on the ballot. Come on Democratic Party, make it happen!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlPqxBlQMg8

Samantha Bee nails it again
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: Askold on May 12, 2016, 12:43:17 am
...Ouch. The GOP sure got busy in the last few years. At least on state level it seems, I was under the impression that they had done nothing at all in the US government in the last 8 years after Obama was elected.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: dpareja on May 12, 2016, 12:55:37 am
...Ouch. The GOP sure got busy in the last few years. At least on state level it seems, I was under the impression that they had done nothing at all in the US government in the last 8 years after Obama was elected.

Queen (or someone) can correct me on my misconceptions here, but what I've been given to understand is that because the US Constitution left residual powers to the states in setting up the country's federal structure, the states have a great deal of influence over people's day-to-day lives, generally rather more than the federal government does. (The federal government can influence state policy, but it's often done by bribing them; as I recall, the drinking age in the US is uniformly 21 because the federal government threatened to withhold some highway funding from noncompliant states.) So they might not be able to do all that much federally, but since people don't pay nearly as much attention to state elections as they should, given the power state governments wield, they were able to implement a lot of their agenda (restricting abortions, enacting voter ID laws, passing bathroom bills...) where a lot of people just don't notice, because all their attention is focused on the circus in DC.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: mellenORL on May 12, 2016, 10:34:19 am
This is why ALEC focuses on manipulating all 50 state legislatures. The states have a great deal of power over everyday matters, and the pols who run for and get re-elected to them do so in relative obscurity. Their names are way down on the ballot both in generals and midterms, and so are the backdoor entry to power for corrupt hacks. Most voters have no clue, having rarely seen campaign ads or news about state rep candidates - and judges - and will just vote a straight party line ballot. Plenty opportunity for all the ALEC-purchased newbies and old fucksters to get and stay in. They present ALEC sponsored bills that are usually copy/pasted from what ALEC hands them, and some of them cheekily push the vote buttons at any unoccupied desks of their immediate physical neighbors during sessions in the chambers.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: ironbite on May 12, 2016, 11:08:52 am
Ahh let's just continue with some North Carolina fuckery that's kinda related to their fucktard of a governor with this. (http://www.salisburypost.com/2016/05/10/board-amends-policies-to-allow-pepper-spray-shaving-razors-on-campuses/)

Quote
SALISBURY — High school students will be allowed to carry mace in the 2016-2017 school year after the Rowan-Salisbury Board of Education agreed to remove prohibitive language and amend its policy.

The board spent some time at its Monday work session in the Wallace Education Forum debating whether pepper spray and other defensive sprays, as well as personal shaving razors, should be allowed on school campuses.

The discussion is a continuation of a debate that occurred at an April meeting.

The policies in question are 5027 and 4333, which detail weapons and other threats to safety.

Board member Travis Allen was in favor of allowing the canisters on school campuses, as long as they remained locked in student vehicles. However, board Chairman Josh Wagner pointed out that students aren’t likely to check their purses or bags to remove the spray every time they go to school – and then they would be found in violation of the policy.

“And you start this whole kind of snowball. So I don’t want to put the students in this weird situation when they didn’t really do anything, they just happened to forget to check their purse every single day,” he said.

Board member Chuck Hughes was in favor of the sprays on campuses, saying that in his mind, they were purely defensive. He also referenced HB2, saying that the sprays might be useful.

“Depending on how the courts rule on the bathroom issues, it may be a pretty valuable tool to have on the female students if they go to the bathroom, not knowing who may come in,” he said.

But members were still concerned that the sprays could be used for purposes other than defense. The board’s lawyer, Ken Soo, said that there have been few cases of a student using Mace against a teacher.

“I imagine every football game there is on Friday night there’s more pepper spray in the stands in pocketbooks and key chains and you know, we never have an issue with it,” Allen said.

