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Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: WarGoatHK417 on May 16, 2013, 10:06:34 pm

Title: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: WarGoatHK417 on May 16, 2013, 10:06:34 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFTX-j5h2oA

Basically, I left a random comment  on this video, and actually got a response back!
(click to show/hide)

Being an Aspie, I figured throwing in those references from my New Testament class would make it sound less like trolling.  I didn't know what to expect, just that it was going to pure fundie idiocy.  boggymark1 didn't disappoint.
(click to show/hide)

Comedy gold.  Bingo.
I figure the replies to my comments will make great material to post to FSTDT, I'm just not sure what exactly to post for maximum impact.
Maybe it's amusing to me because this is the first time I've personally argued with people that stupid-- with normal people, you troll by being batshit insane, not by asking educated questions.  With these people, being batshit insane earns you brofists.  I've heard about fundies ignoring logic, but experiencing it firsthand is different from reading what someone else posted.  It's like arguing with someone brainwashed by the Khmer Rogue; you just get robotic answers thrown back at you.  The question is ignored.  Evidence is ignored.  I'll post the comments up here if anyone wants.  Otherwise, I recommend just going to the comments of the video.

Again, the stuff is probably old hat to most of you.  Hardcore young-earth Creationism, I'm familiar with.  But the insistence that even the most conservative Christians, if they read NIV, are 'scripture-twisting fag-enablers going to hell', is new to me.  But I'd love to get some feedback on the conversations I had with Dumb and Dumber, a.k.a. boggymark1 and jjpetkusiii.

On the subject of music to troll 'em with, I was thinking some classic death metal.  Deicide, "Fuck your god" would be classic, but it's not that great.
The Christian death metal classic "Scrolls of the Megilloth" may be a good choice for the delicious irony.

Or, from one of my favorite black metal bands, THIS:
(click to show/hide)

Any other metal suggestions?
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: Barbarella on May 16, 2013, 11:26:59 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFTX-j5h2oA

Basically, I left a random comment  on this video, and actually got a response back!
(click to show/hide)

Being an Aspie, I figured throwing in those references from my New Testament class would make it sound less like trolling.  I didn't know what to expect, just that it was going to pure fundie idiocy.  boggymark1 didn't disappoint.
(click to show/hide)

Comedy gold.  Bingo.
I figure the replies to my comments will make great material to post to FSTDT, I'm just not sure what exactly to post for maximum impact.
Maybe it's amusing to me because this is the first time I've personally argued with people that stupid-- with normal people, you troll by being batshit insane, not by asking educated questions.  With these people, being batshit insane earns you brofists.  I've heard about fundies ignoring logic, but experiencing it firsthand is different from reading what someone else posted.  It's like arguing with someone brainwashed by the Khmer Rogue; you just get robotic answers thrown back at you.  The question is ignored.  Evidence is ignored.  I'll post the comments up here if anyone wants.  Otherwise, I recommend just going to the comments of the video.

Again, the stuff is probably old hat to most of you.  Hardcore young-earth Creationism, I'm familiar with.  But the insistence that even the most conservative Christians, if they read NIV, are 'scripture-twisting fag-enablers going to hell', is new to me.  But I'd love to get some feedback on the conversations I had with Dumb and Dumber, a.k.a. boggymark1 and jjpetkusiii.

On the subject of music to troll 'em with, I was thinking some classic death metal.  Deicide, "Fuck your god" would be classic, but it's not that great.
The Christian death metal classic "Scrolls of the Megilloth" may be a good choice for the delicious irony.

Or, from one of my favorite black metal bands, THIS:
(click to show/hide)

Any other metal suggestions?

Welcome to FSTDTs Forum! How are ya? I'm SpukiKitty. Glad to meet you.

