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Rubbish => Preaching and Worship => Topic started by: Jacob Harrison on July 05, 2018, 05:22:30 pm

Title: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 05, 2018, 05:22:30 pm
I am a big Star Wars nerd and fan of the original films. I still watch the prequels and the new films made by Disney and partially enjoy them but dislike the liberalism and cheesiness in them and that Disney cares more about cash than good storytelling. That and the fact that George Lucas tinkered with the original trilogy films releasing unnecessary revised editions in 1997, 2004, and 2011. The fact that the 2011 Blue Ray Versions of the original trilogy are very different from the original versions, means that there are two parralel Star Wars Universes. And I will explain why the Alpha Star Wars Universe is far superior to the Beta Disney one.

1. The Alpha Star Wars Universe made the Jedi better

In the Alpha Star Wars Universe, the Jedi Order seemed like a much more noble religious order that defended the Old Republic. The Prequels made the Jedi a fucked up cult that took children from their parents, and forbidden having normal attachment to loved ones such as Anakin having normal attachment and fears about his mother as well as later his wife. No wonder Anakin became Darth Vader.

The Prequels also made the Jedi extremely dumb and incompetent because they did not even pursue or investigate who the Sith Master is before it was too late.

And in the sequel trilogy, Luke Skywalker despite overthrowing the Empire, failed his own nephew Ben who along with other students in his New Jedi Order, murdered all the other new  Jedi except for Luke. The Jedi failed again!

2. The Sequels kind of ruin the original trilogy.

The theme in the Original Trilogy was that the Galactic Empire was overthrown, the Jedi returned and lasting peace was brought to the galaxy. The sequels make it so that the Empire has a successor called the First Order which builds a new planet destroying space station that destroys the New Republic, and takes over the Galaxy. So lasting peace was not brought to the galaxy.

3. The Alpha Star Wars Universe promoted more traditional values.

In the Alpha Star Wars Universe, there was more of a moral growth in the characters. In the original version of Star Wars, Han Solo shot first not Greedo, showing that he originated as a smuggling ganster thug who started to change by the end of A New Hope when he helped join in the Battle of Yavin and that he changed his thuggish ways by the end of Return of the Jedi and fully fell in love with Leia and would settle down raise a family with her.

However the sequels make it so that he and Leia only had 1 child, made him a lousy dad who later left Leia and had him still be involved in criminal activity and get murdered by his own son that he neglected to raise well.

4. The prequels were way too pornographic.

Yes the original trilogy showed Princess Leia in that slave outfit but that was to illustrate that Janna the Hutt is a sexual predator. However the prequels showed unnecessary pornographic scenes with Padme and Anakin while they were in a friend zone relationship.

5. The Modern Canon made Darth Vader and the Galactic Empire way to evil.

In Revenge of the Sith, they had Anakin Skywalker murder Jedi children, which is an act so evil that it is irredeemable, making Anakin’s redemption in Return of the Jedi not real redemption.

In the Alpha Star Wars Universe, they did not make Vader and the Empire THAT brutal. In the Original Films they were mainly foccused on crushing the rebels. In fact when my dad watched the films in the theaters, he actually considered the Imperials to be the good guys bringing Law and Order to the Galaxy. He considered the Rebels to be terrorists like the Viet Cong that my grandfather fought against in the Vietnam War and the  Jedi to be bizarre New agers for believing in repressing the natural emotions for Fear,  Anger, and Hate while he considered the Dark Side of the Force to be more natural, and compared Emperor Palpatine to benevolent Emperors such as Ceasar Augustus, Constantine, Justinian, Charlemagne etc.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: ironbite on July 05, 2018, 05:27:00 pm
............................................oh god just go fuck your second cousin.

Ironbite-jesus.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 05, 2018, 06:09:54 pm
You just had to be a toxic Star Wars fanboi didn't you?

Feeeemale Jedi? Childhood rooned! Let me guess, you're a Gamergater and a Sad Puppy too?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Lana Reverse on July 05, 2018, 06:32:26 pm
You just had to be a toxic Star Wars fanboi didn't you?

Feeeemale Jedi? Childhood rooned! Let me guess, you're a Gamergater and a Sad Puppy too?

A lot of this was stupid, but he didn't say anything about female Jedi. Let's not strawman him.

Besides, there have been female Jedi for years, decades even. We can't brush off all criticism of Disney's Star Wars as sexism. Yeah, some of its haters are sexist, but not all of them, or even a majority of them.

That being said, there are a lot of problems with what Jacob had to say. The weird "pornographic" comments alone are facepalm-worthy.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 05, 2018, 06:45:26 pm
You just had to be a toxic Star Wars fanboi didn't you?

Feeeemale Jedi? Childhood rooned! Let me guess, you're a Gamergater and a Sad Puppy too?

A lot of this was stupid, but he didn't say anything about female Jedi. Let's not strawman him.

Besides, there have been female Jedi for years, decades even. We can't brush off all criticism of Disney's Star Wars as sexism. Yeah, some of its haters are sexist, but not all of them, or even a majority of them.

That being said, there are a lot of problems with what Jacob had to say. The weird "pornographic" comments alone are facepalm-worthy.
True, he hasn't said anything about female Jedi-yet. That said, strawmanning is a debating term. I'm not debating this guy, I'm mocking him.

Yo Jacob, direct question. Do you approve of female Jedi in the new SW films The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi? What about the other female action characters in Rouge One and Solo?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 05, 2018, 07:29:21 pm
You just had to be a toxic Star Wars fanboi didn't you?

Feeeemale Jedi? Childhood rooned! Let me guess, you're a Gamergater and a Sad Puppy too?

A lot of this was stupid, but he didn't say anything about female Jedi. Let's not strawman him.

Besides, there have been female Jedi for years, decades even. We can't brush off all criticism of Disney's Star Wars as sexism. Yeah, some of its haters are sexist, but not all of them, or even a majority of them.

That being said, there are a lot of problems with what Jacob had to say. The weird "pornographic" comments alone are facepalm-worthy.

That is because I forgot to type what I was going to say about that.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 05, 2018, 07:45:05 pm
You just had to be a toxic Star Wars fanboi didn't you?

Feeeemale Jedi? Childhood rooned! Let me guess, you're a Gamergater and a Sad Puppy too?

A lot of this was stupid, but he didn't say anything about female Jedi. Let's not strawman him.

Besides, there have been female Jedi for years, decades even. We can't brush off all criticism of Disney's Star Wars as sexism. Yeah, some of its haters are sexist, but not all of them, or even a majority of them.

That being said, there are a lot of problems with what Jacob had to say. The weird "pornographic" comments alone are facepalm-worthy.
True, he hasn't said anything about female Jedi-yet. That said, strawmanning is a debating term. I'm not debating this guy, I'm mocking him.

Yo Jacob, direct question. Do you approve of female Jedi in the new SW films The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi? What about the other female action characters in Rouge One and Solo?

I approve of female Jedi and female action characters. What I disapprove of is the misogyny and mysandry in The Last Jedi. It was mysogynist because it portrayed Rey as being overly compassionate for the bad guy Kylo Ren, made Rose stupidly stop Finn from sacrificing himself destroying the battering ram cannon because of her love for him. It was mysandrist because it portrayed Poe Dameron as the irresponsible guy who blows things up and Leia and Admiral Holdo as being the rational people who need to reprimand him.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 05, 2018, 07:50:00 pm
Now I finished typing what I was going to say about the prequels being pornographic.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: ironbite on July 05, 2018, 08:55:07 pm
Now finish typing about how hot your second cousin is and your desire to fuck her.

Ironbite-include all the details about how she looks please.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 05, 2018, 08:59:38 pm
Two generally sympathetic characters make bad calls and it's an indictment on two entire genders!

