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Community => Entertainment and Television => Topic started by: Katsuro on April 20, 2016, 10:41:03 am

Title: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Katsuro on April 20, 2016, 10:41:03 am
This is more than just a little amazing.  Sometimes it's hard to remember I'm living in 2016.  http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/04/15/ghost-in-the-shell-visual-effects-tests-were-done-to-alter-actress-ethnicity

Quote
Facing criticism for "whitewashing" the role of Major Motoko Kusanagi, producers attempted to "shift [Johansson's] ethnicity" in post-production, making the white actress appear "more Asian" for the film.

The studio is denying it was for Johansson, but they would wouldn't they.  And yes they decided against it after seeing the results, but the fact that they considering doing this at all, to any actor background or otherwise, in this day in age is incredible.  And if it was done to address  the criticisms of whitewashing then it's completely fucking insane - missing the fucking point much?  How much crack would  they have to be smoking at the Paramount offices to make digital yellow face seem like an acceptable response?  Or an acceptable anything for that matter?
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Ironchew on April 20, 2016, 11:34:44 am
How much crack would  they have to be smoking at the Paramount offices to make digital yellow face seem like an acceptable response?  Or an acceptable anything for that matter?

I believe the term you're thinking of is "unacceptibru".
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: TheContrarian on April 20, 2016, 12:41:32 pm
I can't wait for these same people to rage out when Idris Elba is announced as the next James Bond.

Oh.  fucking.  wait.

#muhdoublestandard
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Ironchew on April 20, 2016, 01:39:16 pm
Contrarian-san, you speakee rear good Engrish.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: TheContrarian on April 20, 2016, 02:03:14 pm
Lacist
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 20, 2016, 02:13:28 pm
I can't wait for these same people to rage out when Idris Elba is announced as the next James Bond.

Oh.  fucking.  wait.

#muhdoublestandard

I take it you don't remember the "blond Bond" rage.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: TheContrarian on April 20, 2016, 02:25:46 pm
I can't wait for these same people to rage out when Idris Elba is announced as the next James Bond.

Oh.  fucking.  wait.

#muhdoublestandard

I take it you don't remember the "blond Bond" rage.

No, my "giving a fuck" must have been at the dry cleaners that day.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Katsuro on April 20, 2016, 03:00:12 pm
I can't wait for these same people to rage out when Idris Elba is announced as the next James Bond.

Oh.  fucking.  wait.

#muhdoublestandard

Yeah because the film industry in the west has a long and sordid history of giving roles that should go to underrepresented white people to ethnic minorities instead because they're either outright racist towards whites themselves or because they think audiences don't want to see films staring white people.

Oh.  Fucking. Wait.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Katsuro on April 20, 2016, 03:03:17 pm
How much crack would  they have to be smoking at the Paramount offices to make digital yellow face seem like an acceptable response?  Or an acceptable anything for that matter?

I believe the term you're thinking of is "unacceptibru".

I think I love you.

I'm annoyed that I didn't think to call it "shamefur dispray" at the time.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: TheContrarian on April 20, 2016, 03:13:52 pm
I can't wait for these same people to rage out when Idris Elba is announced as the next James Bond.

Oh.  fucking.  wait.

#muhdoublestandard

Yeah because the film industry in the west has a long and sordid history of giving roles that should go to underrepresented white people to ethnic minorities instead because they're either outright racist towards whites themselves or because they think audiences don't want to see films staring white people.

Oh.  Fucking. Wait.

Well, the original source material is Japanese.  Look through the history of Japanese cinema and you'll more than likely find two things:

Japanese actors and characters form a majority
Japanese actors cast in roles of non-Japanese characters

*gasp* FUCKING SHOCKING!

But oh yeah, blah-de-blah-de-blah white privilege XD
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Cloud3514 on April 21, 2016, 02:34:04 am
What, movies made in a country with about 1% of the population being white people star mostly Japanese people? I'm shocked.

You cite Idris Elba possibly playing James Bond. Why not? The man is actually English, unlike most of the actors that have played him. There's no reason not to. Generally I support colorblind casting, especially when it's for a work that there's really no reason for a specific ethnicity to be considered.

Ghost in the Shell is not one of those cases. It is a Japanese story with Japanese cultural sensibilities. Just about everything about Ghost in the Shell is based on Japanese culture. Casting Scarlet Johanssen as a character named Makoto Kusanagi in a story that takes place in Japan and is based on Japanese culture is blatant whitewashing.