Love your post. I have yet to read the whole thread on YouTube but I'm sure it'll be a treat. Those fundies are nuts, aren't they? I agree about your "Khmer Rouge" comment. They all become like talking-point babbling fleshy automatons, after a while. Pitiful people.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: WarGoatHK417 on May 17, 2013, 12:00:55 am
Nice. 
Say, Spukikitty, the replies were pretty recent.  Want to join in trolling these folks on YouTube?  The replies were pretty recent, so apparently the game's still afoot.  Getting other people involved would be epic.

My sister read these comments, and she thinks jr and boggymark1 are sock puppets of a single person who is deliberately trolling.  If this weren't a Kent Hovind video I would agree with her.  But we're talking about the seedy underbelly where Rushdoony, Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches, and Kinism dwell.  It's funny how one group of fundamentalists blames Hitler, the African slave trade, British imperialism, etc. on Darwin, who supposedly created the idea of a "master race."  The curse of Ham, creationist Confederate chaplains like Dabney, and the Christian Identity movement (David Duke, Aryan Nations, etc.) are carefully omitted-- not all intentionally, since most people are not well-read on these topics, but it's a toxic combination with the human tendency to focus on information that confirms pre-existing beliefs and block out anything else.

And then, of course, on the other side-- or, in the case of an Independent Fundamental Baptist, I'm guessing it may be the same people, what with Rushdoony and Dominionism being popular among the incomprehensibly shitfuck fundies, but I don't know for sure--we have...THIS:
(click to show/hide)
Stuff Fundies Like FTW!
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: Barbarella on May 17, 2013, 12:53:07 am
Nice. 
Say, Spukikitty, the replies were pretty recent.  Want to join in trolling these folks on YouTube?  The replies were pretty recent, so apparently the game's still afoot.  Getting other people involved would be epic.

My sister read these comments, and she thinks jr and boggymark1 are sock puppets of a single person who is deliberately trolling.  If this weren't a Kent Hovind video I would agree with her.  But we're talking about the seedy underbelly where Rushdoony, Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches, and Kinism dwell.  It's funny how one group of fundamentalists blames Hitler, the African slave trade, British imperialism, etc. on Darwin, who supposedly created the idea of a "master race."  The curse of Ham, creationist Confederate chaplains like Dabney, and the Christian Identity movement (David Duke, Aryan Nations, etc.) are carefully omitted-- not all intentionally, since most people are not well-read on these topics, but it's a toxic combination with the human tendency to focus on information that confirms pre-existing beliefs and block out anything else.

And then, of course, on the other side-- or, in the case of an Independent Fundamental Baptist, I'm guessing it may be the same people, what with Rushdoony and Dominionism being popular among the incomprehensibly shitfuck fundies, but I don't know for sure--we have...THIS:
(click to show/hide)
Stuff Fundies Like FTW!
(click to show/hide)

I don't know if I'd want to troll. However, I truly thank you from the bottom of my IndoPagan/Liberal/"Heretic" heart for the links.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: WarGoatHK417 on May 17, 2013, 12:56:29 am
Apparently, I'm not the first person to piss people off by being "a useless troll," a.k.a. giving a reasonable challenge to these folks. 
But bart hill, if he's not purely trolling, seems like either a Kinist or Christian Identist.  Slightly different outlook than Team Hovind.  But note that he/it1 has less conflict with them than with JimDeferio and Tom Winchester (who apparently did the same kind of thing I did, without as much "for tel lulz" motivation.  "For teh lulz" encompassing the idea that, despite the existence of Chris-Chan and Sailormoonred1, and the fact that I'm currently an unemployed college student who lives with his parents and faps to furry porn2, at least us Aspies are far from the most idiotic people on the internet.


To extend my analogy further, what JimDeferio3 and I4 were doing is like Pol Pot's secret police having a mild debate with a lone Gestapo agent.  Then they scream in Cambodian when George Orwell5 and Murray Rothbard6 walk into the room.