What?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 05, 2018, 09:17:46 pm
Two generally sympathetic characters make bad calls and it's an indictment on two entire genders!

What?

Rose’s decision was not just a bad call, she deliberately prevented Finn from doing a self sacrifice to save the resistance. It portrays women as having their emotions for others get in the way of doing what is practical. Poe Dameron likewise did not just make bad calls. He  tried seizing control over Admiral Holdo’s authority. It portrays men as being irresponsible disobedient rebellious renegades. He should have been reprimanded by BOTH women and men in command.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Lana Reverse on July 05, 2018, 09:35:25 pm
Yeah, I have some problems with the Sequel Trilogy in general and TLJ in particular, but you're just being ridiculous. Let me just address the obvious stupidity first.

-Why are you conflating the prequels and the special editions with Disney's take on the franchise? And what's with the stuff about "Alpha" and "Beta" universes?
-How was Leia's slave outfit "pornographic"? It's not like she had a wardrobe malfunction. For that matter, what about the prequels? Honestly, you sound like a Victorian. And I don't think you know what "friend zone" means.
-Like Tol said, I think you're blowing things way out of proportion in regards to the supposed sexism.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 05, 2018, 09:43:21 pm
Yeah, I have some problems with the Sequel Trilogy in general and TLJ in particular, but you're just being ridiculous. Let me just address the obvious stupidity first.

-Why are you conflating the prequels and the special editions with Disney's take on the franchise? And what's with the stuff about "Alpha" and "Beta" universes?
-How was Leia's slave outfit "pornographic"? It's not like she had a wardrobe malfunction. For that matter, what about the prequels? Honestly, you sound like a Victorian. And I don't think you know what "friend zone" means.
-Like Tol said, I think you're blowing things way out of proportion in regards to the supposed sexism.

-Because they are all part of the current Cannon. I call it the Beta Canon because it is not the original canon from the 1980s.
-That was a typo. That scene was not pornographic. Attack of the Clones was because it showed exessive unnecessary irrelevant scenes of Padme dressing overly sexual, Anakin being a creep, and them frolicking.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 05, 2018, 09:52:15 pm
Ok: Troll mode OFF. Debate mode ON.

But if you give me an inadvertant attack of the giggles by being ridiculous all bets are off!

Both men and women tend to view those they care about with rose coloured glasses, which can disguise those pesky red flags. That's not a "woman" problem it's a "human" problem.

Also, both men and women can act impulsively and irrationally in life or death situations. Again, that's a human problem.

The majority of women and men in that movie don't make the same mistakes. It's two quirks from two different people who have character flaws, which keeps them interesting IMO.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 05, 2018, 10:03:36 pm
Ok: Troll mode OFF. Debate mode ON.

But if you give me an inadvertant attack of the giggles by being ridiculous all bets are off!

Both men and women tend to view those they care about with rose coloured glasses, which can disguise those pesky red flags. That's not a "woman" problem it's a "human" problem.

Also, both men and women can act impulsively and irrationally in life or death situations. Again, that's a human problem.

The majority of women and men in that movie don't make the same mistakes. It's two quirks from two different people who have character flaws, which keeps them interesting IMO.

Fair point on the Rose and Finn Scene. However in the Poe scene, women were over represented  the amount of people that reprimanded Poe Dameron. Why couldn’t there be a man commander along with Leia who reprimanded him?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 05, 2018, 10:22:58 pm
But we know the Empire has female commanding officers and Poe is originally an Imperial soldier. The gender of his CO shouldn't be a factor when it comes to following orders!
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 05, 2018, 10:37:15 pm
But we know the Empire has female commanding officers and Poe is originally an Imperial soldier. The gender of his CO shouldn't be a factor when it comes to following orders!

Your confusing Poe with Finn.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 05, 2018, 10:40:38 pm
Ok, fair enough. Why would have hearing that from a male officer have made a difference in Poes case?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 05, 2018, 10:43:23 pm
Ok, fair enough. Why would have hearing that from a male officer have made a difference in Poes case?

Because he not reprimanded only by women, not by women and men.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 05, 2018, 10:46:32 pm
Ok, fair enough. Why would have hearing that from a male officer have made a difference in Poes case?

Because he not reprimanded only by women, not by women and men.
So? He's reprimanded by superior officers for disobeying orders that ultimately led to the loss of lives and essential materials. What difference does the gender of the officers make?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Svata on July 06, 2018, 01:50:53 am
Are... Are you real? You're everything bad about white guys from the internet (except Nazism, so far) rolled up into one stupid little ball of hate.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: davedan on July 06, 2018, 04:19:22 am
no he's not real. Also while not pretending to be an actual nazi he does promote anglocentric culture, which apparently doesn't matter about race so long as you are an anglophone with particular values
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: niam2023 on July 06, 2018, 05:10:59 am
I am reminded of the Saxon Foundation - white supremacist group with a bent toward Anglocentricism.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Askold on July 06, 2018, 05:32:08 am
I wish to point out that, yes the parallels between the rebels and Viet Cong were there intentionally. But it doesn't make them the bad guys. Note that the Empire blows up Alderaan, killing all of their civilian population right in the first film. That is canon in all the versions. I don't know how the Empire-did-nothing-wrong folks all seem to consider that to be OK. Also the Emperor disbanded the democratic senate and replaced it with his hand picked lackeys. That is tyranny, not law and order.

The Empire has always been a bunch of cartoon villains who are just a step away from kicking puppies while twirling their moustache.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 06, 2018, 09:27:13 am
Ok, fair enough. Why would have hearing that from a male officer have made a difference in Poes case?

Because he not reprimanded only by women, not by women and men.
So? He's reprimanded by superior officers for disobeying orders that ultimately led to the loss of lives and essential materials. What difference does the gender of the officers make?

It was done intentionally to portray a message that women are more responsible, calculated, and cautious.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 06, 2018, 10:06:27 am
I wish to point out that, yes the parallels between the rebels and Viet Cong were there intentionally. But it doesn't make them the bad guys. Note that the Empire blows up Alderaan, killing all of their civilian population right in the first film. That is canon in all the versions. I don't know how the Empire-did-nothing-wrong folks all seem to consider that to be OK. Also the Emperor disbanded the democratic senate and replaced it with his hand picked lackeys. That is tyranny, not law and order.

The Empire has always been a bunch of cartoon villains who are just a step away from kicking puppies while twirling their moustache.

Well, arguments have been made that since Alderaan was one of the top rebel planets, it was a legit military target and was done to put an end to a war that would have cost more lives than the people of Alderaan. The Senate was disbanded because there were many Senators supporting the rebellion.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 06, 2018, 11:13:37 am
Ok, fair enough. Why would have hearing that from a male officer have made a difference in Poes case?

Because he not reprimanded only by women, not by women and men.
So? He's reprimanded by superior officers for disobeying orders that ultimately led to the loss of lives and essential materials. What difference does the gender of the officers make?

It was done intentionally to portray a message that women are more responsible, calculated, and cautious.
In the original trilogy Princess Leia was more responsible, calculated and cautious than either Luke or Han. Is that "misandrist" too?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Lana Reverse on July 06, 2018, 11:23:51 am
Did...

Did you just try to whitewash the destruction of Alderaan as Hard Men Making Hard DecisionsTM? You are one sick little puppy, you know that?

And you're acting a lot like an SJW right now. But then again, you have so little self-awareness you're probably invisible to Zen Buddhists, so it's not surprising you haven't noticed the irony.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 06, 2018, 11:28:35 am
Maybe he secretly admires Grand Moff Tarkin, y'know. British, upper class, arrogant, genocidal. I can definitely see it.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: ironbite on July 06, 2018, 11:40:43 am
I wish to point out that, yes the parallels between the rebels and Viet Cong were there intentionally. But it doesn't make them the bad guys. Note that the Empire blows up Alderaan, killing all of their civilian population right in the first film. That is canon in all the versions. I don't know how the Empire-did-nothing-wrong folks all seem to consider that to be OK. Also the Emperor disbanded the democratic senate and replaced it with his hand picked lackeys. That is tyranny, not law and order.

