Author Topic: The fight over Hugo awards  (Read 12806 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
The fight over Hugo awards
« on: April 10, 2015, 04:30:33 am »
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/apr/09/george-rr-martin-right-wing-broken-hugo-awards?CMP=share_btn_fb

http://www.catherynnemvalente.com/holding-the-hugos-and-the-english-language-hostage-for-fun-and-profit/

So... Apparently people have drawn politics into SF/F writing awards. Not the first time it has happened but this time Vox Day, Torgersen and their crew have been far more successful.

As Torgersen wrote:

Quote
[Twenty years ago] “if you saw a lovely spaceship on a book cover, with a gorgeous planet in the background, you could be pretty sure you were going to get a rousing space adventure featuring starships and distant, amazing worlds”. Nowadays, he claims, the same jacket is likely to be a story “merely about racial prejudice and exploitation, with interplanetary or interstellar trappings”.

OH NO! The damn commies are talking about social issues in their books rather than writing about brainless swashbuckling heroism where conservative heroes save damsels in distress! THIS ATROCITY MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE! And as a result they organized voting to make sure that "proper" books win the award.

G.R.R. Martin complains that from now on Hugo awards will be won by the books that have had the best organized campaigns rather than those that were most liked by the readers.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Igor

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1018
  • Gender: Male
  • Welcome to the velvet room...
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2015, 07:05:52 am »
I'm with GRRM on this, and correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't SF [/i]always[/i] had an aspect of social commentary about it? A little show from the 60s called Star Trek comes to mind, maybe these people have heard of it.


Quote from: Quasirodent
The logical response to getting that tingle in his dingle is turning into an asshat, of course.

Les ananas ne parlent pas!

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2015, 09:35:54 am »
Actually, from what I've read, the Hugo Awards have been political for quite some time.  According to Larry Correia, certain participants at Worldcon were orchestrating a smear campaign against him and his books because of his political views.  Sad Puppies was created as a reaction to that, in order to expose liberal bias.

Also, Vox Day isn't involved in Sad Puppies. 

It's not an anti-diversity campaign, either.  Entertainment Weekly was forced to admit that. 

Quote
CORRECTION: After misinterpreting reports in other news publications, EW published an unfair and inaccurate depiction of the Sad Puppies voting slate, which does, in fact, include many women and writers of color. As Sad Puppies’ Brad Torgerson explained to EW, the slate includes both women and non-caucasian writers, including Rajnar Vajra, Larry Correia, Annie Bellet, Kary English, Toni Weisskopf, Ann Sowards, Megan Gray, Sheila Gilbert, Jennifer Brozek, Cedar Sanderson, and Amanda Green.

This story has been updated to more accurately reflect this. EW regrets the error.

Quite frankly, the media coverage of Sad Puppies is fucking shameful.

http://news.investors.com/040715-746871-entertainment-weekly-commits-a-journalism-foul.htm?ven=yahoocp&src=aurlled&ven=yahoo

I do think Martin's criticisms have validity, however.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2015, 09:41:38 am »
Actually, from what I've read, the Hugo Awards have been political for quite some time.  According to Larry Correia, certain participants at Worldcon were orchestrating a smear campaign against him and his books because of his political views.  Sad Puppies was created as a reaction to that, in order to expose liberal bias.
These groups have been trying to rig the voting for three years at least and may have been created as a reaction to other such movements but according to Martin they haven't been successful before the latest Hugo. His fear is that now that these groups grew big enough to be really able to influence the results this will become the new normal with different blocks fighting over Hugo and there is no return to the old.

Also, Vox Day isn't involved in Sad Puppies. 
If you read the links you will see that Vox Day is involved with a group called "Rabid puppies."
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2015, 09:50:20 am »
Actually, from what I've read, the Hugo Awards have been political for quite some time.  According to Larry Correia, certain participants at Worldcon were orchestrating a smear campaign against him and his books because of his political views.  Sad Puppies was created as a reaction to that, in order to expose liberal bias.
These groups have been trying to rig the voting for three years at least and may have been created as a reaction to other such movements but according to Martin they haven't been successful before the latest Hugo. His fear is that now that these groups grew big enough to be really able to influence the results this will become the new normal with different blocks fighting over Hugo and there is no return to the old.

Again, a perfectly valid fear.

Also, Vox Day isn't involved in Sad Puppies. 
If you read the links you will see that Vox Day is involved with a group called "Rabid puppies."

Which has no actual connection to Sad Puppies.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2015, 11:54:28 am »
Also, Vox Day isn't involved in Sad Puppies. 
If you read the links you will see that Vox Day is involved with a group called "Rabid puppies."

Which has no actual connection to Sad Puppies.

...But it is another group doing the same thing as Sad puppies.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Sigmaleph

  • Ungodlike
  • Administrator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3615
    • sigmaleph on tumblr
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2015, 01:21:55 pm »
Actually, from what I've read, the Hugo Awards have been political for quite some time.  According to Larry Correia, certain participants at Worldcon were orchestrating a smear campaign against him and his books because of his political views.  Sad Puppies was created as a reaction to that, in order to expose liberal bias.
These groups have been trying to rig the voting for three years at least and may have been created as a reaction to other such movements but according to Martin they haven't been successful before the latest Hugo. His fear is that now that these groups grew big enough to be really able to influence the results this will become the new normal with different blocks fighting over Hugo and there is no return to the old.