Footnotes:
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Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: Barbarella on May 17, 2013, 12:58:09 am
Apparently, I'm not the first person to piss people off by being "a useless troll," a.k.a. giving a reasonable challenge to these folks. 
But bart1, if he's not purely trolling, seems like either a Kinist or Christian Identist.  Slightly different outlook than Team Hovind.  But note that he/it* has less conflict with them than

To extend my analogy further, it's like Pol Pot's secret police having a mild debate with a lone Gestapo agent.  Then they scream in Cambodian when George Orwell and Murray Rothbard walk into the room.

*Rule 30: THERE ARE NO FEMALES ON THE INTERNET.  Present company excepted, of course, milady SpukiKitty.

Yep. They're a weird bunch & I'm aware of the differing variations in ChristoZealot fundiness.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: WarGoatHK417 on May 17, 2013, 01:03:51 am
Also note that by "troll", I mean ask reasonable questions.  When people are disconnected from reality, it is VERY easy to get a reaction from them without being a deliberate jerkass.  It'll be fun.  And I think boggymark1 seems to be about done talking to me.  But if a new person comes in...
Obviously, he will provide robotic repetition. 
(click to show/hide)
But, the more stupidity we can get him to spew, the higher the probability of getting an extremely lol-worthy comment.

Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: Barbarella on May 17, 2013, 01:49:51 am
Also note that by "troll", I mean ask reasonable questions.  When people are disconnected from reality, it is VERY easy to get a reaction from them without being a deliberate jerkass.  It'll be fun.  And I think boggymark1 seems to be about done talking to me.  But if a new person comes in...
Obviously, he will provide robotic repetition. 
(click to show/hide)
But, the more stupidity we can get him to spew, the higher the probability of getting an extremely lol-worthy comment.

Well, it's really late at night where I am & I'm sorry but I'm not up to it at the moment. I hope I haven't made you mad. Sorry about that. That said. I welcome you to the board. I'm glad to meet you. Thanks for the suggested websites. I joined the one on Tumblr.

I really have to sleep, now. I can't keep my eyes open. Glad we could say hello.

Well, I'll be signing-off, now. Peace, Love & Pizza-Rolls, my friend.

I also have a Tumblr & DeviantART account.

TUMBLR: http://barbarella75.tumblr.com/

DEVIANTART: http://barbarellasteele1975.deviantart.com/

And, of course, I'm SpukiKitty, here.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: WarGoatHK417 on May 17, 2013, 02:03:07 am
Quote
Well, it's really late at night where I am & I'm sorry but I'm not up to it at the moment. I hope I haven't made you mad. Sorry about that. That said. I welcome you to the board. I'm glad to meet you. Thanks for the suggested websites. I joined the one on Tumblr.

I really have to sleep, now. I can't keep my eyes open. Glad we could say hello.

Well, I'll be signing-off, now. Peace, Love & Pizza-Rolls, my friend.

I also have a Tumblr & DeviantART account.

TUMBLR: http://barbarella75.tumblr.com/

DEVIANTART: http://barbarellasteele1975.deviantart.com/

And, of course, I'm SpukiKitty, here.
Thanks, it's not critical.  It's 0100 where I am, great time for playing Black Ops 2.  Expecting other people to join in at this point was as ambitious as expecting Rabbit of Caerbannog to reply to this post.
Hopefully other people will show up on this thread soon.  It'll be interesting to see what Dakota Bob has to say, if he isn't inundated with other messages.
http://wargoathk417.deviantart.com
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on May 17, 2013, 08:20:32 am
Fucking metal was fucking brilliant! MOAR.  8)

Oh, was this thread about Hovind?
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: Dakota Bob on May 17, 2013, 10:39:49 am
Not sure why you chose to PM me, but if we're talking 'bout metal, here's some stuff I've been listening to recently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9NESceABdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYZktLCBxjk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cixczzF0A10
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: Itachirumon on May 17, 2013, 12:00:13 pm
Nice. 
Say, Spukikitty, the replies were pretty recent.  Want to join in trolling these folks on YouTube?  The replies were pretty recent, so apparently the game's still afoot.  Getting other people involved would be epic.