The Empire has always been a bunch of cartoon villains who are just a step away from kicking puppies while twirling their moustache.

Well, arguments have been made that since Alderaan was one of the top rebel planets, it was a legit military target and was done to put an end to a war that would have cost more lives than the people of Alderaan. The Senate was disbanded because there were many Senators supporting the rebellion.

Wow.  So how does your attraction to your second cousin add into this?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 06, 2018, 02:57:28 pm
Ok, fair enough. Why would have hearing that from a male officer have made a difference in Poes case?

Because he not reprimanded only by women, not by women and men.
So? He's reprimanded by superior officers for disobeying orders that ultimately led to the loss of lives and essential materials. What difference does the gender of the officers make?

It was done intentionally to portray a message that women are more responsible, calculated, and cautious.
In the original trilogy Princess Leia was more responsible, calculated and cautious than either Luke or Han. Is that "misandrist" too?

No because Han was a smuggler not a trained rebel fighter, and Luke was just beginning to experience the greater galaxy. Leia had more experience being trained by her father and the Rebels in how to defend herself.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 06, 2018, 02:59:15 pm
Did...

Did you just try to whitewash the destruction of Alderaan as Hard Men Making Hard DecisionsTM? You are one sick little puppy, you know that?

And you're acting a lot like an SJW right now. But then again, you have so little self-awareness you're probably invisible to Zen Buddhists, so it's not surprising you haven't noticed the irony.

Think of it as similar to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: niam2023 on July 06, 2018, 03:22:13 pm
Uh Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities - this is blowing up a whole planet. I guess your ugliness goes inside as well as outside, piggy.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 06, 2018, 03:32:00 pm
Uh Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities - this is blowing up a whole planet. I guess your ugliness goes inside as well as outside, piggy.

But when putting it to scale, it was a Galactic Wide war that cost trillions of lives, so on the scale of a galaxy, a planet is like a city.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: ironbite on July 06, 2018, 04:42:57 pm
With that hole you dug you're gonna need a whole mess of second cousins to fuck your way out of it.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Skybison on July 06, 2018, 07:16:59 pm
Why didn't the empire just use the death star on an uninhabited planet first, thus demonstrating what their weapon could do without and frightening everyone into obedience without killing billions of people?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Lana Reverse on July 06, 2018, 07:26:11 pm
And why didn't they demand the Rebel Alliance surrender before killing millions of people?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 06, 2018, 08:13:18 pm
Why didn't the empire just use the death star on an uninhabited planet first, thus demonstrating what their weapon could do without and frightening everyone into obedience without killing billions of people?

Well the Empire did not know where the stolen Death Star plans were and were aware of the possibility that the Rebels might of had access to them, so knowing that they were not invulnerable, they couldn’t just freighten the Rebel alliance into surrendering just yet, they still had to focus on military targets. 
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Eiki-mun on July 06, 2018, 08:14:07 pm
Think of it as similar to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

One problem with your comparison. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were done as a last ditch effort to shock the Japanese into surrender so that the United States wouldn't have to fight a costly island war with millions of potential casualties - as well as to make sure the war finished before Russia moved in in force and started annexing things (like Hokkaido). Multiple offers of surrender were sent and even the people who ordered the attacks were mentally scarred by them. They were horrified at what they had done, but they felt it necessary.

In contrast, the Empire fired the Death Star on Alderaan just... to test it. It wasn't their Hiroshima, it was their Manhattan Project. It was hardly a last-ditch effort to do anything, especially since Alderaan wasn't particularly threatening the Galactic Empire. The people who ordered the attack weren't even affected, because, let's be honest, they're cartoon villains. The destruction of Alderaan was hardly necessary to anything, they just did it because they could and because they didn't care about sentient life. The fact that you empathize with the cartoon villains and not with the Rebel Alliance says quite a lot about you, to be honest.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 06, 2018, 08:17:47 pm
Think of it as similar to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

One problem with your comparison. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were done as a last ditch effort to shock the Japanese into surrender so that the United States wouldn't have to fight a costly island war with millions of potential casualties - as well as to make sure the war finished before Russia moved in in force and started annexing things (like Hokkaido). Multiple offers of surrender were sent and even the people who ordered the attacks were mentally scarred by them. They were horrified at what they had done, but they felt it necessary.

In contrast, the Empire fired the Death Star on Alderaan just... to test it. It wasn't their Hiroshima, it was their Manhattan Project. It was hardly a last-ditch effort to do anything, especially since Alderaan wasn't particularly threatening the Galactic Empire. The people who ordered the attack weren't even affected, because, let's be honest, they're cartoon villains. The destruction of Alderaan was hardly necessary to anything, they just did it because they could and because they didn't care about sentient life. The fact that you empathize with the cartoon villains and not with the Rebel Alliance says quite a lot about you, to be honest.

I explained in the above comment why it was a last ditch effort for the Empire.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 06, 2018, 08:25:41 pm
Ok, fair enough. Why would have hearing that from a male officer have made a difference in Poes case?

Because he not reprimanded only by women, not by women and men.
So? He's reprimanded by superior officers for disobeying orders that ultimately led to the loss of lives and essential materials. What difference does the gender of the officers make?

It was done intentionally to portray a message that women are more responsible, calculated, and cautious.
In the original trilogy Princess Leia was more responsible, calculated and cautious than either Luke or Han. Is that "misandrist" too?

No because Han was a smuggler not a trained rebel fighter, and Luke was just beginning to experience the greater galaxy. Leia had more experience being trained by her father and the Rebels in how to defend herself.
Uh that's one movie out of a trilogy.

Also this is getting real specific in a really weird way. If you're a long standing, male member (sorry) of the Rebel Alliance then it's misandrist for more than one woman at one time to tell you that you're being a dumbass even if you totally are?

But wide-eyed hayseeds and petty crims can be told they're dumbasses by the lady rebels all the time even when they do downright heroic shit. No problemo.

Your reasoning is...unclear.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 06, 2018, 08:52:49 pm
Ok, fair enough. Why would have hearing that from a male officer have made a difference in Poes case?

Because he not reprimanded only by women, not by women and men.
So? He's reprimanded by superior officers for disobeying orders that ultimately led to the loss of lives and essential materials. What difference does the gender of the officers make?

It was done intentionally to portray a message that women are more responsible, calculated, and cautious.
In the original trilogy Princess Leia was more responsible, calculated and cautious than either Luke or Han. Is that "misandrist" too?

No because Han was a smuggler not a trained rebel fighter, and Luke was just beginning to experience the greater galaxy. Leia had more experience being trained by her father and the Rebels in how to defend herself.
Uh that's one movie out of a trilogy.

Also this is getting real specific in a really weird way. If you're a long standing, male member (sorry) of the Rebel Alliance then it's misandrist for more than one woman at one time to tell you that you're being a dumbass even if you totally are?

But wide-eyed hayseeds and petty crims can be told they're dumbasses by the lady rebels all the time even when they do downright heroic shit. No problemo.

Your reasoning is...unclear.

