FSTDT Forums
Rubbish => Preaching and Worship => Topic started by: Jacob Harrison on November 03, 2018, 12:35:19 pm
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The Genesis creation narrative which metaphorically describes the creation of the Earth, and the evolution of life and mankind is very similar to ancient Mesopotamian creation accounts indicating that the Mesopotamian creation accounts are based on the book of Genesis validating the book of Genesis. The Epic of Gilgamesh for example describes the incident in the Garden of Eden, all the way up to the great flood in the Middle East.
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The Genesis creation narrative which metaphorically describes the creation of the Earth, and the evolution of life and mankind is very similar to ancient Mesopotamian creation accounts indicating that the Mesopotamian creation accounts are based on the book of Genesis validating the book of Genesis. The Epic of Gilgamesh for example describes the incident in the Garden of Eden, all the way up to the great flood in the Middle East.
Cart before the horse, Mesopotamia came first, Judaism came later. Judaism incorporated Mesopotamian myths into their own mythology because incorporating other religious stories into your own religion is really common.
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The Genesis creation narrative which metaphorically describes the creation of the Earth, and the evolution of life and mankind is very similar to ancient Mesopotamian creation accounts indicating that the Mesopotamian creation accounts are based on the book of Genesis validating the book of Genesis. The Epic of Gilgamesh for example describes the incident in the Garden of Eden, all the way up to the great flood in the Middle East.
Cart before the horse, Mesopotamia came first, Judaism came later. Judaism incorporated Mesopotamian myths into their own mythology because incorporating other religious stories into your own religion is really common.
It is more likely that the Mesopotamia stories are later embellishments because the Old Testament does not have Mesopotamian gods in them, which they would if the Mesopotamian stories were incorporated.
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Your story, predictably, takes the legends of Judaism at face value. The earliest archaeological evidence for Israel is the Merneptah Stele dated 1230 BC (https://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/merneptah-stele-faq.htm), the Eridu Genesis which is Sumerian not Mesopotamian but has the tale of the great flood the Israelites probably copied is dated 2300 BC (https://www.ancient-code.com/sumerian-story-great-flood-eridu-genesis/), the name Israel itself invokes other pagan gods and there is evidence that the ancient Israelites worshipped them (https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium.MAGAZINE-how-the-jews-invented-god-and-made-him-great-1.5392677).
Judaism isn't even the first to come up with Monotheism, the cult of Aten preceded the earliest archaeological evidence of "Israel" mentioned above. It's just another example of how mythology changes and evolves with time.
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And don't forget the Zoroastrians.
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Your story, predictably, takes the legends of Judaism at face value. The earliest archaeological evidence for Israel is the Merneptah Stele dated 1230 BC (https://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/merneptah-stele-faq.htm), the Eridu Genesis which is Sumerian not Mesopotamian but has the tale of the great flood the Israelites probably copied is dated 2300 BC (https://www.ancient-code.com/sumerian-story-great-flood-eridu-genesis/), the name Israel itself invokes other pagan gods and there is evidence that the ancient Israelites worshipped them (https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium.MAGAZINE-how-the-jews-invented-god-and-made-him-great-1.5392677).
Judaism isn't even the first to come up with Monotheism, the cult of Aten preceded the earliest archaeological evidence of "Israel" mentioned above. It's just another example of how mythology changes and evolves with time.
Both the Book of Genesis and the Eridu Genesis are written accounts based on what was told in oral tradition. Since the Israelites were God’s chosen people, God had them have the more accurate account of what happened.
I unfortunetely do not have full access to the Haretz article because I’m not subscribed, but I know this. The name Israel has El in it, and El is a Hebrew term in the Old Testament used synonymously with Yahweh. And the Bible documents that the Ancient Israelites turned against God and began worshipping Pagan gods. That is why God had them go into exile.
And thank you for citing the Mernaptah Stele, which is historical proof that Israel was a significant nation at that time, which is more proof of the Bible.
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Your story, predictably, takes the legends of Judaism at face value. The earliest archaeological evidence for Israel is the Merneptah Stele dated 1230 BC (https://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/merneptah-stele-faq.htm), the Eridu Genesis which is Sumerian not Mesopotamian but has the tale of the great flood the Israelites probably copied is dated 2300 BC (https://www.ancient-code.com/sumerian-story-great-flood-eridu-genesis/), the name Israel itself invokes other pagan gods and there is evidence that the ancient Israelites worshipped them (https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium.MAGAZINE-how-the-jews-invented-god-and-made-him-great-1.5392677).