My sister read these comments, and she thinks jr and boggymark1 are sock puppets of a single person who is deliberately trolling.  If this weren't a Kent Hovind video I would agree with her.  But we're talking about the seedy underbelly where Rushdoony, Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches, and Kinism dwell.  It's funny how one group of fundamentalists blames Hitler, the African slave trade, British imperialism, etc. on Darwin, who supposedly created the idea of a "master race."  The curse of Ham, creationist Confederate chaplains like Dabney, and the Christian Identity movement (David Duke, Aryan Nations, etc.) are carefully omitted-- not all intentionally, since most people are not well-read on these topics, but it's a toxic combination with the human tendency to focus on information that confirms pre-existing beliefs and block out anything else.

And then, of course, on the other side-- or, in the case of an Independent Fundamental Baptist, I'm guessing it may be the same people, what with Rushdoony and Dominionism being popular among the incomprehensibly shitfuck fundies, but I don't know for sure--we have...THIS:
(click to show/hide)
Stuff Fundies Like FTW!
(click to show/hide)

Our operation got facetime on other websites? Awesomeness. Our little guy's been busy.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: the_ignored on May 17, 2013, 05:58:31 pm

(click to show/hide)
Holy shit.  This is something that could actually make the news.  I'm impressed by the people here.

Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: WarGoatHK417 on May 17, 2013, 09:35:57 pm
Fucking metal was fucking brilliant! MOAR.  8)

Oh, was this thread about Hovind?
Oh, metal is very relevant!  What would you recommend?

We can't let Comrade Hovind and the Party members dominate everything, now can we?  I'm thinking of stringing boggymark1 and his fellow Bolsheviks* along for a bit, stifling my urge to rub my godless libertarian ass in their faces.  Then, at the end, drop the bomb and troll.  I think boggy's done talking to me, though, but if other people want to leave a comment on the video, we can keep the questioning, a.k.a "being a useless troll," going for a bit.  I don't feel complete yet; I haven't gotten him to say something profoundly stupid by FSTDT standards.  Not that his comments aren't already hardcore fundie shit-- if you read the comments, every time someone brings up a verse, boggymark1 replies by quoting a completely different verse, and the "goodness" of the verse he's quoting is supposed to prove he's right.  Classic fundie tactic, but it need context to be funny.  The Hitler comment came close but it's probably not the most aggravating thought in his brain.  I'm wondering if we can get him to say something that's batshit stupid without a lot of context.  Maybe get him to talk about his views on women, dinosaurs, and the "New World Order."  Notice that he didn't actually answer my question about whether he agrees with Hovind; when such a classic fundie symptom like that is exhibited, the most logical guess would be a definite yes.  I just haven't bothered asking.

All right then: MOAR songs I was thinking of!  I was too lazy to post the links last time, but I didn't feel like leaving a list of song titles to look up on YouTube would be very effective.
Love this song
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Some classic thrash.  First two chosen purely for teh headbangz, third song chosen for troll factor, fourth and fifth chosen for relevance.
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

There's more, but this should be plenty for now.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: WarGoatHK417 on May 17, 2013, 09:54:06 pm
Not sure why you chose to PM me, but if we're talking 'bout metal, here's some stuff I've been listening to recently.
(click to show/hide)

 Boring story of why I chose to PM you:
(click to show/hide)
So, any recommendations for the KJV cultists?
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: Meshakhad on May 17, 2013, 10:22:55 pm
I find the whole thing ridiculous, as I hold that all translations are imperfect, and therefore the only inerrant version of the Bible is the original Hebrew.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: doomcup on May 18, 2013, 02:02:46 am
I have my own problems with the NIV, but I think it's safe to say that they're not the ones Mr. Hovind has. Also I'm laughing pretty hard at his rationale for old manuscripts not being trustworthy, talking about them not being used, since using manuscripts is apparently like using bars of soap.

