FSTDT Forums
Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Beezlebub on February 11, 2015, 07:46:00 pm
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/12/us/muslim-student-shootings-north-carolina.html?_r=0
......
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Let us not make any mistake. This is not an act of terrorism. This was a hate-crime. And I'm kinda sick of people on tumblr trying to label it terrorism.
Ironbite-it's not.
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He killed his three next door neighbors over a parking place dispute. And they were amazingly good kids. I swear I could strangle that guy right now. Jesus fuck!
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Let us not make any mistake. This is not an act of terrorism. This was a hate-crime. And I'm kinda sick of people on tumblr trying to label it terrorism.
Ironbite-it's not.
It could be, a lot of hate crimes are done in order to "send a message" to other groups of said minority or to provoke further attacks on said group.
Granted, we don't know what the killers motives were so he could have just as easily done it just because.
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I'm honestly tempted to shoot him myself.
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And to think, if this weren't the land of muh-gunz it likely never would have gotten any worse than people shouting at each other...
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And to think, if this weren't the land of muh-gunz it likely never would have gotten any worse than people shouting at each other...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpnXVxWJNkA
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And to think, if this weren't the land of muh-gunz it likely never would have gotten any worse than people shouting at each other...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpnXVxWJNkA
Perhaps, but he's right.
Me, I'm wondering if this'll even be covered much. It's a white Man, presumably Christian and conservative, killing Muslims. Doesn't fit the narrative.
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Every time I look at the story in the Washington Post, I just put my hands to my head.
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Me, I'm wondering if this'll even be covered much. It's a white Man, presumably Christian and conservative, killing Muslims. Doesn't fit the narrative.
Well, he is an atheist so the press has something to chew on.
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Oh, another shooting? I was wondering how much longer it'd be.
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Me, I'm wondering if this'll even be covered much. It's a white Man, presumably Christian and conservative, killing Muslims. Doesn't fit the narrative.
Well, he is an atheist so the press has something to chew on.
An atheist going after Muslims? Doesn't fit the narrative of liberals (because we all "know" atheist=liberal) being soft on terror. I'm hoping that based off of that, the press won't cover that angle too thoroughly. In any case, I first heard of this story from atheist sources like Aron Ra who were denouncing it thoroughly.
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However, an atheist DOES fit the narrative that not being Christian makes someone immoral.
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However, an atheist DOES fit the narrative that not being Christian makes someone immoral.
I've checked Ray Comfort and Ken Ham's Facebook pages, and I'm going to check WND. Nothing yet about the shooting, though I'll be sure to stay tuned for more. Ray is a master of Orwellian doublethink, so despite his talking about how atheists never question Islam, he may very well discover his inner Islamophile (which he would probably think is an insult).
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However, an atheist DOES fit the narrative that not being Christian makes someone immoral.
I've checked Ray Comfort and Ken Ham's Facebook pages, and I'm going to check WND. Nothing yet about the shooting, though I'll be sure to stay tuned for more. Ray is a master of Orwellian doublethink, so despite his talking about how atheists never question Islam, he may very well discover his inner Islamophile (which he would probably think is an insult).
He'll probably say something like how the attack was staged to make it look like atheists hate Muslims, but in reality the victims were willing sacrifices to further the leftist plot to do whatever the hell he claims they're trying to do.
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I like how just about everyone, especially the press, are kind of glossing over the fact that the police said this was over a parking dispute and currently have no reason to suspect it was a hate crime. Never let the facts get in the way of either good journalism or making your point I guess.
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Oh wow. WND is blaming the Southern Poverty Law Center for this. No, really. The shooter was a fan of them on Facebook, so that's the rationale. I specifically remember that Fox News has long criticized the SPLC for not attacking Islam enough (whether that is valid or not I do not know), and I am pretty sure that they've yet to denounce Islam the religion as a problem that it is. But whatever, gotta score cheap shots.
The good news is that the comments on WND aren't bashing atheists that much. Like I said, atheists attacking Muslims doesn't fit the narrative they've been fed.
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I like how just about everyone, especially the press, are kind of glossing over the fact that the police said this was over a parking dispute and currently have no reason to suspect it was a hate crime. Never let the facts get in the way of either good journalism or making your point I guess.