Judaism isn't even the first to come up with Monotheism, the cult of Aten preceded the earliest archaeological evidence of "Israel" mentioned above. It's just another example of how mythology changes and evolves with time.
Both the Book of Genesis and the Eridu Genesis are written accounts based on what was told in oral tradition. Since the Israelites were God’s chosen people, God had them have the more accurate account of what happened.
I unfortunetely do not have full access to the Haretz article because I’m not subscribed, but I know this. The name Israel has El in it, and El is a Hebrew term in the Old Testament used synonymously with Yahweh. And the Bible documents that the Ancient Israelites turned against God and began worshipping Pagan gods. That is why God had them go into exile.
And thank you for citing the Mernaptah Stele, which is historical proof that Israel was a significant nation at that time, which is more proof of the Bible.
"Ceased to exist" is not proof of significance. It's evidence that they knew it once existed but wasn't significant enough to last and it's the only solid proof of it's existence at the time, the bible was penned later so there's no evidence that the stories that finally made it into their pages were based on the oral traditions of whoever the ancestors of the Israelite were.
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Your story, predictably, takes the legends of Judaism at face value. The earliest archaeological evidence for Israel is the Merneptah Stele dated 1230 BC (https://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/merneptah-stele-faq.htm), the Eridu Genesis which is Sumerian not Mesopotamian but has the tale of the great flood the Israelites probably copied is dated 2300 BC (https://www.ancient-code.com/sumerian-story-great-flood-eridu-genesis/), the name Israel itself invokes other pagan gods and there is evidence that the ancient Israelites worshipped them (https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium.MAGAZINE-how-the-jews-invented-god-and-made-him-great-1.5392677).
Judaism isn't even the first to come up with Monotheism, the cult of Aten preceded the earliest archaeological evidence of "Israel" mentioned above. It's just another example of how mythology changes and evolves with time.
Both the Book of Genesis and the Eridu Genesis are written accounts based on what was told in oral tradition. Since the Israelites were God’s chosen people, God had them have the more accurate account of what happened.
I unfortunetely do not have full access to the Haretz article because I’m not subscribed, but I know this. The name Israel has El in it, and El is a Hebrew term in the Old Testament used synonymously with Yahweh. And the Bible documents that the Ancient Israelites turned against God and began worshipping Pagan gods. That is why God had them go into exile.
And thank you for citing the Mernaptah Stele, which is historical proof that Israel was a significant nation at that time, which is more proof of the Bible.
"Ceased to exist" is not proof of significance. It's evidence that they knew it once existed but wasn't significant enough to last and it's the only solid proof of it's existence at the time, the bible was penned later so there's no evidence that the stories that finally made it into their pages were based on the oral traditions of whoever the ancestors of the Israelite were.
It does not say “ceased to exist.” It says that Israel is laid waste. Evidence that the stories were based on oral traditions is the fact that the Mesopotamian accounts are different from the Bible accounts indicating that the Bible accounts did not copy the Mesopotamian accounts but that they instead are both based on oral tradition.
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So at the bottom of this pile of bollocks you have fireside yarns that change with each telling like a game of Chinese whispers? Geddoudahere!
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So at the bottom of this pile of bollocks you have fireside yarns that change with each telling like a game of Chinese whispers? Geddoudahere!
But the oral traditions that the Old Testamament was based on is accurate because God made it so, since the Israelites were his chosen people who were going to write it down, so he wanted it to be accurate.
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So at the bottom of this pile of bollocks you have fireside yarns that change with each telling like a game of Chinese whispers? Geddoudahere!
But the oral traditions that the Old Testamament was based on is accurate because God made it so, since the Israelites were his chosen people who were going to write it down, so he wanted it to be accurate.
Beautifully circular logic, the OT said God wrote it so it was divinely inspired because it says so.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gBu4k23yvf0/UOiYuc7NLqI/AAAAAAAAE6Q/wflI9FWtxu8/s400/Circular_reasoning.jpg)
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So at the bottom of this pile of bollocks you have fireside yarns that change with each telling like a game of Chinese whispers? Geddoudahere!