Misquoting Jesus was particularly enlightening about  the problems a biblical inerrancy proponent would have a hard time overcoming.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: Thejebusfire on May 18, 2013, 02:33:52 am
Quote
The infamous Holocaust that resulted from their admiration of Darwin's hypothesis of "natural selection" brought death to millions of innocent men, women, and children.

That akward moment where Hitler banned evolution.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: the_ignored on May 18, 2013, 04:07:24 am
So, any recommendations for the KJV cultists?
Yes, but if I say it on a public forum, homeland security will get called onto my ass.

Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: the_ignored on May 18, 2013, 05:17:13 am
Very late edit (as Oct 1, 2014!):
PZ Myers has a talk (http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/10/01/hitler-creationist/) about this as well, including a claim that Hitler did use the word "evolutionary".
end of edit


Last edit, I hope:
Two  more links that I find informative:
--http://etb-darwin.blogspot.ca/2012/04/response-to-darwinism-and-nazi-race.html <-- a response to the AiG article

--http://coelsblog.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/nazi-racial-ideology-was-religious-creationist-and-opposed-to-darwinism/
end of edit

To those who claim that there was a link between Darwin and Hitler, this is basically reprinted from a post (http://web.archive.org/web/20110107063023/http://raycomfortfood.blogspot.com/2008/03/expelled-review.html?showComment=1206808080000#c5453603529948094613) that I put on Ray Comfort's blog once, with minor corrections about Karl Leuger and added info about Richard Weikart.


How many times did Hitler say that he admired Darwin? How many times did Hitler mention Darwain in his writings? I've read Mein Kampf, and I can tell you. None.

This is maybe an indicator of how much Hitler liked Darwin
Quote
In 1935, Die Bücherei, the official Nazi journal for lending libraries listed books to reject:

Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel). (Die Bücherei 1935, 279)

They made an undated "Blacklist for Public Libraries and Commercial Lending Libraries" includes the following on a list of literature which "absolutely must be removed":
c) All writings that ridicule, belittle or besmirch the Christian religion and its institution, faith in God, or other things that are holy to the healthy sentiments of the Volk. (Blacklist n.d.)

from the Index to Creationist Claims (http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA006_1.html) is where I first found this. Check out his source.


Guess who Hitler did say he admired in his book? Martin Luther. The guy who wrote On the Jews and Their Lies... He's a creationist hero (http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v6/n3/luther), not a "darwinist".

Here's another guy who admired your Martin Luther...
Julius Streicher (one of Hitler's top henchmen and publisher of the anti-Semitic Der Sturmer) was asked during the Nuremberg trials if there were any other publications in Germany which treated the Jewish question in an anti-Semitic way., Streicher said:
Quote
Dr. Martin Luther would very probably sit in my place in the defendants' dock today, if this book had been taken into consideration by the Prosecution. In the book 'The Jews and Their Lies,' Dr. Martin Luther writes that the Jews are a serpent's brood and one should burn down their synagogues and destroy them...

Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 14 November 1945-- 1 October 1946, Vol. 12, p.318


In Mein Kampf, Hitler said that it was some christian-styled politico, Karl Leuger who first inculated anti-Jewish hatred in him.
(see Hitler, Mein Kampf: Volume 1, Chapter 2.)

Check it:
Quote
I was not in agreement with the sharp anti-Semitic tone, but from time to time I read arguments which gave me some food for thought. At all events, these occasions slowly made me acquainted with the man and the movement, which in those days guided Vienna's destinies: Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party ... The man and the movement seemed 'reactionary' in my eyes. My common sense of justice, however, forced me to change this judgment in proportion as I had occasion to become acquainted with the man and his work; and slowly my fair judgment turned to unconcealed admiration. Today, more than ever, I regard this man as the greatest German mayor of all times ... How many of my basic principles were upset by this change in my attitude toward the Christian Social movement! My views with regard to anti-Semitism thus succumbed to the passage of time, and this was my greatest transformation of all.

