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Rubbish => Preaching and Worship => Topic started by: Captain Jack Harkness on February 10, 2012, 08:14:08 pm

Title: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Captain Jack Harkness on February 10, 2012, 08:14:08 pm
Okay, so I just thought of something.  The story of Sodom & Gomorrah that so many fundies like to cite in their anti-gay rhetoric ends with drunken incest that leads to pregnancy.  So why are anti-gay people ignoring this part?

Quote
19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
19:32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
19:34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.    The Seduction of Lot
19:35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
19:36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
19:37 And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.   
19:38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

Far as I can tell, there's no condemnation of this act.  God doesn't smite them for this, after all!
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Eniliad on February 10, 2012, 08:28:57 pm
Except god didn't smite Sodom for homosexuality, as... I think Ezekiel... points out.

As for the incest... oh god, you creepy fuck.
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Captain Jack Harkness on February 10, 2012, 08:38:04 pm
Except god didn't smite Sodom for homosexuality, as... I think Ezekiel... points out.

As for the incest... oh god, you creepy fuck.

Anti-gay activists still point to it in their anti-gay rhetoric.  I'm just saying that it's there, so if they want to be consistent in their whole taking of biblical sexuality and all.
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Cataclysm on February 10, 2012, 08:44:49 pm
Because of the dozen of laws or so in Leviticus and Deuteronomy saying people who commit incest should be STWN'd

Also, the passage never condoned the Act. Yahweh was just too lazy to kill them.
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Eniliad on February 11, 2012, 01:14:22 am
I guess god has a refractory period of his own... he can only get so much smiting in in a day (thousand years)...
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: SpaceProg on February 11, 2012, 03:45:14 pm
If you take the whole Adam and Eve thing literally, the whole of humanity is a product of lots and lots and lots of incest. 
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Star Cluster on February 11, 2012, 03:54:53 pm
It's called "ignoring the inconvenient and/or contradictory parts."
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Cataclysm on February 11, 2012, 03:58:19 pm
If you take the whole Adam and Eve thing literally, the whole of humanity is a product of lots and lots and lots of incest.

Unless you take this verse more or less literally

Gen 1:27

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Captain Jack Harkness on February 11, 2012, 04:06:18 pm
If you take the whole Adam and Eve thing literally, the whole of humanity is a product of lots and lots and lots of incest.

Unless you take this verse more or less literally

Gen 1:27

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

This still doesn't resolve the flood causing a severe population bottleneck, requiring incest within every "kind."
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Cataclysm on February 11, 2012, 04:59:43 pm
Unless you subscribe to the local flood theory, since the Hebrew word for earth was erets, which also meant a smaller area.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H776
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: m52nickerson on February 12, 2012, 09:29:26 am
Unless you subscribe to the local flood theory, since the Hebrew word for earth was erets, which also meant a smaller area.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H776

Which makes sense.  Of course he whole Noah story is likely based on part of the ancient story of Gilgamesh.
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: SpaceProg on February 12, 2012, 02:33:42 pm
But we can agree that there was lots n' lots n' lots of yeehaw family reunion to meet women squeal like a pig action, right?
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: one-shot on February 13, 2012, 09:27:14 pm
I think God needs to come clean and make a post in the NSFW section, in the fetish thread.
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Undecided on March 04, 2012, 03:09:17 am
Because they use the Bible to justify their preconceived (and unscrutinized) understanding of good and bad rather than define their morality absolutely in terms of what the Bible says as a "true" literalist would?
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Vypernight on March 04, 2012, 04:08:59 am
The people of Sodom & Gomorrah threw a drunken party, surrounded by aoil, alcohol, and torches, and turned their cities into a giant crate.  Obviously, they couldn't ban alcohol, especially in the sanctity of church, so they needed a skapegoat. 

I guess rather than say, "We learned from this to be more responsibile around alcohol, especially if things that can be set on fire are nearby," they went with, "Kill The Gays!"

Makes sense.
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Yla on March 04, 2012, 07:24:59 am
It is to be noted that the people of Sodom were also guilty of a pretty hefty breach of the rules of hospitality.

Hospitality doesn't get written as large today anymore, but nuking the cities would have been done by any god of that time. Zeus would've used lighting instead of fire, though.
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: SpaceProg on March 04, 2012, 07:53:18 pm
Sodom and Gomorrah were generally shitty places populated by nothing but assholes.   Teh Ghey wasn't the issue.
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: MadCatTLX on March 04, 2012, 11:24:37 pm
The people of Sodom & Gomorrah threw a drunken party, surrounded by aoil, alcohol, and torches, and turned their cities into a giant crate.  Obviously, they couldn't ban alcohol, especially in the sanctity of church, so they needed a skapegoat. 

I guess rather than say, "We learned from this to be more responsibile around alcohol, especially if things that can be set on fire are nearby," they went with, "Kill The Gays!"

Makes sense.

I saw something a while back that said Sodom And Gomorrah were destroyed by the debris from a massive asteroid that passed over raining down flaming rocks. The asteroid proceeded over Europe, clip the top off a mountain(in the Alps I think) before air bursting like in Tunguska. Apparently there were people studying the night sky when it happened and they recorded what they saw on a clay disk that was found and allowed scientists to plot where it came from and where it landed, and the path led it over the supposed location of the cities. There were also weird stuff in soil samples at the impact site which was assumed to by related to the impact.

I don't remember the name of the show but I think it was on the National Geographic channel. Does anyone know of other sources for this?(though I haven't looked myself)
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: N. De Plume on March 06, 2012, 09:34:01 pm
Hospitality doesn't get written as large today anymore…
Hospitality should be serious business. It is all part of how we treat each other as human beings.
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: gyeonghwa on March 07, 2012, 07:34:13 pm
Remember, while Leviticus banned gay sex, it also banned a whole assortment of other things. They next time you see an anti-gay protester, see if he has shaven or is wearing polyester. Stone him if he does.
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Podkayne on March 07, 2012, 10:08:40 pm
If you go a step further, everytime they say that stupid, Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, thing, you can point out that if the Adam and Eve model of family is the only acceptible one, they want their own kids to be having sex.
Title: Re: Why isn't the anti-gay crowd promoting incest?
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on March 08, 2012, 07:46:23 pm
If you go a step further, everytime they say that stupid, Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, thing, you can point out that if the Adam and Eve model of family is the only acceptible one, they want their own kids to be having sex.

Many branches of the Religious Right do want people to have as much sex as possible - but 1) only within marriage and 2) for the express purpose of making babies. It's the whole point of the strange and frightening "Quiverfull" movement. ("Be fruitful and multiply")