But the oral traditions that the Old Testamament was based on is accurate because God made it so, since the Israelites were his chosen people who were going to write it down, so he wanted it to be accurate.
Beautifully circular logic, the OT said God wrote it so it was divinely inspired because it says so.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gBu4k23yvf0/UOiYuc7NLqI/AAAAAAAAE6Q/wflI9FWtxu8/s400/Circular_reasoning.jpg)
It is not circular logic because there is evidence outside the Bible such as Our Lady of Fátima and the Soviet Scientists who drilled a hole in the Earth and discovered hell.
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https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-well-to-hell/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-well-to-hell/)
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https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-well-to-hell/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-well-to-hell/)
Snopes is run by heathens who hate Godly people. Of course they would lie about the truth of any claim that so clearly and unequivocally demonstrates the validity of Christianity.
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https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-well-to-hell/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-well-to-hell/)
Ok, you made me realize that the well to hell was a hoax. I found a YouTube video on it and believed it. Maybe I should check the sources before believing a YouTube video.
However, a true thing that happened is that the diver Jacques Cousteau and one of his men heard sounds of human screaming when exploring an underwater gave in the Bermuda Triangle.
Furthermore, scientists have validated hell when making underwater discoveries.
Scientists recently discovered cracks on the ocean floor where fire was leaking out. Do you know what they found around these fire-breathing vents in the crust? Riftia, giant tube WORMS. Measuring up to 8 feet in length, the worms are ONLY FOUND NEAR DEEP SEA VENTS."
And Jesus Christ said, "Where their WORMS dieth not, and the fire is not quenched"
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https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-well-to-hell/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-well-to-hell/)
Ok, you made me realize that the well to hell was a hoax. I found a YouTube video on it and believed it. Maybe I should check the sources before believing a YouTube video.
However, a true thing that happened is that the diver Jacques Cousteau and one of his men heard sounds of human screaming when exploring an underwater gave in the Bermuda Triangle.
Furthermore, scientists have validated hell when making underwater discoveries.
Scientists recently discovered cracks on the ocean floor where fire was leaking out. Do you know what they found around these fire-breathing vents in the crust? Riftia, giant tube WORMS. Measuring up to 8 feet in length, the worms are ONLY FOUND NEAR DEEP SEA VENTS."
And Jesus Christ said, "Where their WORMS dieth not, and the fire is not quenched"
Jacob does another embarrassing reverse without giving any ground because evidence literally doesn't matter to him. He's proof-proof!
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https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-well-to-hell/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-well-to-hell/)
Ok, you made me realize that the well to hell was a hoax. I found a YouTube video on it and believed it. Maybe I should check the sources before believing a YouTube video.
However, a true thing that happened is that the diver Jacques Cousteau and one of his men heard sounds of human screaming when exploring an underwater gave in the Bermuda Triangle.
Furthermore, scientists have validated hell when making underwater discoveries.
Scientists recently discovered cracks on the ocean floor where fire was leaking out. Do you know what they found around these fire-breathing vents in the crust? Riftia, giant tube WORMS. Measuring up to 8 feet in length, the worms are ONLY FOUND NEAR DEEP SEA VENTS."
And Jesus Christ said, "Where their WORMS dieth not, and the fire is not quenched"
Jacob does another embarrassing reverse without giving any ground because evidence literally doesn't matter to him. He's proof-proof!
But Jacques Cousteau and the Riftia worms have not been proven wrong like the Well to Hell. How do you explain the human screaming that Jacques Cousteau heard in an underwater cave, and the fact that Riftia worms exist?
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Evolution works and I can hear the ocean in seashells too.
It ain't there!
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Evolution works and I can hear the ocean in seashells too.
It ain't there!
But Riftia worms live near deep ocean hydrothermal vents caused by volcanic activity. How do you explain the fact that it perfectly matches the biblical description of a place with worms and fire. There is no other place on Earth like that. If Jesus was not the messiah, how did he and the writers know about the deep ocean hydrothermal vents?
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Evolutionary adaptation. Note, while they can live next to black smokers in abyssal ocean trenches, we suck at it. You can't torment someone who's dead.
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Evolutionary adaptation. Note, while they can live next to black smokers in abyssal ocean trenches, we suck at it. You can't torment someone who's dead.
But that does not explain how the writers of the New Testament knew about it. And since those in hell are spirits who are already dead, they can be tormented by the deep ocean vents.