More Hitler fun as he caters to his target audience in his book. Guess who it is, "darwinists" or someone else?
Quote
Certainly we don't have to discuss these matters with the Jews, the most modern inventors of this cultural perfume. Their whole existence is an embodied protest against the aesthetics of the Lord's image.
Mein Kampf Volume 1, Chapter 6.

Quote
What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe.
Mein Kampf Volume 1, Chapter 9.

You can say he didn't believe that himself, that he wasn't a true "Christian", but so what? Who do you think he was catering to there?

How much stuff from Mein Kampf did Stein show that had Hitler pandering to "darwinists" as much?

Hitler:
Quote
For us, this is not a problem you can turn a blind eye to-one to be solved by small concessions. For us, it is a problem of whether our nation can ever recover its health, whether the Jewish spirit can ever really be eradicated. Don't be misled into thinking you can fight a disease without killing the carrier, without destroying the bacillus. Don't think you can fight racial tuberculosis without taking care to rid the nation of the carrier of that racial tuberculosis. This Jewish contamination will not subside, this poisoning of the nation will not end, until the carrier himself, the Jew, has been banished from our midst. Speech delivered by Hitler in Salzburg, 7 or 8 August 1920. (NSDAP meeting)

Did creationists go after the guy who came up with the germ theory of disease?
Read Mein Kampf. There's more of that.

For similar information, check out GENOCIDE AS IMMUNOLOGY:  The Psychosomatic Source of Culture by Richard Koenigsberg



For some of Darwin's views about "races", check out his Descent of Man from 1871

Quote
But the most weighty of all the arguments against treating the races of man as distinct species, is that they graduate into each other, independently in many cases, as far as we can judge, of their having intercrossed. Man has been studied more carefully than any other animal, and yet there is the greatest possible diversity amongst capable judges whether he should be classed as a single species or race, or as two (Virey), as three (Jacquinot), as four (Kant), five (Blumenbach), six (Buffon), seven (Hunter), eight (Agassiz), eleven (Pickering), fifteen (Bory de St-Vincent), sixteen (Desmoulins), twenty-two (Morton), sixty (Crawfurd), or as sixty-three, according to Burke. This diversity of judgment does not prove that the races ought not to be ranked as species, but it shews that they graduate into each other, and that it is hardly possible to discover clear distinctive characters between them."
(you do realize that all people thought like the first part of the last sentence above in Darwin’s time, but it’s Darwin’s observations that led him to say "it is hardly possible to discover distinictive character between them.)

About Darwin's first book,
On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life, when they talk about "races" it's used as an alternative for "varieties" – the first use in the book refers to "the several races, for instance, of the cabbage", and Darwin proceeds to discuss "the hereditary varieties or races of our domestic animals and plants".[10]
From Wikipedia about The Origin of Species.

Where did Darwin mention Jews at all, much less those of the virulence expressed in Martin Luther's On the Jews and their Lies?

Try looking up "blood libel" on the net. See how much "darwinism" is in there. The Jewish Encyclopedia may be a good place to look, too.


The Popes Against the Jews: The Vatican's Role in the Rise of Modern Anti-Semitism
by David I. Kertzer


After Auschwitz: Religion and the Origins of the Death Camps. Bobbs-Merrill, Indianapolis, Ind., 1966

Quote
Theologian Richard Rubenstein wrote that the Nazis "did not invent a new villain...They took over the 2,000-year-old Christian trdition of the Jew as villain...The roots of the death camps must be sought in the mythic structure of Christianity...Myths concerning the demonological role of the Jews have been operative in Christianity for centuries...
Has God Rejected His People? Anti-Judaism in the Christian Church, Abingdon, Nashville, Tenn. 1982

Quote
Theologian Clark Williamson of Christian Theological Seminary, Indianapolis, said centuries of Christian hostility to Jews "prepared the way for the Holocaust" he said the Nazis "are inconcievable apart from this Christian tradition. Hitler's pogrom, for all its distinctiveness, is the zenith of a long Christian heritage of teaching and practice against Jews.