Yes, because in the former there wasn’t gender diversity in the command. Why couldn’t it have been Leia and Admiral Ackbar being the ones reprimanding them instead of Leia and Holdo?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 06, 2018, 09:01:35 pm
Why should it? The guy just did something which could get you summarily executed in other militaries and guerilla organisations and you want to get a male officer on board just to salve the irresponsible parties ego? He screwed up, he doesn't get to choose the bloody gender of the people who have to call him to account for it!
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 06, 2018, 09:09:36 pm
Why should it? The guy just did something which could get you summarily executed in other militaries and guerilla organisations and you want to get a male officer on board just to salve the irresponsible parties ego? He screwed up, he doesn't get to choose the bloody gender of the people who have to call him to account for it!

It wouldn’t save his ego. Being reprimanded by men would have an equal effect. What matters is the message the movie is portraying.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: niam2023 on July 06, 2018, 09:14:49 pm
What? That women can and do call stupid moves out when they're done by guys with no "reverence" for their "role"?

Good! The fewer traditionalist norms and such that exist the better.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 06, 2018, 09:16:06 pm
That men should be treated like adults, whether by men or women? That's not misandry, it's the opposite. Poe was treated like a person who made a bad decision, not some helpless oaf and the mercy of his instincts and other people called him to account for it.

Misandry would be to let it go and say boys will be boys, the silly little runts can't help themselves!
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 06, 2018, 09:21:51 pm
That men should be treated like adults, whether by men or women? That's not misandry, it's the opposite. Poe was treated like a person who made a bad decision, not some helpless oaf and the mercy of his instincts and other people called him to account for it.

Misandry would be to let it go and say boys will be boys, the silly little runts can't help themselves!

That is not the full message. The message that they were trying to portray is that men are irresponsible instinctive, destructive individuals, and that women are more responsible and calculated and you need them to reprimand the men.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 06, 2018, 09:30:33 pm
Not the case, Poe was always more of an adult than either Luke or Han in the original series. As has been noted, Solo is a petty criminal in debt to dangerous people and Luke's world was the fenceline in his foster parents farm. Poe's a lifelong Rebel and the former head of Rapier squadron, he knows how things are supposed to work in the Rebel Alliance almost as well as Princess Leia. Despite his training and familiarity with Rebel Alliance convention he disobeys a direct order to undertake a risky attack on a First Order warship in violation of direct orders. As a result he's merely demoted instead of spaced or blasted, taking into account his prior record of service.

Poe, in stark contrast to both Luke and Han in the original series is presented as a smart, capable, principled warrior who made a dumb decision and got people killed. The message couldn't be more conservative. In wartime respect the chain of command or there will be consequences.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 06, 2018, 09:49:34 pm
Not the case, Poe was always more of an adult than either Luke or Han in the original series. As has been noted, Solo is a petty criminal in debt to dangerous people and Luke's world was the fenceline in his foster parents farm. He's a lifelong Rebel and the former head of Rapier squadron, he knows how things are supposed to work in the Rebel Alliance almost as well as Princess Leia. Despite his training and familiarity with Rebel Alliance convention he disobeys a direct order to undertake a risky attack on a First Order warship. As a result he's merely demoted instead of spaced or blasted, taking into account his prior record of service.

Poe, in stark contrast to both Luke and Han in the original series is presented as a smart, capable, principled warrior who made a dumb decision and got people killed. The message couldn't be more conservative. In wartime respect the chain of command or there will be consequences.

Right so it is more misandrist because it makes it seem like trained principled warrior men are disobedient and reckless
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 06, 2018, 10:23:55 pm
Not the case, Poe was always more of an adult than either Luke or Han in the original series. As has been noted, Solo is a petty criminal in debt to dangerous people and Luke's world was the fenceline in his foster parents farm. He's a lifelong Rebel and the former head of Rapier squadron, he knows how things are supposed to work in the Rebel Alliance almost as well as Princess Leia. Despite his training and familiarity with Rebel Alliance convention he disobeys a direct order to undertake a risky attack on a First Order warship. As a result he's merely demoted instead of spaced or blasted, taking into account his prior record of service.

Poe, in stark contrast to both Luke and Han in the original series is presented as a smart, capable, principled warrior who made a dumb decision and got people killed. The message couldn't be more conservative. In wartime respect the chain of command or there will be consequences.

Right so it is more misandrist because it makes it seem like trained principled warrior men are disobedient and reckless
Nope, one man makes a dumb call and is called dumb for it. Ok, it was done by women. Frankly that shouldn't bug him as much as the women and men he got killed.

There's not a pattern here Jacob, well there is, but not in the way you think there is. In the SW universe there are a lot of heroes snubbing their superiors but saving the galaxy anyway so it was worth the risk. In Jedi Luke snubs Yoda and Obi Wan and nearly gets himself killed but it's worth it in the long run. In Rouge One Jyn Erso does get herself killed disobeying her superiors but it's worth it in the long run. Poe snubs his superiors and his risk doesn't pay off-it backfires spectacularly, get's his comrades killed but survives to live with the guilt. Very clever trope subversion.

It's why it's called a "risk," it's risky.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: dpareja on July 06, 2018, 10:26:11 pm
You realize that if you follow the "traditional" canon you eventually get to a point where Leia is physically stronger (as in, actually physically stronger, not "use the Force to enhance my strength" stronger) than Han, right?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 07, 2018, 09:21:46 am
Not the case, Poe was always more of an adult than either Luke or Han in the original series. As has been noted, Solo is a petty criminal in debt to dangerous people and Luke's world was the fenceline in his foster parents farm. He's a lifelong Rebel and the former head of Rapier squadron, he knows how things are supposed to work in the Rebel Alliance almost as well as Princess Leia. Despite his training and familiarity with Rebel Alliance convention he disobeys a direct order to undertake a risky attack on a First Order warship. As a result he's merely demoted instead of spaced or blasted, taking into account his prior record of service.

Poe, in stark contrast to both Luke and Han in the original series is presented as a smart, capable, principled warrior who made a dumb decision and got people killed. The message couldn't be more conservative. In wartime respect the chain of command or there will be consequences.

Right so it is more misandrist because it makes it seem like trained principled warrior men are disobedient and reckless
Nope, one man makes a dumb call and is called dumb for it. Ok, it was done by women. Frankly that shouldn't bug him as much as the women and men he got killed.

There's not a pattern here Jacob, well there is, but not in the way you think there is. In the SW universe there are a lot of heroes snubbing their superiors but saving the galaxy anyway so it was worth the risk. In Jedi Luke snubs Yoda and Obi Wan and nearly gets himself killed but it's worth it in the long run. In Rouge One Jyn Erso does get herself killed disobeying her superiors but it's worth it in the long run. Poe snubs his superiors and his risk doesn't pay off-it backfires spectacularly, get's his comrades killed but survives to live with the guilt. Very clever trope subversion.

It's why it's called a "risk," it's risky.

As I said before, Disney intentionally made Admiral Holdo be in command to spread the message that you specifically need women to reprimand men who act reckless. They also made Rey a Mary Sue character who is extremely powerful in the force despite not having training like Luke did. It spreads the message that women are more naturally gifted and don’t need to grow as a character.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Art Vandelay on July 07, 2018, 09:50:57 am
You know, if you really hate Star Wars this badly, you could always, oh I don't know, watch something else, perhaps? None of it is actually real, it's just entertainment. If it offends you this much, there is zero reason for you to pay the slightest bit of attention to it. Go find something that doesn't feature a fictional world that differs from your ideals, and enjoy that instead. I suspect you'll be a lot happier as a result.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 07, 2018, 09:05:29 pm
Not the case, Poe was always more of an adult than either Luke or Han in the original series. As has been noted, Solo is a petty criminal in debt to dangerous people and Luke's world was the fenceline in his foster parents farm. He's a lifelong Rebel and the former head of Rapier squadron, he knows how things are supposed to work in the Rebel Alliance almost as well as Princess Leia. Despite his training and familiarity with Rebel Alliance convention he disobeys a direct order to undertake a risky attack on a First Order warship. As a result he's merely demoted instead of spaced or blasted, taking into account his prior record of service.