Of course, whitewashing is the least of what I expect from Hollywood with Ghost in the Shell. I fully expect all of the complex themes of transhumanism and feminism as well as the exploration of society and technology to be cut out in favor of making just another action movie. And on top of everything, this is another unnecessary remake because Ghost in the Shell is already a film.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on April 21, 2016, 02:58:20 am
Hollywood on everything:

Get a grizzled white antihero, a token friend who may or may not die tragically in the first act, a fuckable white babe as a love interest, foreign accent baddies and...more cocaine in here. It's midday goddammit!

Also 'splosions and car chases.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Katsuro on April 21, 2016, 01:11:47 pm
I can't wait for these same people to rage out when Idris Elba is announced as the next James Bond.

Oh.  fucking.  wait.

#muhdoublestandard

Yeah because the film industry in the west has a long and sordid history of giving roles that should go to underrepresented white people to ethnic minorities instead because they're either outright racist towards whites themselves or because they think audiences don't want to see films staring white people.

Oh.  Fucking. Wait.

Well, the original source material is Japanese.  Look through the history of Japanese cinema and you'll more than likely find two things:

Japanese actors and characters form a majority
Japanese actors cast in roles of non-Japanese characters

*gasp* FUCKING SHOCKING!

But oh yeah, blah-de-blah-de-blah white privilege XD

"They're doing it too!" and "They started it!" are not justifications.  Are you actually 10 years old?
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Katsuro on April 21, 2016, 01:16:22 pm
Of course, whitewashing is the least of what I expect from Hollywood with Ghost in the Shell. I fully expect all of the complex themes of transhumanism and feminism as well as the exploration of society and technology to be cut out in favor of making just another action movie. And on top of everything, this is another unnecessary remake because Ghost in the Shell is already a film.

Oh yeah, I fully expect this adaptation to suck balls completely independently of the whitewashing.  This is just the icing on the cake of shit.  I could be wrong, but nothing about Hollywood in recent years has given me cause for optimism.  Well, except the Lego Movie.  I still can't believe that was good, how did that happen??
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 21, 2016, 01:33:57 pm
I'm half-expecting it to be Lucy meets Dragonball Evolution.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: TheContrarian on April 24, 2016, 12:28:36 pm
What, movies made in a country with about 1% of the population being white people star mostly Japanese people? I'm shocked.

And 92% of the UK population is white.  Therefore by your logic it's perfectly acceptable to exclude ethnic minority britons based on this fact alone.  Nice.

Quote
You cite Idris Elba possibly playing James Bond. Why not? The man is actually English, unlike most of the actors that have played him.

What's nationality got to do with it?  The buzzword being thrown about in the OP isn't "americanwashing" after all.  People are objecting to a casting decision purely because of the race of the actor.  That's where the parallel to Elba potentially being the next James Bond came from.  It's exactly the same racist bilge that was thrown around when that idea was mooted.

I think he'd be great, personally.

Quote
There's no reason not to. Generally I support colorblind casting, especially when it's for a work that there's really no reason for a specific ethnicity to be considered.

Quite.  But I wouldn't say there's ever a case for considering ethnicity in casting decisions.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 24, 2016, 02:20:32 pm
I wouldn't particularly mind a black actor being cast as James Bond, but I think it would be better to have an original IP.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Cloud3514 on April 24, 2016, 07:54:43 pm
And 92% of the UK population is white.  Therefore by your logic it's perfectly acceptable to exclude ethnic minority britons based on this fact alone.  Nice.

Not really. For one, you're wrong. According to the 2011 census, the number is actually only 87.1%. For two, I was wrong. The population of Japan is 98.5% Japanese. White people are so scarce in Japan, we don't even register in their 0.1% "other" category. And yet, I've still seen white people cast in (Japanese voiced/acted) anime and movies when appropriate. The Death Note movie, for example, cast a white actor to play the fake L that appeared on TV to announce the Interpol investigation of Kira. Beck (the anime, not the singer) cast a large number of white and black voice actors, all ex-pats, to voice white and black characters. Hell, there was a monster of the week in Kamen Rider OOO that was played in human form and voiced by a black actor.