We do have one reason to suspect it was a hate crime, namely that the victims were Muslim and people who hate Muslims are not exactly rare. The parking dispute doesn't change that; since people don't usually kill each other over parking, it's reasonable think there could be other factors involved. Like religious hatred.
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/north-carolina-triple-slaying-arouses-fear-of-hate-crimes-against-muslims/ar-AA9hcBi?ocid=U147DHP (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/north-carolina-triple-slaying-arouses-fear-of-hate-crimes-against-muslims/ar-AA9hcBi?ocid=U147DHP)
So, apparently he was inside their condo apartment and shot all three in the head. They probably let him in, hoping to resolve the parking place dispute. All the other neighbors disliked and feared him - he was a bully. His FB profile shows that he was strongly anti-theist, talking points being that religious beliefs lead to killings. Yeah, and so does being a monstrous asshole.
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...since people don't usually kill each other over parking...
Seriously? People are murdered and assaulted for incredibly stupid and petty reasons all the damn time, including things as petty as parking. People have been hospitalised and even murdered for shit as petty as overtaking people and disputes with neighbours about trees and fences.
Plus, your reasoning is essentially an argument from incredulity, and a rather naive incredulity if I may say so, and is still jumping to a conclusion with no evidence. The police said there is no reason to suspect it was motivated by religion - call me mad but I think I'll go with the people who are actually investigating the incident over the sensationlaising press and random people on the internet with an axe to grind. Until the investigations proves otherwise, I don't see there's anything else to say on the matter in this regard.
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Ahh yes the police.
Ironbite-hehehehehehHAHAHAHAHAHZHZHZFKDX;ZXFJLC9XUCXUXFU0DSJXF
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...I Was going to comment on the absurdity of trusting the word of the police, but Ironbite did it better already.
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...since people don't usually kill each other over parking...
Seriously? People are murdered and assaulted for incredibly stupid and petty reasons all the damn time, including things as petty as parking. People have been hospitalised and even murdered for shit as petty as overtaking people and disputes with neighbours about trees and fences.
Fair point, allow me to reword: most parking disputes don't result in murder (don't have a source right now, but I can try to look for one if you are sceptical). Yes, some do, and not always because of religious hatred. Obviously there could be any number of other factors.
Plus, your reasoning is essentially an argument from incredulity, and a rather naive incredulity if I may say so,
I didn't say "people couldn't possibly kill each other if it wasn't for religious hatred". I said religious hatred was a possible reason a parking dispute ended in murder. Do you disagree?
and is still jumping to a conclusion with no evidence.
What conclusion? Hate crime is a hypothesis. You said there was no reason to consider it. I said there was one.
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One of the lawyers said they were "in the wrong place at the wrong time"
...it was their home.
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One of the lawyers said they were "in the wrong place at the wrong time"
...it was their home.
They were living in post 9/11 America.
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/north-carolina-triple-slaying-arouses-fear-of-hate-crimes-against-muslims/ar-AA9hcBi?ocid=U147DHP (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/north-carolina-triple-slaying-arouses-fear-of-hate-crimes-against-muslims/ar-AA9hcBi?ocid=U147DHP)
So, apparently he was inside their condo apartment and shot all three in the head. They probably let him in, hoping to resolve the parking place dispute. All the other neighbors disliked and feared him - he was a bully. His FB profile shows that he was strongly anti-theist, talking points being that religious beliefs lead to killings. Yeah, and so does being a monstrous asshole.
Not to mention a hypocrite. Doesn't like religion because of violence and killings...proceeds to kill three people.
This is the first Anti-Theist hate crime I've ever seen. Sure, there were some hardcore Stalinist/Maoist societies that preached atheism and persecuted certain religious folks but as far as "Lone Hate Crime By Unhinged Schmoe" is concerned, this is new to me!
If it was an Anti-Muslim/Theist hate crime, then the whole parking dispute was the excuse this big ugly goober needed.
You know how they say "Never Judge A Book By It's Cover"?......
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f226/SpukiKitty/Yucky%20Things%20and%20People/fugly_zps9be1a437.png) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/SpukiKitty/media/Yucky%20Things%20and%20People/fugly_zps9be1a437.png.html)
.....Well, the killer's the exception. This guy's the human equivalent of the "Book of the Dead" from the Evil Dead movies! EGADS! Talk about someone who was hit with an ugly stick!