Poe, in stark contrast to both Luke and Han in the original series is presented as a smart, capable, principled warrior who made a dumb decision and got people killed. The message couldn't be more conservative. In wartime respect the chain of command or there will be consequences.

Right so it is more misandrist because it makes it seem like trained principled warrior men are disobedient and reckless
Nope, one man makes a dumb call and is called dumb for it. Ok, it was done by women. Frankly that shouldn't bug him as much as the women and men he got killed.

There's not a pattern here Jacob, well there is, but not in the way you think there is. In the SW universe there are a lot of heroes snubbing their superiors but saving the galaxy anyway so it was worth the risk. In Jedi Luke snubs Yoda and Obi Wan and nearly gets himself killed but it's worth it in the long run. In Rouge One Jyn Erso does get herself killed disobeying her superiors but it's worth it in the long run. Poe snubs his superiors and his risk doesn't pay off-it backfires spectacularly, get's his comrades killed but survives to live with the guilt. Very clever trope subversion.

It's why it's called a "risk," it's risky.

As I said before, Disney intentionally made Admiral Holdo be in command to spread the message that you specifically need women to reprimand men who act reckless. They also made Rey a Mary Sue character who is extremely powerful in the force despite not having training like Luke did. It spreads the message that women are more naturally gifted and don’t need to grow as a character.
I certainly think the directors of the new SW films had an agenda in their script and casting choices but I don't think it was "misandry," I think it was this:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhZMrpVXkAENczj.jpg)

So yeah, what Art said!
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Skybison on July 08, 2018, 05:06:53 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0KI-jyJlj8
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Askold on July 09, 2018, 02:05:02 pm
That reminds me, someone joked that Kylo Ren disappoints three separate father figures in a row and each time reacts by trying to kill them (depending on how you count he either succeeds twice or on all three occasions.)
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: ironbite on July 09, 2018, 04:06:35 pm
Ok so Han and Luke who's the third?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Lana Reverse on July 09, 2018, 04:58:40 pm
Ok so Han and Luke who's the third?

Pretty sure it's Snoke.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Askold on July 09, 2018, 05:07:45 pm
Yeah, it is arguable whether Kylo should get the credit for Luke but he does die right after their fight presumably due to the exhaustion from using his powers like that.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 09, 2018, 06:04:37 pm
I thought the point of Luke's trick was to show that Obi Wan's disappearance was also a kind of force, suicide hologram which raises a lot of weird questions, where was Obi Wan when he faced off Vader if he pulled the same stunt and why didn't he disappear with his clothes? How do you put clothes on a hologram anyway? Does Star Wars have a slave economy similar to the Old South or the Roman Empire? Is it human-supremacist? Where the heck did these humans come from?

Who would win in a battle between a Star Destroyer and the Enterprise?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: ironbite on July 09, 2018, 06:21:31 pm
Oh please.  Enterprise, despite not being a warship, completely outclasses a Star Destroyer in every single category.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 09, 2018, 06:30:27 pm
Oh please.  Enterprise, despite not being a warship, completely outclasses a Star Destroyer in every single category.
But, do Balrogs have wings?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: ironbite on July 09, 2018, 06:49:59 pm
*eyes you*
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Skybison on July 09, 2018, 06:55:28 pm
The Balrog has wings but is flightless.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Askold on July 10, 2018, 01:23:30 am
Kenobi and Vader crossed blades though. Unless Kenobi was able to materialize his sword with his force-hologram that would mean that he really was there.

And Luke, Kenobi and Yoda all disappeared in their death leaving behind (some of) their clothes only.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Skybison on July 10, 2018, 01:37:50 am
Since their clothes were left behind, why weren't the ghosts naked?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Svata on July 10, 2018, 01:58:53 am
2 reasons. 1. Kid's movie. 2. It's the Force. They choose how they look.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Askold on July 10, 2018, 02:28:55 am
Anything is possible if your bacteria/Midichloridian infection is severe enough.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 10, 2018, 06:16:59 am
Since their clothes were left behind, why weren't the ghosts naked?
Because if Sir Alec Guinness and an elderly gremlin were naked it'd be a horror movie or really, really specific porn.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 10, 2018, 08:46:30 am
I thought the point of Luke's trick was to show that Obi Wan's disappearance was also a kind of force, suicide hologram which raises a lot of weird questions, where was Obi Wan when he faced off Vader if he pulled the same stunt and why didn't he disappear with his clothes? How do you put clothes on a hologram anyway? Does Star Wars have a slave economy similar to the Old South or the Roman Empire? Is it human-supremacist? Where the heck did these humans come from?

Who would win in a battle between a Star Destroyer and the Enterprise?

Well in the animations that I was planning on making before I discovered that it was the Yorkists, not the Lancasterians that were the true heirs to the throne of England, I had there be advanced time traveling aliens that create simulated realities that they enter for fun, including simulated realities based on works of fiction. There was going to be a connection with a simulated multiverse that had two parallel Star Wars universes(the original 1980s canon, and the Disney Canon) as well as the Nintendo Universes and it was connected to the simulated data of King Bowser being inserted by the Knights Templar into Henry Robert Fitz Roy Somerset so that he would be motivated to conquer England, Ireland and France.

But now I realize that this Australian aristocrat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Abney-Hastings,_15th_Earl_of_Loudoun is the rightful heir to the crown of England, the Lordship of Ireland, and France as he is the true heir to the House of York according to the documentary Britain’s real monarch. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7DCasz6oeL4
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 10, 2018, 10:04:54 am
You're too late, pommyland is already run by an Aussie toff-his name's Rupert Murdoch! As for that other bloke, why the fuck would he want to leave somewhere sunny for where Britain is headed after May and Co. drive Britain off the Brexit cliff?

In any.case, aren't you here to root for Grand Moff Tarkin? In Australian that means with your cuz, in skin-tight Faberges.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: dpareja on July 10, 2018, 11:56:44 am
The "rightful heir" to those crowns is whoever, if anyone, the legislatures say is the "rightful heir".

So there is no "rightful heir" to the crowns/lordships of Ireland and France (except to the extent that Northern Ireland is unified with Britain) because those crowns no longer exist, and as for England, technically that crown no longer exists, having been unified with the crown of Scotland by the Acts of Union 1707 to create the crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain (later Great Britain and Ireland, later Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and then also the crowns of the Commonwealth realms, which has varied through the years but currently sits at 16, including the United Kingdom), and succession to that crown is determined by the Act of Settlement 1701 and Succession to the Crown Act 2013 (repealing the Royal Marriages Act 1772).

The only thing left, really, is to change the succession of British peerages to absolute primogeniture.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 10, 2018, 03:25:30 pm
You're too late, pommyland is already run by an Aussie toff-his name's Rupert Murdoch! As for that other bloke, why the fuck would he want to leave somewhere sunny for where Britain is headed after May and Co. drive Britain off the Brexit cliff?

In any.case, aren't you here to root for Grand Moff Tarkin? In Australian that means with your cuz, in skin-tight Faberges.at

Your right. He probably wouldn’t. That is why I need you to found an organization that can kidnap him. Force him to get married and if he refuses sex with her, force him to masturbate so that his semen can be put in his wife without it having to be rape so that he can produce heirs that can be raised by the organization. Have members of the organization  emigrate to the UK and run in political offices. Have them join both political parties, to infiltrate parliament but to keep the plan a secret. Then once they get elected, they can pass a law making his eldest son King, and to give Scotland independence since the King is the heir to the throne of England not Scotland. Then England with it’s powerful army can invade Ireland and France.

In exchange for doing it, since you earlier complained about the Queen’s Governor General interfering in Australian politics, England will allow Australia to become a Republic since the legitimate heirs to the English throne never ruled Australia.