Again, a perfectly valid fear.

Also, Vox Day isn't involved in Sad Puppies. 
If you read the links you will see that Vox Day is involved with a group called "Rabid puppies."

Which has no actual connection to Sad Puppies.

Except of course the ideological motivation is the same and the slates are 75% identical (yes, of course I did the math). For most purposes, the various kinds of Puppies are the same thing.
Σא

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2015, 03:10:37 pm »
Actually, from what I've read, the Hugo Awards have been political for quite some time.  According to Larry Correia, certain participants at Worldcon were orchestrating a smear campaign against him and his books because of his political views.  Sad Puppies was created as a reaction to that, in order to expose liberal bias.
These groups have been trying to rig the voting for three years at least and may have been created as a reaction to other such movements but according to Martin they haven't been successful before the latest Hugo. His fear is that now that these groups grew big enough to be really able to influence the results this will become the new normal with different blocks fighting over Hugo and there is no return to the old.

Again, a perfectly valid fear.

Also, Vox Day isn't involved in Sad Puppies. 
If you read the links you will see that Vox Day is involved with a group called "Rabid puppies."

Which has no actual connection to Sad Puppies.

Except of course the ideological motivation is the same and the slates are 75% identical (yes, of course I did the math). For most purposes, the various kinds of Puppies are the same thing.

Any cause is bound to attract more than one movement.  Just look at animal rights.  You have admirable organizations like the ASPCA, and you have shitheads like PETA.  But they have the same ideological motivation, and there's an overlap in their positions.  And with Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies, you'd expect the overlap to be greater because the focus is narrower.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2015, 03:16:19 pm »
Their "focus" is to make people vote conservative writers rather than "leftists." It does not matter that their candidates aren't 100% the same, as long as they organize more votes for "proper" writers to draw the awards away from the unwanted writers.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2015, 03:53:29 pm »
Their "focus" is to make people vote conservative writers rather than "leftists." It does not matter that their candidates aren't 100% the same, as long as they organize more votes for "proper" writers to draw the awards away from the unwanted writers.

Switch "conservative" and "liberal" around, and you have the modus operandi of their enemies.

And I think that's an exaggeration.  From what I gather, most of the folks involved in Sad Puppies don't want to rig the awards in their favor, but to combat the politicization of the Hugo Awards.

However, I disagree with their tactics.  A more ethical response than what Sad Puppies did would simply be to try and recruit as many extra voters from everywhere you can.  That would dilute any established unnatural voting.  Organized voting lists was a poor response, and comes across as Sad Puppies pushing an agenda of their own rather than trying to restore a natural state.

Offline Ironchew

  • Official Edgelord
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1888
  • Gender: Male
  • The calm, intellectual Trotsky-like Trotskyist
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2015, 04:36:54 pm »
I already had my own opinion of the conservative hacks that started this whole shitstorm before I took a look in this thread, but UP certainly hasn't helped.

I've developed a heuristic based on past FQA commentary involving gates and ethics. Somewhere, somehow, the narrative UP sides with ends up being full of shit.

Switch "conservative" and "liberal" around, and you have the modus operandi of their enemies.

From what I gather, most of the folks involved in Sad Puppies don't want to rig the awards in their favor, but to combat the politicization of the Hugo Awards.

You're seeing liberal political intent where there was none. This is obviously a reactionary conservative intrusion into an apolitical nomination process.
Consumption is not a politically combative act — refraining from consumption even less so.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2015, 04:39:40 pm »
I already had my own opinion of the conservative hacks that started this whole shitstorm before I took a look in this thread, but UP certainly hasn't helped.

I've developed a heuristic based on past FQA commentary involving gates and ethics. Somewhere, somehow, the narrative UP sides with ends up being full of shit.

Switch "conservative" and "liberal" around, and you have the modus operandi of their enemies.

From what I gather, most of the folks involved in Sad Puppies don't want to rig the awards in their favor, but to combat the politicization of the Hugo Awards.

You're seeing liberal political intent where there was none. This is obviously a reactionary conservative intrusion into an apolitical nomination process.


Offline Ironchew

  • Official Edgelord
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1888
  • Gender: Male
  • The calm, intellectual Trotsky-like Trotskyist
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2015, 04:42:29 pm »
From what I gather, most of the folks involved in Sad Puppies don't want to rig the awards in their favor, but to combat the politicization of the Hugo Awards.

Seems to me you're making a positive claim there and I'm not convinced. You're the one that has to provide evidence of this prior politicization.
Consumption is not a politically combative act — refraining from consumption even less so.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2015, 05:01:45 pm »
From what I gather, most of the folks involved in Sad Puppies don't want to rig the awards in their favor, but to combat the politicization of the Hugo Awards.

Seems to me you're making a positive claim there and I'm not convinced. You're the one that has to provide evidence of this prior politicization.

Fair enough.  Here you go:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/04/28/hugo-awards-science-fiction-reading-politics-larry-correia-column/8282843/

And as for the proposed responses to this?  Well, most of them are horrible, as GRRM points out:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/418643.html

Offline ironbite

  • Overlord of all that is good in Iacon City
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10686
  • Gender: Male
  • Stuck in the middle with you.
Re: The fight over Hugo awards
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2015, 05:04:40 pm »
Can I just point out that we've got politics creeping into a fucking award for science fiction writing?  How fucked up is that?