Fratricide: The Theological Roots of Anti-Semitism

Dagobert Runes' books: "The Jew and the Cross" and "The War Against the Jew" by Philosophical Library, New York.
Quote
Everything Hitler did to the Jews, all the horrible, unspeakable misdeeds, had already been done to the smitten people before by the Christian churches....The isolation of Jews into ghetto camps, the wearing of the yellow spot, the burning of Jewish books, and finally the burning of the people-Hitler learned it all from the church. However, the church burned Jewish women and children alive, while Hitler granted them a quicker death, choking them first with gas.


Here’s a Jewish site where they discuss anti-semitism. Oddly enough, evolution is not brought up…guess what is??

The jewsforjudaism site. Check out the "New Testament Anti-Semitism" section of the Knowledge Base.


As for Richard Weikart (http://darwinianconservatism.blogspot.ca/2006/02/review-of-richard-weikarts-from-darwin.html), the author of From Darwin to Hitler and other such tomes,  who is the creationists' favourite historian when it comes to Darwin and Hitler?

He's not all he's cracked up to be  (http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2006/06/from_darwin_to_1.html):

Quote
To be fair to Weikart, his webpage lists his replies to historian critics, including Richards (evidently Weikart has another critic who bashed his book in the Journal of Modern History, although I have not yet read the review in the March 2006 issue of the journal).

Weikart’s reply is basically “But I didn’t mean to tar Darwin and evolution with the odious reputation of Hitler and the Nazis, I put some weak disclaimers to this effect at the beginning of my book.” But this is ludicrous. The title of Weikart’s book is From Darwin to Hitler, and he has participated in and endorsed the streams of anti-evolution propaganda put out by the Discovery Institute and related groups – see the links above, and don’t miss www.darwintohitler.com – based explicitly on Weikart’s book (which, if memory serves, the Discovery Institute financed in the first place). At best, Weikart is an innocent academic who is being used by the creationists for their own nefarious ends. But it’s impossible to believe that he is that stupid, especially since he has regularly shown up at ID conferences and events (and in their videos) to advocate his thesis.

Edit on Oct 6, 2013:
Was Hitler a Darwinian? (http://home.uchicago.edu/~rjr6/articles/Was%20Hitler%20a%20Darwinian.pdf)

Edit on Oct 13, 2013
more info by Gary S. Hurd (http://stonesnbones.blogspot.ca/2011/10/weikart-gasmam-darwin-hitler-and-jojo.html)

even more by Gary S. Hurd (http://stonesnbones.blogspot.ca/2012/01/more-about-nazi-darwinists.html)
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: WarGoatHK417 on May 18, 2013, 05:48:44 pm
So, any recommendations for the KJV cultists?
Yes, but if I say it on a public forum, homeland security will get called onto my ass.
D you mean metal to troll 'em with, not "go fuck yourself with a Husqvarna chainsaw", etc?  Not that I don't sympathize with the latter.
Either way, the upside is, if it comes to Homeland Security's attention, Moonbattery would also likely post it as an example of "terrorist-sympathizing gay atheist psycho lib'ruls at FSTDT fantasize about murder and mutilation Bible-believing Christians".  I say this because Dave Blount hates (http://moonbattery.com/?p=28677) good music almost as much as he loves licking Jean Raspail's asshole (http://moonbattery.com/?s=%22Camp+of+the+Saints%22),  as Rabbit of Caerbannog has documented splendidly*.