How does that sound?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 10, 2018, 03:31:55 pm
The "rightful heir" to those crowns is whoever, if anyone, the legislatures say is the "rightful heir".

So there is no "rightful heir" to the crowns/lordships of Ireland and France (except to the extent that Northern Ireland is unified with Britain) because those crowns no longer exist, and as for England, technically that crown no longer exists, having been unified with the crown of Scotland by the Acts of Union 1707 to create the crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain (later Great Britain and Ireland, later Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and then also the crowns of the Commonwealth realms, which has varied through the years but currently sits at 16, including the United Kingdom), and succession to that crown is determined by the Act of Settlement 1701 and Succession to the Crown Act 2013 (repealing the Royal Marriages Act 1772).

The only thing left, really, is to change the succession of British peerages to absolute primogeniture.

But those acts were done under illegitimate criminal governments. Since I realize now that the Yorkists has a more legitimate claim to the throne, yet Edward IV was probably illegitimate according to that documentary, it means that England has had an illegitimate criminal government ever since the Lancasterian heir Henry IV overthrew Richard II in 1399, because power was seized by committing the criminal act of treason.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Askold on July 10, 2018, 03:42:36 pm
Why would the descendants of Yorkists have more right to the throne than the people their ancestors stole the lands from?

Also, if you are going to go back to Romans and declaring them the legal owners of Britain you are going to get a bit of a problem. You see the last remaining "legal" rulership that remained of the Roman empire was the government of Duchy of Finland. After Tsar was deposed in Russia Finland became de-facto the last remaining bastion of Rome but the government of Finland was also deposed and replaced in the civil war and because the winning side made their own government rather than giving power to the elected government of Finland from year earlier when it was still an autonomous part of Russia this was also an illegal change of rulership.

AND because the last remaining bastion of Rome was democratic there is no one to inherit the "legitimate" position of ruler of Rome as the leadership changed hands through elections rather than by inheriting the position.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 10, 2018, 05:24:53 pm
Why would the descendants of Yorkists have more right to the throne than the people their ancestors stole the lands from?

Also, if you are going to go back to Romans and declaring them the legal owners of Britain you are going to get a bit of a problem. You see the last remaining "legal" rulership that remained of the Roman empire was the government of Duchy of Finland. After Tsar was deposed in Russia Finland became de-facto the last remaining bastion of Rome but the government of Finland was also deposed and replaced in the civil war and because the winning side made their own government rather than giving power to the elected government of Finland from year earlier when it was still an autonomous part of Russia this was also an illegal change of rulership.

AND because the last remaining bastion of Rome was democratic there is no one to inherit the "legitimate" position of ruler of Rome as the leadership changed hands through elections rather than by inheriting the position.

Because after the sack of Rome, the Western Roman Empire(since the Roman Empire was divided into two after Theodosius’s death) was gone with nobody left to inherit the land. Western Europe was taken over by barbarian tribes and then tribes later united to form Kingdoms such as England in 927 after Æthelstan liberated England from the Danes uniting the Anglo Saxons. The Yorkists were descended from him.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Lana Reverse on July 10, 2018, 05:55:12 pm
You're too late, pommyland is already run by an Aussie toff-his name's Rupert Murdoch! As for that other bloke, why the fuck would he want to leave somewhere sunny for where Britain is headed after May and Co. drive Britain off the Brexit cliff?

In any.case, aren't you here to root for Grand Moff Tarkin? In Australian that means with your cuz, in skin-tight Faberges.at

Your right. He probably wouldn’t. That is why I need you to found an organization that can kidnap him. Force him to get married and if he refuses sex with her, force him to masturbate so that his semen can be put in his wife without it having to be rape so that he can produce heirs that can be raised by the organization. Have members of the organization  emigrate to the UK and run in political offices. Have them join both political parties, to infiltrate parliament but to keep the plan a secret. Then once they get elected, they can pass a law making his eldest son King, and to give Scotland independence since the King is the heir to the throne of England not Scotland. Then England with it’s powerful army can invade Ireland and France.

In exchange for doing it, since you earlier complained about the Queen’s Governor General interfering in Australian politics, England will allow Australia to become a Republic since the legitimate heirs to the English throne never ruled Australia.

How does that sound?

>forcing a man to masturbate
>not rape

Say what?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 10, 2018, 07:11:28 pm
You're too late, pommyland is already run by an Aussie toff-his name's Rupert Murdoch! As for that other bloke, why the fuck would he want to leave somewhere sunny for where Britain is headed after May and Co. drive Britain off the Brexit cliff?

In any.case, aren't you here to root for Grand Moff Tarkin? In Australian that means with your cuz, in skin-tight Faberges.at

Your right. He probably wouldn’t. That is why I need you to found an organization that can kidnap him. Force him to get married and if he refuses sex with her, force him to masturbate so that his semen can be put in his wife without it having to be rape so that he can produce heirs that can be raised by the organization. Have members of the organization  emigrate to the UK and run in political offices. Have them join both political parties, to infiltrate parliament but to keep the plan a secret. Then once they get elected, they can pass a law making his eldest son King, and to give Scotland independence since the King is the heir to the throne of England not Scotland. Then England with it’s powerful army can invade Ireland and France.

In exchange for doing it, since you earlier complained about the Queen’s Governor General interfering in Australian politics, England will allow Australia to become a Republic since the legitimate heirs to the English throne never ruled Australia.

How does that sound?
Your plan to save the British is to kidnap an Aussie with a funny surname and some poor English lass take them both to a dungeon in England. Force him to fap at gunpoint and then rape the woman with a turkey baster? And think I'm going to help you?

After that you want to invade most of western Europe, because of course you do! And you think all this will give you legitimacy with the British public? You are completely and irretrievably deranged!

And yeah I'd rather keep the old bats face on our coinage. I think you just found a way to make Australian monarchists tolerable!
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 10, 2018, 08:20:30 pm
You're too late, pommyland is already run by an Aussie toff-his name's Rupert Murdoch! As for that other bloke, why the fuck would he want to leave somewhere sunny for where Britain is headed after May and Co. drive Britain off the Brexit cliff?

In any.case, aren't you here to root for Grand Moff Tarkin? In Australian that means with your cuz, in skin-tight Faberges.at

Your right. He probably wouldn’t. That is why I need you to found an organization that can kidnap him. Force him to get married and if he refuses sex with her, force him to masturbate so that his semen can be put in his wife without it having to be rape so that he can produce heirs that can be raised by the organization. Have members of the organization  emigrate to the UK and run in political offices. Have them join both political parties, to infiltrate parliament but to keep the plan a secret. Then once they get elected, they can pass a law making his eldest son King, and to give Scotland independence since the King is the heir to the throne of England not Scotland. Then England with it’s powerful army can invade Ireland and France.

In exchange for doing it, since you earlier complained about the Queen’s Governor General interfering in Australian politics, England will allow Australia to become a Republic since the legitimate heirs to the English throne never ruled Australia.

How does that sound?
Your plan to save the British is to kidnap an Aussie with a funny surname and some poor English lass take them both to a dungeon in England. Force him to fap at gunpoint and then rape the woman with a turkey baster? And think I'm going to help you?

After that you want to invade most of western Europe, because of course you do! And you think all this will give you legitimacy with the British public? You are completely and irretrievably deranged!

And yeah I'd rather keep the old bats face on our coinage. I think you just found a way to make Australian monarchists tolerable!