THREE YOUNG, ATTRACTIVE, NICE, INTELLIGENT MUSLIM KIDS SENT TO ALLAH VIA BULLETS BY A HIDEOUS, STUPID, INBRED FAT LUMP WITH NO CHIN! FILMED AT ELEVEN!!! Methinks he was jealous.
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THREE YOUNG, ATTRACTIVE, NICE, INTELLIGENT MUSLIM KIDS SENT TO ALLAH VIA BULLETS BY A HIDEOUS, STUPID, INBRED FAT LUMP WITH NO CHIN! FILMED AT ELEVEN!!! Methinks he was jealous.
You think you could stop making fun of people for factors entirely out of their control? The fact that he murdered three people is enough for me to be unsympathetic; I don't need to compare them in a beauty contest.
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/north-carolina-triple-slaying-arouses-fear-of-hate-crimes-against-muslims/ar-AA9hcBi?ocid=U147DHP (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/north-carolina-triple-slaying-arouses-fear-of-hate-crimes-against-muslims/ar-AA9hcBi?ocid=U147DHP)
So, apparently he was inside their condo apartment and shot all three in the head. They probably let him in, hoping to resolve the parking place dispute. All the other neighbors disliked and feared him - he was a bully. His FB profile shows that he was strongly anti-theist, talking points being that religious beliefs lead to killings. Yeah, and so does being a monstrous asshole.
Not to mention a hypocrite. Doesn't like religion because of violence and killings...proceeds to kill three people.
This is the first Anti-Theist hate crime I've ever seen. Sure, there were some hardcore Stalinist/Maoist societies that preached atheism and persecuted certain religious folks but as far as "Lone Hate Crime By Unhinged Schmoe" is concerned, this is new to me!
If it was an Anti-Muslim/Theist hate crime, then the whole parking dispute was the excuse this big ugly goober needed.
You know how they say "Never Judge A Book By It's Cover"?......
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f226/SpukiKitty/Yucky%20Things%20and%20People/fugly_zps9be1a437.png) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/SpukiKitty/media/Yucky%20Things%20and%20People/fugly_zps9be1a437.png.html)
.....Well, the killer's the exception. This guy's the human equivalent of the "Book of the Dead" from the Evil Dead movies! EGADS! Talk about someone who was hit with an ugly stick!
THREE YOUNG, ATTRACTIVE, NICE, INTELLIGENT MUSLIM KIDS SENT TO ALLAH VIA BULLETS BY A HIDEOUS, STUPID, INBRED FAT LUMP WITH NO CHIN! FILMED AT ELEVEN!!! Methinks he was jealous.
Yes, because murderers are unattractive. Like Ted Bundy.
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Commenting on ugly is politically incorrect. But it's great fun.
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Commenting on ugly is politically incorrect. But it's great fun.
Also makes being on a jury easier. Nope, he's ugly. Get 'em outta here. Whoa, she's hot. Yeah, she needs needs to be out walking around.
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Commenting on ugly is politically incorrect. But it's great fun.
Also makes being on a jury easier. Nope, he's ugly. Get 'em outta here. Whoa, she's hot. Yeah, she needs needs to be out walking around.
You joke, but attractive people really do tend to get lighter sentences. The exception being cases of fraud: there, attractive people actually tend to get punished worse.
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/north-carolina-triple-slaying-arouses-fear-of-hate-crimes-against-muslims/ar-AA9hcBi?ocid=U147DHP (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/north-carolina-triple-slaying-arouses-fear-of-hate-crimes-against-muslims/ar-AA9hcBi?ocid=U147DHP)
So, apparently he was inside their condo apartment and shot all three in the head. They probably let him in, hoping to resolve the parking place dispute. All the other neighbors disliked and feared him - he was a bully. His FB profile shows that he was strongly anti-theist, talking points being that religious beliefs lead to killings. Yeah, and so does being a monstrous asshole.
Not to mention a hypocrite. Doesn't like religion because of violence and killings...proceeds to kill three people.
This is the first Anti-Theist hate crime I've ever seen. Sure, there were some hardcore Stalinist/Maoist societies that preached atheism and persecuted certain religious folks but as far as "Lone Hate Crime By Unhinged Schmoe" is concerned, this is new to me!
If it was an Anti-Muslim/Theist hate crime, then the whole parking dispute was the excuse this big ugly goober needed.