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"Where their WORMS dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" can mean anything that both has worms of some kind and is at least a little hotter than average. It does not mean the writers knew about deep sea volcanic vents.
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"Where their WORMS dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" can mean anything that both has worms of some kind and is at least a little hotter than average. It does not mean the writers knew about deep sea volcanic vents.
It wouldn’t make sense for the word fire to be referring to anything other than fire. Back then, people thought that lava was fire. There are no other places on Earth where worms live by fire.
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"Where their WORMS dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" can mean anything that both has worms of some kind and is at least a little hotter than average. It does not mean the writers knew about deep sea volcanic vents.
It wouldn’t make sense for the word fire to be referring to anything other than fire. Back then, people thought that lava was fire. There are no other places on Earth where worms live by fire.
Ever heard of a little thing called imagination?
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"Where their WORMS dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" can mean anything that both has worms of some kind and is at least a little hotter than average. It does not mean the writers knew about deep sea volcanic vents.
It wouldn’t make sense for the word fire to be referring to anything other than fire. Back then, people thought that lava was fire. There are no other places on Earth where worms live by fire.
Ever heard of a little thing called imagination?
It is highly unlikely that people would imagine something that coincidentally matches what takes place in the deep ocean.
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It is highly unlikely that people would imagine something that coincidentally matches what takes place in the deep ocean.
Write enough vague bullshit and it'll eventually somewhat match up to a thing that actually exists.
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It is highly unlikely that people would imagine something that coincidentally matches what takes place in the deep ocean.
Write enough vague bullshit and it'll eventually somewhat match up to a thing that actually exists.
However why would someone imagine worms in a place with fire in the first place? That indicates that it was not imagined, but instead the information was given to the writer by Jesus Christ.
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However why would someone imagine worms in a place with fire in the first place? That indicates that it was not imagined, but instead the information was given to the writer by Jesus Christ.
You're the guy who says there's a parallel universe where God actually exists and you're a higher-up in some sort of fundamentalist European dictatorship, and there's a wizard who keeps having your doppelganger give you memories of a new True Heir every week or so, and you're saying imagining worms and fire together is just a tad too out there for humans to envision.
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However why would someone imagine worms in a place with fire in the first place? That indicates that it was not imagined, but instead the information was given to the writer by Jesus Christ.
You're the guy who says there's a parallel universe where God actually exists and you're a higher-up in some sort of fundamentalist European dictatorship, and there's a wizard who keeps having your doppelganger give you memories of a new True Heir every week or so, and you're saying imagining worms and fire together is just a tad too out there for humans to envision.
Worms would die due to the heat of the fire so it is not something anybody could imagine.
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Worms would die due to the heat of the fire so it is not something anybody could imagine.
Really? Thinking "what if we had those long, slimy things that burrow in the ground, but bigger, on fire and they eat people?" is just too wacky for the human mind to possibly comprehend. Replace worms with lizards and you basically have dragons, and many different peoples had no problem making those up. Not to mention, this scepticism of the human imagination coming from the guy who came up with taking over Europe on behalf of his True Heir of the week with the help of a wizard and his own doppelganger from a parallel universe where neo-feudalist Catholic fundies have taken over all of Europe and the Middle East.
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Worms would die due to the heat of the fire so it is not something anybody could imagine.
Really? Thinking "what if we had those long, slimy things that burrow in the ground, but bigger, on fire and they eat people?" is just too wacky for the human mind to possibly comprehend. Replace worms with lizards and you basically have dragons, and many different peoples had no problem making those up. Not to mention, this scepticism of the human imagination coming from the guy who came up with taking over Europe on behalf of his True Heir of the week with the help of a wizard and his own doppelganger from a parallel universe where neo-feudalist Catholic fundies have taken over all of Europe and the Middle East.
Very well. However the screams Jacques Cousteau is heard is proof and cannot be explained by Tolpuddle Martyr’s explanation of hearing the ocean in seashells because that is explained by science https://www.livescience.com/33041-why-do-seashells-sound-like-the-ocean.html while there is no explanation why the sound of human screaming would be heard underwater.
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He's either hallucinating or making shit up. It's not complicated.
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"Where their WORMS dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" can mean anything that both has worms of some kind and is at least a little hotter than average. It does not mean the writers knew about deep sea volcanic vents.
In case it needs to be added the wormeths definitely dieth. They aren't cancers.