- See more at: http://www.salisburypost.com/2016/05/10/board-amends-policies-to-allow-pepper-spray-shaving-razors-on-campuses/#sthash.D0Rq19ZN.dpuf

Yeah that's right.  A school county in North Carolina is letting students bring pepper spray onto campus in case some nasty transgendered person happens to need to go potty.  And for that, I look squarely at the lawyer who pointed out this.

Quote
But members were still concerned that the sprays could be used for purposes other than defense. The board’s lawyer, Ken Soo, said that there have been few cases of a student using Mace against a teacher.

Or some bastard assaulting a weaker student with a can of mace just because he isn't as well liked and that's just escalation and boys will be boys and AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Ironbite-*super novas*
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: Svata on May 13, 2016, 05:53:42 am
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/obama-administration-title-ix-transgender-student-rights-223149

Suck it, NC.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: ironbite on May 13, 2016, 06:05:12 am
Boom
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 17, 2016, 09:51:35 pm
I was glancing at Yahoo and saw this:

https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/women-harassed-in-bathroom-for-appearing-205610620.html (https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/women-harassed-in-bathroom-for-appearing-205610620.html)

Wonder how long it'll be before something like this happens in North Carolina.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: dpareja on May 17, 2016, 11:50:34 pm
Prediction: there is going to be at least one murder over someone trans-looking going in the bathroom.

At which point the fearmongering becomes about how trans people are trying to take away our guns.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: Askold on May 26, 2016, 01:08:40 am
I just heard on the radio that eleven (11!?) states have sued Obama because they claim that he has no authority to order the states to allow trans people to use whichever bathroom suits their gender better.

If true is this just more waste of money and time?
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: dpareja on May 26, 2016, 01:26:45 am
I just heard on the radio that eleven (11!?) states have sued Obama because they claim that he has no authority to order the states to allow trans people to use whichever bathroom suits their gender better.

If true is this just more waste of money and time?

It's not necessarily baseless. The claim, essentially, would be that the sections of the law the administration is claiming give it the authority to issue the orders in question do not, in fact, grant that authority. And this might stand up: one could argue that if those sections already gave the executive branch the authority to issue the order in question, there would be no need for the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and yet that bill has been proposed in almost every Congress since 1994 and has never passed.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: The_Queen on May 26, 2016, 02:05:31 am
Prediction: there is going to be at least one murder over someone trans-looking going in the bathroom.

Aww, you're so cute when you think modern media stories are new issues that haven't already happened. I just want to take your cuteness, put it in a bottle, and rub it into my skin to keep myself youthful and naive.

I just heard on the radio that eleven (11!?) states have sued Obama because they claim that he has no authority to order the states to allow trans people to use whichever bathroom suits their gender better.

If true is this just more waste of money and time?

It's not necessarily baseless. The claim, essentially, would be that the sections of the law the administration is claiming give it the authority to issue the orders in question do not, in fact, grant that authority. And this might stand up: one could argue that if those sections already gave the executive branch the authority to issue the order in question, there would be no need for the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and yet that bill has been proposed in almost every Congress since 1994 and has never passed.

This isn't an ENDA issue, but Title IX since it's school students.
Title: Re: North Carolina sues to hate
Post by: dpareja on May 26, 2016, 03:55:27 am
I just heard on the radio that eleven (11!?) states have sued Obama because they claim that he has no authority to order the states to allow trans people to use whichever bathroom suits their gender better.

If true is this just more waste of money and time?

It's not necessarily baseless. The claim, essentially, would be that the sections of the law the administration is claiming give it the authority to issue the orders in question do not, in fact, grant that authority. And this might stand up: one could argue that if those sections already gave the executive branch the authority to issue the order in question, there would be no need for the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and yet that bill has been proposed in almost every Congress since 1994 and has never passed.

This isn't an ENDA issue, but Title IX since it's school students.

Didn't the administration also reference Title VII in its order?

Also, I'm not saying the claims have merit, only that they don't necessarily not have merit.