Author Topic: Senate: American women must register for the draft  (Read 4325 times)

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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2016, 04:34:11 pm »
Well that's an unusually sensible decision from your rather clownshoes government.

Can't wait for the feminist backlash though

*grabs popcorn*

Well, some feminists certainly aren't happy.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2016, 05:51:15 pm »
Heard on NPR that Obama is expected to veto this for other reasons (it's part of a larger bill with more problematic parts).
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline Sylvana

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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2016, 08:58:39 am »
Late to the party.

I have an unusual problem with this bill.
I am really all for equity, and I don't care what you have between your legs when it comes to fighting a war, but it seems like this could cause some previously unconsidered problems.

Normally when countries enacted the draft, they relied on the women who remained to essentially run the economy  and maintain the background of the war effort.
 
Yanking such a large population in its totality into becoming soldiers feels like it would critically hamstring both industry and the economy. Of course I am probably overthinking things or over representing the influence of that age group. I just think that effectively plucking those people out of society would cause some issues. There are a lot of people aged 18 to 25, its a heft portion of a nations population.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2016, 09:51:23 am »
If we're lucky, maybe it'll make them think twice about actually firing up a draft.  That, and unless we're fighting the second coming of Hitler, we'd see unbelievable push-back and demonstrations and draft dodging in numbers that'd put Vietnam to shame.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2016, 10:10:55 am »
a) The first time that modern industrial nations had the draft was in WW1 and at that point the powers did not believe that women could handle the industry or the war effort (the draft was simply a desperate measure to get more troops in this new kind of war. Particularly for Britain.) The surprise at women being able to do "man's job" was one of the reasons why suffragette movement and women's voting rights got a lot of support after the war.

b) The last time USA had the draft it was not a mobilization of all males. It was a large scale semi-random draft of men but not a total mobilization and a lot of people simply were never called up to join the military. (And not just the ones who were too wealthy, powerful or important not to be sent to the meat grinder.)

c) The main advantages from a draft are two: First that it is a way to get a lot more recruits than you would by only taking in the volunteers. Second that with a draft you get the kinds of recruits who would not volunteer willingly but who nevertheless have skills and qualities beneficial to the military. (Just make sure to keep on disqualifying those unfit for service *cough* William Calley *cough*)
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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2016, 10:21:20 am »
Realistically, America doesn't need a draft to fight any conflicts it gets involved in, and any conflict that was big enough to need one would very likely end in a big radioactive cloud hanging over the planet before a draft could be organized let alone get people trained and sent to the front.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2016, 11:00:16 am »
The problem I have with the draft is that it appears, to me, to basically be a system of selective, situational conscription.  I do not appreciate the idea that some fuckhole on Capitol Hill can decide that I need to go to war, even if said war is just.  Its not just a "conscientious objector" thing, its also a "fuck you, I decide whether or not I go into the military, not you" thing.  Seriously, if a draft order came in today and some military toadies came to my door to press me into service, I'd laugh at them and slam the door in their faces.  I have better things to do with my life than being living target practice.
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Offline TheContrarian

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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2016, 01:06:40 pm »
Seriously, if a draft order came in today and some military toadies came to my door to press me into service, I'd laugh at them and slam the door in their faces.  I have better things to do with my life than being living target practice.

Better things like prison?


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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2016, 01:09:52 pm »
Seriously, if a draft order came in today and some military toadies came to my door to press me into service, I'd laugh at them and slam the door in their faces.  I have better things to do with my life than being living target practice.

Better things like prison?

Not Ravy, but I would say yes. I would rather be in prison than be in the military against my will.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2016, 02:12:56 pm »
Seriously, if a draft order came in today and some military toadies came to my door to press me into service, I'd laugh at them and slam the door in their faces.  I have better things to do with my life than being living target practice.

Better things like prison?

Not Ravy, but I would say yes. I would rather be in prison than be in the military against my will.

I'd rather literally be shot on the spot.  At least, that way, I die at home instead of some forsaken shithole, and can die with my dignity fully intact.  Fuck the army, fuck the marines, fuck the military, and fuck the police that'd dare enforce such savagery.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2016, 02:23:20 pm »
On one hand I can understand objecting to fighting a war that you do not approve of and in theory there are things that could make me not join up with the Finnish military...

On the other hand, I also believe it is my duty to fight for my country and have given the oath to do so, so it would have to be something very serious that would make me break that oath.

And seeing as I am even willing to do things like arm up and fight for Estonia and other EU countries if necessary I seem to be willing to go much further than the average person (particularly here.)

a) Finland is part of EU and therefore I strongly believe that we should be willing and ready to defend the other EU countries.

b) Even though some people complain that NATO would force us to "fight USA's wars and fight far from home rather than defending Finland" the same can be said of EU. But that's missing the point in many ways. How can we expect the other EU countries to send troops to help us if we aren't ready to help them? And the NATO bit in particular is so wrong because even EU has given us the same requirement to defend and fight for our allies (but strangely this is always ignored...) and it's not like NATO forces other countries to join offensives. (This is also ignored in that if an EU country decided to start a war and attack another country wouldn't we have the similar moral reasons to help them just as NATO allies would have? And 0 obligations to do so if we find the war to have been started for the wrong reasons.)
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2016, 04:00:51 pm »
I...can't say I feel the same way.  I can't help that I was born here and I find the idea that I owe my country my life and/or sanity simply for living here, something over which I have no real power, patently ludicrous.  I'll pay my taxes and contribute to the democratic process, but my loyalty to my people ends where my life and sanity begin.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Senate: American women must register for the draft
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2016, 04:15:08 pm »
Late to the party.

I have an unusual problem with this bill.
I am really all for equity, and I don't care what you have between your legs when it comes to fighting a war, but it seems like this could cause some previously unconsidered problems.

Normally when countries enacted the draft, they relied on the women who remained to essentially run the economy  and maintain the background of the war effort.
 
Yanking such a large population in its totality into becoming soldiers feels like it would critically hamstring both industry and the economy. Of course I am probably overthinking things or over representing the influence of that age group. I just think that effectively plucking those people out of society would cause some issues. There are a lot of people aged 18 to 25, its a heft portion of a nations population.

Except that by drafting women as well as men you don't suddenly draft twice the number of people. You draft the same number, they're just (roughly) evenly drawn from women and men. So where before (say) 200,000 men were drafted, now it'd be 100,000 men and 100,000 women, leaving the same number in the workforce as before, just with a different gender mix.
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