You know how they say "Never Judge A Book By It's Cover"?......
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f226/SpukiKitty/Yucky%20Things%20and%20People/fugly_zps9be1a437.png) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/SpukiKitty/media/Yucky%20Things%20and%20People/fugly_zps9be1a437.png.html)
.....Well, the killer's the exception. This guy's the human equivalent of the "Book of the Dead" from the Evil Dead movies! EGADS! Talk about someone who was hit with an ugly stick!
THREE YOUNG, ATTRACTIVE, NICE, INTELLIGENT MUSLIM KIDS SENT TO ALLAH VIA BULLETS BY A HIDEOUS, STUPID, INBRED FAT LUMP WITH NO CHIN! FILMED AT ELEVEN!!! Methinks he was jealous.
Yes, because murderers are unattractive. Like Ted Bundy.
Okay, sorry about that. I admit that was uncalled for. :P
....but he's still a loser!
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I think it may be wrong to label this an "anti-theist hate crime," especially in the light that he probably did not know for certain their religious beliefs. I would venture to guess racial stereotyping and prejudices played a role in this (i.e. If George Zimmerman were an atheist, he'd still have followed and killed Trayvon due to racial stereotyping). I would also venture to guess American gun culture played a role in this (he was big on the "2nd Amendment" and the NRA's rugged-American "here's a gun, solve your problems" mentality). But, at the moment all we have is an anti-theist that committed a crime, and not necessarily because he was an anti-theist.
I belabor the point, but I am an anti-theist who believes all religions are dangerous, manipulative, power-hungry, and stupid. So, I'm probably a tad bias. But, I still see other parts of the kyriarchy playing into this more so than anti-theism.
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When I read Hicks' ex-wife's statement that he watched the movie "Falling Down" obsessively, actually laughing while Michael Douglas' character (a bitter middle aged white dude) went on a shooting rampage against almost entirely non-white people who were either petty criminals or who just dissed him...things kinda clicked. Hicks was a hated and feared man according to all the neighbors interviewed, obsessed about his assigned parking space. The girls did wear traditional headscarves/hijab, but yeah, I think his main problem is that he had "kill people" on his bucket list.
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When I read Hicks' ex-wife's statement that he watched the movie "Falling Down" obsessively, actually laughing while Michael Douglas' character (a bitter middle aged white dude) went on a shooting rampage against almost entirely non-white people who were either petty criminals or who just dissed him...things kinda clicked. Hicks was a hated and feared man according to all the neighbors interviewed, obsessed about his assigned parking space. The girls did wear traditional headscarves/hijab, but yeah, I think his main problem is that he had "kill people" on his bucket list.
Yeah, some people are just violent shitheads. There may or may not have been racist or anti-religious motives involved, but we know for a fact that the man's a horrible person. What a loathsome excuse for a human being.
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When I read Hicks' ex-wife's statement that he watched the movie "Falling Down" obsessively, actually laughing while Michael Douglas' character (a bitter middle aged white dude) went on a shooting rampage against almost entirely non-white people who were either petty criminals or who just dissed him...things kinda clicked. Hicks was a hated and feared man according to all the neighbors interviewed, obsessed about his assigned parking space. The girls did wear traditional headscarves/hijab, but yeah, I think his main problem is that he had "kill people" on his bucket list.
Yeah, some people are just violent shitheads. There may or may not have been racist or anti-religious motives involved, but we know for a fact that the man's a horrible person. What a loathsome excuse for a human being.
Wow! I agree, a complete freak....and not in a good way!
Good thing that lady's his EX-wife. Good for her!
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I belabor the point, but I am an anti-theist who believes all religions are dangerous, manipulative, power-hungry, and stupid. So, I'm probably a tad bias (sic). But, I still see other parts of the kyriarchy playing into this more so than anti-theism.
Modern political religions may reject Christianity, but they cannot do without demonology. The Jacobins, the Bolsheviks and the Nazis all believed in vast conspiracies against them, as do radical Islamists today. It is never the flaws of human nature that stand in the way of Utopia. It is the workings of evil forces.
Get out! You actually believe think evil has a root cause?! So do I, it's called antropocentric morality that can't accept that we're animals that talk and have loose moral compasses.
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I belabor the point, but I am an anti-theist who believes all religions are dangerous, manipulative, power-hungry, and stupid. So, I'm probably a tad bias (sic). But, I still see other parts of the kyriarchy playing into this more so than anti-theism.
