Author Topic: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington  (Read 387057 times)

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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #75 on: November 23, 2016, 05:20:54 am »
I bet you are glad that you didn't elect the candidate that couldn't keep national secrets properly stored.

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/21/kris-kobach-accidentally-leaked-homeland-security-plans-during-a-photo-op/

...Oops.
SPESHUL PROSECUTA...oh, it's our guy...

The stuff about voting on his binder is concerning, a federal attempt to suppress votes could be bloody scary.

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #76 on: November 23, 2016, 07:48:23 am »
I miss the good old days when Neo-Nazis looked like this and didn't have any political support...
(click to show/hide)
Pekka Siitoin and his KDP (National Democratic Party) of drunken village idiots... good times.

This needs the legendary video about the party's seminar on a Baltic Sea cruise ship shot by a Swedish TV crew. Siitoin has a "discussion" in English with a Dutch guy and his Swedish girlfriend at 2:20. The rest of the video is mostly slightly more coherent drunken rambling in Finnish.
http://youtu.be/wGSL6MkZpvQ?t=2m20s

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGSL6MkZpvQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGSL6MkZpvQ</a>

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #77 on: November 23, 2016, 03:36:12 pm »
So, how much damage do you think Trump will be able to do? Considering he's at loggerheads with much of the GOP, I'm cautiously optimistic.
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #78 on: November 23, 2016, 04:42:32 pm »
So, how much damage do you think Trump will be able to do? Considering he's at loggerheads with much of the GOP, I'm cautiously optimistic.

They'll all kiss the ring, as will a good chunk of the Democrats.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #79 on: November 23, 2016, 05:23:51 pm »
So, how much damage do you think Trump will be able to do? Considering he's at loggerheads with much of the GOP, I'm cautiously optimistic.

They'll all kiss the ring, as will a good chunk of the Democrats.

Assuming that happens, what can be done to counter it? Let's think proactively.
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.

Offline Stormwarden

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #80 on: November 23, 2016, 05:49:51 pm »
Well, we could try to invoke Article 1, Section 9 of the US Constitution. in particular, the emoulement clause:


"No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State."

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec9.html





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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #81 on: November 23, 2016, 06:05:41 pm »
So, how much damage do you think Trump will be able to do? Considering he's at loggerheads with much of the GOP, I'm cautiously optimistic.

They'll all kiss the ring, as will a good chunk of the Democrats.

Assuming that happens, what can be done to counter it? Let's think proactively.

I was being a bit hyperbolic. For one, it's very likely that the filibuster will remain in place, which will mean that on many issues, if the Democrats can present a united front (or even just near-united), they can block most legislative action, along with things like Supreme Court and Cabinet appointments. Sen. Graham has already said he'd vote against killing the filibuster, and there's a good chance that some others, like Sen. Collins, would join him.

For another, there are some Republicans who may well buck the party--people like Sen. Collins, from Democratic-leaning states, or people who will do so on principle, like Sen. Graham with the filibuster or Sen. Paul with certain Cabinet appoinments (he's said he'd block any attempt to appoint Bolton or Giuliani as Secretary of State, because they're massive hawks and he's a non-interventionist).

Probably the single most important--and achievable--thing they can do in the short term is pour resources into the Louisiana Senate runoff. If they can win that--and it would be an uphill battle--then they'd only need 2 Republican Senators to block any legislation, which is significantly more attainable than three, especially when you know that on many issues you'll already be able to find at least one who's said he or she will oppose it. It won't always work--executive orders, lower federal courts, reconciliation--and they won't be able to get anything of their own through (since they're nowhere close to having the House), but that's how I'd try to stem the tide.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #82 on: November 23, 2016, 08:06:29 pm »
Well, we could try to invoke Article 1, Section 9 of the US Constitution. in particular, the emoulement clause:


"No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State."