Well actually you can have the forced masterbation done in Australia. The woman involved will consent to marrying the man. And the British will  not know about the plan until the son of Simon Hastings is made King because as I said, the members of the organization will immigrate to Britain and gradually infiltrate parliament, not telling the British about the plan.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 10, 2018, 08:41:49 pm
Please remember your plan hinges on a cranky old socialist, atheist educator who loathes the very notion of royalty forming Kingsmen, on a teacher's wage, tooling up and enacting mission impossible in order to restore absolute monarchy and old Christendom to Europe, which is on the other side of the planet from me.

It also depends on you getting the consent of a real live woman to get turkey-basted with the ill-gotten spooge of an unwilling Australian aristocrat screaming from a dungeon stage left.

I see a flaw in your cunning plan!
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: dpareja on July 10, 2018, 08:47:13 pm
Australia (like ANY OTHER COMMONWEALTH REALM, including the UK) can become a republic (or choose another monarch) whenever it wants to: by voting on it. For that matter, they did. The referendum failed for various reasons, but they did vote on it.

Also, the question of who the monarch is became irrelevant once Parliament established its supremacy (particularly once the Commons established its supremacy over the Lords with the Parliament Act 1911). As long as they're competent (at staying out of politics) and don't make a total ass of themselves it really Does Not Matter.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 11, 2018, 08:05:46 am
Please remember your plan hinges on a cranky old socialist, atheist educator who loathes the very notion of royalty forming Kingsmen, on a teacher's wage, tooling up and enacting mission impossible in order to restore absolute monarchy and old Christendom to Europe, which is on the other side of the planet from me.

It also depends on you getting the consent of a real live woman to get turkey-basted with the ill-gotten spooge of an unwilling Australian aristocrat screaming from a dungeon stage left.

I see a flaw in your cunning plan!

Well your follow Ausied are never going to vote on abolishing the monarchy so the only way Australia can become your Republican utopia is for you to help my plan to restore the true English monarchy. And there will be some woman in the large organization who will consent to the plan.

You should found the Tolpuddle Martyr Australian Republican Foundation, which will attract lots of Australian Republicans as members.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 11, 2018, 09:30:27 am
Please remember your plan hinges on a cranky old socialist, atheist educator who loathes the very notion of royalty forming Kingsmen, on a teacher's wage, tooling up and enacting mission impossible in order to restore absolute monarchy and old Christendom to Europe, which is on the other side of the planet from me.

It also depends on you getting the consent of a real live woman to get turkey-basted with the ill-gotten spooge of an unwilling Australian aristocrat screaming from a dungeon stage left.

I see a flaw in your cunning plan!

Well your follow Ausied are never going to vote on abolishing the monarchy so the only way Australia can become your Republican utopia is for you to help my plan to restore the true English monarchy. And there will be some woman in the large organization who will consent to the plan.

You should found the Tolpuddle Martyr Australian Republican Foundation, which will attract lots of Australian Republicans as members.
Yes, Republicans for Absolute Monarchy. It makes a "Jacob Harrison" kind of sense!

And sunshine, we've witnessed your attempts to get women to consent on this board. How's the battle for hearts, minds and converts going by the way?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 11, 2018, 12:35:12 pm
Please remember your plan hinges on a cranky old socialist, atheist educator who loathes the very notion of royalty forming Kingsmen, on a teacher's wage, tooling up and enacting mission impossible in order to restore absolute monarchy and old Christendom to Europe, which is on the other side of the planet from me.

It also depends on you getting the consent of a real live woman to get turkey-basted with the ill-gotten spooge of an unwilling Australian aristocrat screaming from a dungeon stage left.

I see a flaw in your cunning plan!

Well your follow Ausied are never going to vote on abolishing the monarchy so the only way Australia can become your Republican utopia is for you to help my plan to restore the true English monarchy. And there will be some woman in the large organization who will consent to the plan.

You should found the Tolpuddle Martyr Australian Republican Foundation, which will attract lots of Australian Republicans as members.
Yes, Republicans for Absolute Monarchy. It makes a "Jacob Harrison" kind of sense!

And sunshine, we've witnessed your attempts to get women to consent on this board. How's the battle for hearts, minds and converts going by the way?

Well most members of the Foundation won’t know about the true plan. All most of the initiated members will know is that members of the society will infiltrate British parliament so that Australia can be made a Republic by legal means. You will create the foundation to attract members to the society.  There will be specially chosen members who swear oaths of secrecy who will be involved in the kidnapping, and infiltrating of the British parliament.

There will be some woman in the Tolpuddle Martyr Australian Republican Foundation who will consent.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Art Vandelay on July 11, 2018, 12:39:43 pm
Thanks, Jacob. I haven't laughed that hard in months.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: ironbite on July 11, 2018, 03:49:12 pm
HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH STAR WARS OR FUCKING SECOND COUSINS!?

Ironbite-seriously.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 11, 2018, 06:40:26 pm
There will be some woman in the Tolpuddle Martyr Australian Republican Foundation who will consent.
Ok, so you want me to get a bunch of hippy chicks, punk girls, teachers, academics, trade unionist women and geeks. Assemble them in a bar under false pretenses of a ladies pub trivia night, hold the turkey baster aloft like Excalibur and ask which one of them wants to be impregnated with the seed of a king?

Also, to lie back and think of England!
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 11, 2018, 08:23:31 pm
There will be some woman in the Tolpuddle Martyr Australian Republican Foundation who will consent.
Ok, so you want me to get a bunch of hippy chicks, punk girls, teachers, academics, trade unionist women and geeks. Assemble them in a bar under false pretenses of a ladies pub trivia night, hold the turkey baster aloft like Excalibur and ask which one of them wants to be impregnated with the seed of a king?

Also, to lie back and think of England!

Don’t you think at least one of the women will agree to marry the heir and be impregnated with his seed? Tell them that since she will become part of the future royal family, she will become very rich.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 11, 2018, 08:52:59 pm
There will be some woman in the Tolpuddle Martyr Australian Republican Foundation who will consent.
Ok, so you want me to get a bunch of hippy chicks, punk girls, teachers, academics, trade unionist women and geeks. Assemble them in a bar under false pretenses of a ladies pub trivia night, hold the turkey baster aloft like Excalibur and ask which one of them wants to be impregnated with the seed of a king?

Also, to lie back and think of England!

Don’t you think at least one of the women will agree to marry the heir and be impregnated with his seed? Tell them that since she will become part of the future royal family, she will become very rich.
Dude, your list of women depends on me. They would be cut from the same lefty, nerdy cloth-rather similar to the FSTDT women who recoiled at the very concept of you and any woman would first have to be convinced of the chances of success of your mad little scheme.

Shall we do that survey now?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Kanzenkankaku on July 12, 2018, 03:01:36 am
I don't think I've seen a more deluded, far-out-fucking-bonkers idea for how to fix the government since He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named protesting naked with a set of bongo drums demanding that virgin men be given wives by the government.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 12, 2018, 08:30:40 am
There will be some woman in the Tolpuddle Martyr Australian Republican Foundation who will consent.
Ok, so you want me to get a bunch of hippy chicks, punk girls, teachers, academics, trade unionist women and geeks. Assemble them in a bar under false pretenses of a ladies pub trivia night, hold the turkey baster aloft like Excalibur and ask which one of them wants to be impregnated with the seed of a king?

Also, to lie back and think of England!

Don’t you think at least one of the women will agree to marry the heir and be impregnated with his seed? Tell them that since she will become part of the future royal family, she will become very rich.
Dude, your list of women depends on me. They would be cut from the same lefty, nerdy cloth-rather similar to the FSTDT women who recoiled at the very concept of you and any woman would first have to be convinced of the chances of success of your mad little scheme.

Shall we do that survey now?