*There would be a link there, but I'm tired of putting so many freaking links already in this minor post, so if it's okay with the rest of you, I'll add this one later.  For those who aren't already familiar with Dave Blount's recently growing love affair with straight-up biological racialism (http://moonbattery.com/?s=%22Jared+Taylor%22), this post (http://moonbattery.com/?p=26897) is particularly famous (http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=93165).** 
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**I would imagine the cognitive dissonance of someone who cites (http://moonbattery.com/?p=29638) Neo-Nazi "educational material" like Camp of the Saints and Metapedia (http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Beat_Up_a_White_Kid_Day) while hating Hitler at the same time is only possible if one believes that the NSDAP folks were liberals, in either the classic or bullshit-American-politics sense.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: WarGoatHK417 on May 18, 2013, 05:53:20 pm
To those who claim that there was a link between Darwin and Hitler, this is basically reprinted from a post (http://web.archive.org/web/20110107063023/http://raycomfortfood.blogspot.com/2008/03/expelled-review.html?showComment=1206808080000#c5453603529948094613) that I put on Ray Comfort's blog once, with minor corrections about Karl Leuger and added info about Richard Weikart.

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You, sir/madam/entity, are fucking awesome.

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Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: WarGoatHK417 on May 18, 2013, 07:12:03 pm
I have my own problems with the NIV, but I think it's safe to say that they're not the ones Mr. Hovind has. Also I'm laughing pretty hard at his rationale for old manuscripts not being trustworthy, talking about them not being used, since using manuscripts is apparently like using bars of soap.

Misquoting Jesus was particularly enlightening about  the problems a biblical inerrancy proponent would have a hard time overcoming.

There is nothing to say here but right. freaking. on.
There is probably a brilliant post someone made somewhere about why a translation that basically keeps the translation errors of KJV, but updated with modern English for modern misogynists and homophobes, should not be the go-to translation for the majority of English-speaking Protestants...
And, of course, since Misquoting Jesus is convincing and difficult to refute (and Bart Ehrman rocks, as long as it's not an in-person debate), it's easy for them to believe "homosexual", "liberal", "watering down scripture"*, "atheist evolutionist poison" and therefore "seductive lies of the devil," meaning that congregants who are "good Bible-believing Christians" had better avoid it like Harry Potter and Wendy McElroy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_McElroy) (you should definitely read her "blasphemous heresy" here (http://www.wendymcelroy.com/xxx/) if you're interested).
This makes it deliciously ironic when the Moonbattery crowd goes on to praise another atheist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand) who makes Ehrman look like an extremely pious monk.  Not to mention John Derbyshire (http://moonbattery.com/?s=Derbyshire).  Apparently it's only a person (http://moonbattery.com/?s=Obama+islamist) they imagine to be an atheist (who is also a Muslim at the same time) (http://moonbattery.com/?p=12115#comment-273580) that Blount & Friends has a problem with.

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On a more positive note... (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/12/13/introducing-the-queen-james-bible/)

(And then there's more boring crap explaining the methodology of my lengthy responses.  Avoid if uninterested)
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Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: Dakota Bob on May 19, 2013, 04:04:29 am
Might want to be editing your posts there, sonny.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: WarGoatHK417 on May 19, 2013, 05:11:54 am
Might want to be editing your posts there, sonny.

That last one was posted by mistake.  Are there other ones that need editing??

@R.U. Sirius: You mean I should copy everything from my previous reply posts and paste it all in a single post, then delete the old ones?  I can do that, I just made separate posts because each reply seemed lengthy and topically divergent, and at some point, the character limit is reached, so multiple reply posts become necessary anyway.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: R. U. Sirius on May 19, 2013, 06:11:22 am
It gets annoying to people when one person makes multiple posts in a row. It's considered in better form to make one long post replying to all of the ones you want to reply to. Check out some of SpukiKitty's recent posts for examples of this.
Title: Re: Kent Hovind fanatics: NIV = Gays = Darwinism = Hitler
Post by: the_ignored on May 19, 2013, 09:56:53 am
For those interested, there is an old conversation about Darwin and his supposed "racism" in this thread (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?140397-The-Preservation-of-Favoured-Races&s=71b7025b0eb4aff0d70ffd84f2d9eb7c&p=3070829#post3070829) on another forum.  I've linked to this particular post because he mentions Weikart here, and he does a good job talking about Darwin's book.

That poster has a kickass quote from ICR founder Henry Morris and his views about race.  It's a real eye-opener.