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec9.html

I wouldn't put any hope in anything like that. At this point Trump's boast about killing someone in broad daylight on 5th Avenue is seeming far less like a boast and far more like a simple statement of reality.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Art Vandelay

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2016, 07:32:39 am »
So I found this rather interesting video on the matter.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td5xFxiEuQQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td5xFxiEuQQ</a>
Interesting idea, and if nothing else, it's good that people are recognising that this ultra-polarised, "us vs them" approach to politics is not the way to do things. At risk of repeating myself a tad, Trump's victory could ultimately be a good thing if it teaches us all that having an actual dialogue with his supporters is a better idea than simply calling them racist and stupid. Yeah, it's probably wishful thinking that any of these oh so promising and hopeful words will ever translate into actual action, but a guy can dream, no?

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2016, 02:48:36 pm »
I'm disappointed that the Democrats learned nothing from Brexit. Shaming people into voting your way doesn't work.
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2016, 04:32:57 pm »
How is putting a moratorium on calling Trump Supporters or Brexit supporters racist any different to insisting black people can't be racist or women can't be sexist? It's creating a protected class that we all have to treat with kid gloves lest we offend someone.

If a Trump supporter or a Brexit voter celebrates their victory by attacking minorities do we call them...something else?

Or is there an ironclad rule that we preface it with #notallXsupporters first?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 04:38:19 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2016, 04:44:09 pm »
How is putting a moratorium on calling Trump Supporters or Brexit supporters racist any different to insisting black people can't be racist or women can't be sexist? It's creating a protected class that we all have to treat with kid gloves lest we offend someone.

If a Trump supporter or a Brexit voter celebrates their victory by attacking minorities do we call them...something else?

Or is there an ironclad rule that we preface it with #notallXsupporters first?

That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that appealing to shame didn't work in Britain, and it didn't work here. Telling people they're racist idiots unless they vote your way is ineffective at best, counterproductive at worst.

And I'm not saying we treat them with kid gloves, just that we not generalize them.
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #87 on: November 24, 2016, 06:18:55 pm »
Remember that Clinton's "basket of deplorables" comment was aimed at half of Trump's supporters. The other half, she correctly noted, were people who were pissed off about the economy. (A good chunk of that was people being pissed off at policies her husband had put in place, like NAFTA or the repeal of Glass-Steagall, but she was still right that they were angry because of the economy, not because the blacks and hispanics and Muslims and Asians are raping, killing, and stealing from good white folk and the women are getting uppity and not staying in the kitchen and the gays are shoving their agendas down our throats.)
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Art Vandelay

  • Guest
Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #88 on: November 24, 2016, 06:36:03 pm »
How is putting a moratorium on calling Trump Supporters or Brexit supporters racist any different to insisting black people can't be racist or women can't be sexist? It's creating a protected class that we all have to treat with kid gloves lest we offend someone.

If a Trump supporter or a Brexit voter celebrates their victory by attacking minorities do we call them...something else?

Or is there an ironclad rule that we preface it with #notallXsupporters first?
Where did I say anything about treating them with kid gloves? It pisses me off that we're all expected to do that for religion. I'd never argue we should coddle right wingers in the same manner. In fact, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that "a dialogue" with one's political opponents means a discussion or debate of some kind. You know, which involves at certain points telling them where they're wrong and why they're wrong in as much detail as possible. This of course includes any issues on which you feel they're wrong, racism included.

All I'm saying is doing nothing but hurling insults at them is quite possibly the worst way to go about it. Not because I'm personally offended on the poor little darling's behalf, but because that's probably the worst thing you can do in terms of winning hearts and minds, which is really what an election is all about. If you attack and alienate people instead of trying to talk to and persuade them, how the fuck do think they're going to vote come election day?

Or, you know, we could just stay or course, or perhaps even go full Niam. I'm sure that won't lead to another four years of President Trump or anything, and some other far right lunatic after that, no, not at all.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 06:42:21 pm by Art Vandelay »

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #89 on: November 24, 2016, 09:08:17 pm »
That's true for political parties, for sure but if some Trump supporter jumps into a leftie thread and barfs "suck it byatches, your spook in chief is gone and your byatch is bleeding from her whateva" are said lefties under any obligation to hold back on those hurtful accusations of bigotry?

In any case Clinton went to great pains to talk about the Trump voters who weren't Deplorables but merely justifiably worried about their economic and social prospects. Fox News, Brietbart, Heat St et al filtered that into "SNOOTY McSNOOT CALLS Y'ALL DEPLORABLE!!!"