The Japanese population is less than a tenth of a percent white, but yet they're better at casting white actors in appropriate roles than Hollywood is at casting Asian actors in appropriate roles.

Quote
What's nationality got to do with it?  The buzzword being thrown about in the OP isn't "americanwashing" after all.  People are objecting to a casting decision purely because of the race of the actor.  That's where the parallel to Elba potentially being the next James Bond came from.  It's exactly the same racist bilge that was thrown around when that idea was mooted.

My point.











Your head. Probably intentionally on your part, no less.

James Bond is not a role where his race matters. Any ethnicity could play James Bond. I pointed out that Idris Elba was actually British because it shows that he's more accurate to the books than Sean Connery or Pierce Brosnan, let alone George Lazenby, who is Australian or Barry Nelson, who was not only the first actor to play Bond, but also an American. My point, as you're so happy to ignore, is that if a Scottsman, an Irishman, an Australian and an American can play James Bond, why can't Idris Elba?

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I think he'd be great, personally.

Well, we can definitely agree on that. Idris Elba is pretty awesome.

Quote
Quite.  But I wouldn't say there's ever a case for considering ethnicity in casting decisions.

I strongly disagree. I've already made my case with Ghost in the Shell, so I don't feel the need to repeat myself, but this is the kind of excuse a university used to excuse casting a white man to play Martin Luther King Jr. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/11/a-white-actor-was-cast-as-mlk-until-the-black-playwright-caught-wind-of-it/)

There's no reason to consider race for James Bond or, since we're talking Idris Elba, Heimdal, but a white man playing Martin Luther King Jr.? If culture or race are an important part of a story or character, then colorblind casting doesn't work. It would be like casting a guy from Wales to play Othello, despite the character being a Moor and a Muslim being a very important part of the play.

I wouldn't particularly mind a black actor being cast as James Bond, but I think it would be better to have an original IP.

So, in other words, you want a separate, but equal version of James Bond for black people.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 24, 2016, 08:04:14 pm
I wouldn't particularly mind a black actor being cast as James Bond, but I think it would be better to have an original IP.

So, in other words, you want a separate, but equal version of James Bond for black people.

Not exactly.  See, I have zero problem with a black James Bond.  My fear is that they might cast a black actor for the wrong reasons.  I never liked politically-charged racebending, and I doubt many others would.

As for my thoughts on Idris Elba, I think he's too old for the part.  Look at what happened when they cast Roger Moore.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Cloud3514 on April 24, 2016, 08:11:42 pm
You literally said that a new IP should be created in favor of having Elba play Bond. No amount of backpedaling will change that you already asked for a separate, but equal Bond.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 24, 2016, 08:12:36 pm
You literally said that a new IP should be created in favor of having Elba play Bond. No amount of backpedaling will change that you already asked for a separate, but equal Bond.

Which ties into the "politically charged racebending" thing I mentioned.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: ironbite on April 24, 2016, 08:15:25 pm
Gosh did UP say something that he now regrets?  However shall he respond!?

Ironbite-*gets the popcorn*
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: mellenORL on April 24, 2016, 08:18:48 pm
Idris Elba is 43 now. Three years younger than Moore was in The Spy Who Loved Me. And Elba was actually one of the several actors being talked about along with Daniel Craig in being considered for the new Bond. Also, due to having higher levels of collagen along with more melanin, Elba's good looks would in fact hold up much better during a long run as James Bond.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Ironchew on April 24, 2016, 08:29:57 pm
Gosh did UP say something that he now regrets?  However shall he respond!?

Ironbite-*gets the popcorn*

inb4 "I'm not racist! Some of my best slaves are black!"
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: ironbite on April 24, 2016, 08:37:08 pm
I like this clone.  We should keep it.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Even Then on April 24, 2016, 08:37:37 pm
So when a black actor is discussed, you're worried that he'll get cast because of politics, but ScarJo in the role of an explicitly Japanese woman in a thematically Japanese work is not politics because something something best actor for the role. And also there should be a James Bond for black people because we need to keep the integrity of the role intact. But casting a white actor as a Japanese woman is okay. Because #notallroles.

Sometimes I ask myself "hmm, should I ease up on UP?" Thank you for snapping me out of it.