Well the amount of money she will get by being part of the royal family will certainly be a motivation.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 12, 2018, 05:06:59 pm
There will be some woman in the Tolpuddle Martyr Australian Republican Foundation who will consent.
Ok, so you want me to get a bunch of hippy chicks, punk girls, teachers, academics, trade unionist women and geeks. Assemble them in a bar under false pretenses of a ladies pub trivia night, hold the turkey baster aloft like Excalibur and ask which one of them wants to be impregnated with the seed of a king?

Also, to lie back and think of England!

Don’t you think at least one of the women will agree to marry the heir and be impregnated with his seed? Tell them that since she will become part of the future royal family, she will become very rich.
Dude, your list of women depends on me. They would be cut from the same lefty, nerdy cloth-rather similar to the FSTDT women who recoiled at the very concept of you and any woman would first have to be convinced of the chances of success of your mad little scheme.

Shall we do that survey now?

Well the amount of money she will get by being part of the royal family will certainly be a motivation.
Ok, Jake. Your plan revolves around a woman being both cartoonishly greedy and dumber than anything in the Annelida phylum and were sure there's nothing innately misogynist about that. Regardless.

If you found the most greedy, ruthless, sociopathic, gold digging, sugar-babe harpy imaginable and presented your plan, as described to us to said woman this  (https://media1.tenor.com/images/057883b177f8a63b253fa84521582d6c/tenor.gif?itemid=8374375)would happen.

And it would be glorious!
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: niam2023 on July 12, 2018, 05:17:44 pm
I'd pay good money to watch Jacob make frantic porcine noises upon being pepper sprayed.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 12, 2018, 07:19:39 pm
There will be some woman in the Tolpuddle Martyr Australian Republican Foundation who will consent.
Ok, so you want me to get a bunch of hippy chicks, punk girls, teachers, academics, trade unionist women and geeks. Assemble them in a bar under false pretenses of a ladies pub trivia night, hold the turkey baster aloft like Excalibur and ask which one of them wants to be impregnated with the seed of a king?

Also, to lie back and think of England!

Don’t you think at least one of the women will agree to marry the heir and be impregnated with his seed? Tell them that since she will become part of the future royal family, she will become very rich.
Dude, your list of women depends on me. They would be cut from the same lefty, nerdy cloth-rather similar to the FSTDT women who recoiled at the very concept of you and any woman would first have to be convinced of the chances of success of your mad little scheme.

Shall we do that survey now?

Well the amount of money she will get by being part of the royal family will certainly be a motivation.
Ok, Jake. Your plan revolves around a woman being both cartoonishly greedy and dumber than anything in the Annelida phylum and were sure there's nothing innately misogynist about that. Regardless.

If you found the most greedy, ruthless, sociopathic, gold digging, sugar-babe harpy imaginable and presented your plan, as described to us to said woman this  (https://media1.tenor.com/images/057883b177f8a63b253fa84521582d6c/tenor.gif?itemid=8374375)would happen.

And it would be glorious!

There are greedy men and women out there who are willing to do anything to become richer.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Lana Reverse on July 12, 2018, 07:24:20 pm
And you want this woman to have the ear of an absolute monarch.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/SKYJYKtNsto/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: niam2023 on July 12, 2018, 09:23:43 pm
This kind of thing has happened allegedly prior where a hedonistic greedy woman got the ear of an absolute monarch. That woman was Da Ji / Dakki and it ended with a whole lot of people tortured to death.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Askold on July 13, 2018, 01:24:04 am
Let's not forget this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliza_Lynch She seduced the guy who became the next president of Paraguay and encouraged him to become a bloodthirsty dictator. She kept urging him on all the way on his path to massive war against three other countries, mass murders and executions in Paraguay and to top it all off, after Paraguay was decimated she seduced a random officer from one of the invading armies and left with him.

(Also, traditional history claims that 90% percent of the male population over the age of 10 was killed in the war and that's the number I've always seen but turns out that later historians have disproven this and 3% national casualties are more likely though it is likely impossible to get the exact numbers.)
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 13, 2018, 02:57:16 am
Still, these real life women got the ear of men who already had power.

Something is missing in this equation.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 13, 2018, 04:36:53 am
Still, these real life women got the ear of men who already had power.

Something is missing in this equation.

Well the plan will make her son or daughter the monarch, so she will agree to it, knowing that it will make her rich in the future.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 13, 2018, 07:08:00 am
Still, these real life women got the ear of men who already had power.

Something is missing in this equation.

Well the plan will make her son or daughter the monarch, so she will agree to it, knowing that it will make her rich in the future.
Your plan involves breaking multiple laws in multiple jurisdictions, thousands keeping the whole thing secret, an armed conflict between two nuclear armed NATO powers going the way you want and the consent of millions..

..including one woman, in spite of your established capacity to repel them and me, who's primary motivation in our discussions has been to wring more batshit crazy out of you.

You don't disappoint!
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 13, 2018, 09:58:49 am
Still, these real life women got the ear of men who already had power.

Something is missing in this equation.

Well the plan will make her son or daughter the monarch, so she will agree to it, knowing that it will make her rich in the future.
Your plan involves breaking multiple laws in multiple jurisdictions, thousands keeping the whole thing secret, an armed conflict between two nuclear armed NATO powers going the way you want and the consent of millions..

..including one woman, in spite of your established capacity to repel them and me, who's primary motivation in our discussions has been to wring more batshit crazy out of you.

You don't disappoint!

Well when the people involved in the plan become MPs in the House of Commons and since the Prime Minister will be regent of England Since the crowned monarch will be the child of the women, they will have the power to declare war. Nuclear weapons will not be used, because mutually assured destruction prevents countries from wanting to use them even in times of war.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Art Vandelay on July 13, 2018, 10:03:51 am
Well, unless some infant or toddler is capable of figuring out the whole Brexit mess and unfucking the railways (among other things), I can't imagine many Brits will really give a shit.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 13, 2018, 12:33:20 pm
Well, unless some infant or toddler is capable of figuring out the whole Brexit mess and unfucking the railways (among other things), I can't imagine many Brits will really give a shit.

Well it will be too late, because they would already be tricked into electing the secret members of the organization into the House of Commons
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: ironbite on July 13, 2018, 01:08:05 pm
Hey dumbfuck.  How does any of your wacky and wild conspiracy theories have anything to do with Star Wars?

Ironbite-or fucking your second cousin?
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 13, 2018, 07:10:47 pm
So now your plan requires the current British House of Commons to become organised? (http://revisitinghaven.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/disbelief_look_back_forth.gif)

Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 13, 2018, 07:50:42 pm
So now your plan requires the current British House of Commons to become organised? (http://revisitinghaven.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/disbelief_look_back_forth.gif)

Yes. The best way to change a government is to infiltrate it from within.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 13, 2018, 09:54:06 pm
So now your plan requires the current British House of Commons to become organised? (http://revisitinghaven.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/disbelief_look_back_forth.gif)

Yes. The best way to change a government is to infiltrate it from within.
Drawn from the vast wealth of experiential knowledge you brought to the topic of marriage, eh?

Also, you've derailed from the original purpose of this thread which was debating the merits of the various components a space fantasy franchise. That's more your speed.
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: niam2023 on July 13, 2018, 10:24:24 pm
I love how every single thread becomes all about Jacob's weird conspiracy to rape a dude, conceive an heir by force, and take over Britain.

I think Jacob is just confused about his desire to watch Max Irons bust a nut - since he did play Edward IV...
Title: Re: Why the traditional 1980s Star Wars Canon is superior to the SJW Disney one
Post by: Kanzenkankaku on July 14, 2018, 11:46:16 pm
I love how every single thread becomes all about Jacob's weird conspiracy to rape a dude, conceive an heir by force, and take over Britain.

I think Jacob is just confused about his desire to watch Max Irons bust a nut - since he did play Edward IV...

Take over Britain and turn it into a theocracy a la Saudi Arabia, nonetheless.