Modern political religions may reject Christianity, but they cannot do without demonology. The Jacobins, the Bolsheviks and the Nazis all believed in vast conspiracies against them, as do radical Islamists today. It is never the flaws of human nature that stand in the way of Utopia. It is the workings of evil forces.
Get out! You actually believe think evil has a root cause?! So do I, it's called antropocentric morality that can't accept that we're animals that talk and have loose moral compasses.
Madman, if your reading comprehension was at a 5th grade level, then you would understand that I am saying that it is hasty to label this an "anti-theist hate crime," when there are, inter alia, more valid and more plausible explanations. Otherwise, we could call the Columbine massacres an anti-theist hate crime because Eric Harris wore a shirt saying "survival of the fittest." Just because a person commits an action and that person has a characteristic does not mean that the characteristic caused the action. Can I be more clear with you?
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I belabor the point, but I am an anti-theist who believes all religions are dangerous, manipulative, power-hungry, and stupid. So, I'm probably a tad bias (sic). But, I still see other parts of the kyriarchy playing into this more so than anti-theism.
Modern political religions may reject Christianity, but they cannot do without demonology. The Jacobins, the Bolsheviks and the Nazis all believed in vast conspiracies against them, as do radical Islamists today. It is never the flaws of human nature that stand in the way of Utopia. It is the workings of evil forces.
Get out! You actually believe think evil has a root cause?! So do I, it's called antropocentric morality that can't accept that we're animals that talk and have loose moral compasses.
Madman, if your reading comprehension was at a 5th grade level, then you would understand that I am saying that it is hasty to label this an "anti-theist hate crime," when there are, inter alia, more valid and more plausible explanations. Otherwise, we could call the Columbine massacres an anti-theist hate crime because Eric Harris wore a shirt saying "survival of the fittest." Just because a person commits an action and that person has a characteristic does not mean that the characteristic caused the action. Can I be more clear with you?
So, you're saying that I've jumped to conclusions based on circumstantial evidence regarding the individual in question without attempting to gather direct evidence to support my theories first.
Alright, fair enough.
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When I read Hicks' ex-wife's statement that he watched the movie "Falling Down" obsessively, actually laughing while Michael Douglas' character (a bitter middle aged white dude) went on a shooting rampage against almost entirely non-white people who were either petty criminals or who just dissed him...things kinda clicked. Hicks was a hated and feared man according to all the neighbors interviewed, obsessed about his assigned parking space. The girls did wear traditional headscarves/hijab, but yeah, I think his main problem is that he had "kill people" on his bucket list.
Yeah, some people are just violent shitheads. There may or may not have been racist or anti-religious motives involved, but we know for a fact that the man's a horrible person. What a loathsome excuse for a human being.
Wow! I agree, a complete freak....and not in a good way!
Good thing that lady's his EX-wife. Good for her!
Wouldn't say good for her after what she said when CNN interviewed her.
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When I read Hicks' ex-wife's statement that he watched the movie "Falling Down" obsessively, actually laughing while Michael Douglas' character (a bitter middle aged white dude) went on a shooting rampage against almost entirely non-white people who were either petty criminals or who just dissed him...things kinda clicked. Hicks was a hated and feared man according to all the neighbors interviewed, obsessed about his assigned parking space. The girls did wear traditional headscarves/hijab, but yeah, I think his main problem is that he had "kill people" on his bucket list.
Yeah, some people are just violent shitheads. There may or may not have been racist or anti-religious motives involved, but we know for a fact that the man's a horrible person. What a loathsome excuse for a human being.
Wow! I agree, a complete freak....and not in a good way!
Good thing that lady's his EX-wife. Good for her!
Wouldn't say good for her after what she said when CNN interviewed her.
What did she say? Also, I was commending her for dumping his brutish tail. What horrible stuff did she say next?
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Wait was it her or some other family member that said he rescued puppies or something like that. Can't remember.
Ironbite-either way this man is a monster.
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Wait was it her or some other family member that said he rescued puppies or something like that. Can't remember.
Ironbite-either way this man is a monster.
Ted Bundy once worked for a suicide hotline. Jim Jones fought segregation. Al Capone ran soup kitchens. But that doesn't make up for the horrible things they did.
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What did she say?