Oh, and about that 'there's no racism in casting' bullshit... (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/hobbit-casting-agent-fired-posting-call-light-skinned-extras-article-1.456640)
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: ironbite on April 24, 2016, 08:39:50 pm
Actually the ScarJo situation isn't as clear cut as that.  The Major in GitS isn't actually specifically Japanese.  That's just her current body and there's backstory that states that it isn't even her first body.  But yes they should've cast an Asian actress as the Major but we're stuck with this bullshit so.....

Ironbite-don't go see the movie and you'll vote with your wallet?
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: RavynousHunter on April 24, 2016, 08:43:30 pm
This shit, right here, is why I wait til I can stream movies or somethin.  Its just not worth it to support this crap monetarily.  That, and most theaters suck.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Even Then on April 24, 2016, 08:44:54 pm
Eh, fair. I don't think one dude's boycott is gonna do much, tho.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: The_Queen on April 24, 2016, 08:50:50 pm
Gosh did UP say something that he now regrets?  However shall he respond!?

Ironbite-*gets the popcorn*

inb4 "I'm not racist! Some of my best slaves are black!"

This is why I like you dude. Your snark never ceases to amaze me.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: RavynousHunter on April 24, 2016, 09:05:49 pm
Eh, fair. I don't think one dude's boycott is gonna do much, tho.

True, but my food's also better than most theaters.  Come by for a movie, sometime.  I'll show you how a real man makes nachos!
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: ironbite on April 24, 2016, 09:10:37 pm
You have my attention.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Ironchew on April 24, 2016, 09:26:32 pm
I'll show you how a real man makes nachos!

If you don't mind putting the source code somewhere, I may make a nachos build as well.

Unstable nachos are acceptable too.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Vinroke on April 24, 2016, 09:45:42 pm
slightly OOTL here, there's a Live Action GitS?
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: RavynousHunter on April 24, 2016, 10:02:42 pm
You have my attention.

Let's just say I like mine fully-loaded.

I'll show you how a real man makes nachos!

If you don't mind putting the source code somewhere, I may make a nachos build as well.

Unstable nachos are acceptable too.

Unfortunately, I just do it all by hand using command-line kung fu.

Also, unstable nachos...hm.  Anti-matter nachos.  Good or bad?
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 24, 2016, 10:12:24 pm
So when a black actor is discussed, you're worried that he'll get cast because of politics, but ScarJo in the role of an explicitly Japanese woman in a thematically Japanese work is not politics because something something best actor for the role. And also there should be a James Bond for black people because we need to keep the integrity of the role intact. But casting a white actor as a Japanese woman is okay. Because #notallroles.

Sometimes I ask myself "hmm, should I ease up on UP?" Thank you for snapping me out of it.

Oh, and about that 'there's no racism in casting' bullshit... (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/hobbit-casting-agent-fired-posting-call-light-skinned-extras-article-1.456640)

Don't put words in my mouth.  I never said there was no racism in casting.  Just look at the casting calls for the Last Airbender movie.  And I hate ScarJo being cast as a Japanese woman as much as you do.  It's indefensible.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Even Then on April 24, 2016, 10:18:33 pm
Oh, right, that was Contrarian.  Nevermind. However, I think I can be forgiven since a lot of the things you say are very similar to whatever bilge Contrarian spews on any given day.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: TheContrarian on April 26, 2016, 04:32:25 pm
I wouldn't particularly mind a black actor being cast as James Bond, but I think it would be better to have an original IP.

So, in other words, you want a separate, but equal version of James Bond for black people.

Not exactly.  See, I have zero problem with a black James Bond.  My fear is that they might cast a black actor for the wrong reasons.  I never liked politically-charged racebending, and I doubt many others would.

As for my thoughts on Idris Elba, I think he's too old for the part.  Look at what happened when they cast Roger Moore.

Oh fuck it, ageism AND racism etc.

Alls I want is a bit of consistency in the way people apply their principles.  I want to see a new adaptation of Henry V with a Korean chick playing the King and a new biopic of Rosa Parks with the title character played by John Cena.

If you're doing it, do it properly for fuck's sake.
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: Vinroke on April 26, 2016, 04:40:47 pm
a new biopic of Rosa Parks with the title character played by John Cena.

 That sounds like the most bizarre film I would never grow tired of. Would need a good director though
Title: Re: Accused of whitewashing? Yellow Face is the obvious solution!
Post by: ironbite on April 26, 2016, 05:21:53 pm
Christopher Nolan.