Author Topic: Mozilla CEO Steps Down, Homophobes Cry Foul  (Read 14088 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline The Illusive Man

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 869
  • Gender: Male
  • Saw the ME3 endings, got turned into a husk. :(-
Re: Mozilla CEO Steps Down, Homophobes Cry Foul
« Reply #60 on: April 26, 2014, 01:15:06 am »
No the speech against same sex unions does not specifically target homosexuals.  In a state were same sex marriages are allowed can two heterosexual men get married?  Yes.  Would they is a different matter.  That is why say that same sex marriages are destroying society targets the marriage, not the individuals.
Tell me, how are union and marriage equivalent to the point of interchangeability and how is it not separate but equal?

Secondly, you have not answered the question. Without any homosexuality why would two people of the same sex marry? An absurdity is not a defense.



See if it was not for the distinction between same sex marriage and homosexuality court would not be ruling for same sex marriage.  They do so because it is a person's sex which can't be discriminated against. There is nothing in the Constitution that says you can't discriminate based on sexual orientation.
Do tell how and why someone can't be discriminated against due to their sex.



I'm am not ignorant of the differences of hate speech and hate crimes.  You seem to be.  I asked you before if you could post a hate speech law from anywhere that would make donation to anti-same sex marriages groups a hate speech crime, or even talking in opposition of same sex marriage.  You have yet to do so because you can't.
Tell me, is group libel speech or action?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 01:42:48 am by The Illusive Man »
Despite knowing about indoctrination I thought it was a good idea to put a human Reaper near my office. Now I am a sentient husk :(.

*RRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRR* *SCREECH* *smokes*


Offline m52nickerson

  • Polish Viking
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
  • Gender: Male
  • Winning by flying omoplata!
Re: Mozilla CEO Steps Down, Homophobes Cry Foul
« Reply #61 on: April 26, 2014, 01:05:12 pm »
No the speech against same sex unions does not specifically target homosexuals.  In a state were same sex marriages are allowed can two heterosexual men get married?  Yes.  Would they is a different matter.  That is why say that same sex marriages are destroying society targets the marriage, not the individuals.
Tell me, how are union and marriage equivalent to the point of interchangeability and how is it not separate but equal?

Secondly, you have not answered the question. Without any homosexuality why would two people of the same sex marry? An absurdity is not a defense.



See if it was not for the distinction between same sex marriage and homosexuality court would not be ruling for same sex marriage.  They do so because it is a person's sex which can't be discriminated against. There is nothing in the Constitution that says you can't discriminate based on sexual orientation.
Do tell how and why someone can't be discriminated against due to their sex.



I'm am not ignorant of the differences of hate speech and hate crimes.  You seem to be.  I asked you before if you could post a hate speech law from anywhere that would make donation to anti-same sex marriages groups a hate speech crime, or even talking in opposition of same sex marriage.  You have yet to do so because you can't.
Tell me, is group libel speech or action?

I was interchanging union with marriage, I should not have.  I'm not making an argument for civil unions.

Two people of the same sex may marry and not be homosexual for the other benefits, lower taxes, access to health care.  In the end that does not matter, all that matters is that they could.

There are multiple Supreme Court rules which indicate people can't be discriminated against because of there sex unless that discrimination surveys a legitimate governmental purpose.  These are based on the 14th amendment.

Groups can't be defamed, only individuals can.  You should take a basic law class some time.
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. ~Macbeth

Offline mellenORL

  • Pedal Pushing Puppy Peon
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3876
  • Gender: Female
Re: Mozilla CEO Steps Down, Homophobes Cry Foul
« Reply #62 on: April 26, 2014, 02:56:53 pm »
http://www.splc.org/knowyourrights/legalresearch.asp?id=27

Quote
Group Libel
Individuals can be defamed; groups of people cannot be. The key question is whether a statement about a group can reasonably be interpreted to refer to a specific individual in the group. While there is no hard rule, several courts have indicated that individual members of a group larger than 25 will have a difficult time proving that they have suffered individual harm. On the other hand, individuals in a smaller group may be able to claim that their reputation has been damaged. For example, the generic statement, "the tennis team is being investigated for substance abuse" could subject a publication to a libel suit if the team consists of just 12 members.
Quote from: Ultimate Chatbot That Totally Passes The Turing Test
I sympathize completely. However, to use against us. Let me ask you a troll. On the one who pulled it. But here's the question: where do I think it might as well have stepped out of all people would cling to a layman.

Offline Yla

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mozilla CEO Steps Down, Homophobes Cry Foul
« Reply #63 on: May 01, 2014, 05:31:20 pm »
No the speech against same sex unions does not specifically target homosexuals.
Bullshit. Context matters.
That said, I've stopped trying to anticipate what people around here want a while ago, I've found it makes things smoother.
For I was an hungred, and ye told me to pull myself up by my bootstraps: I was thirsty, and ye demanded payment for the privilege of thine urine: I was a stranger, and ye deported me: naked, and ye arrested me for indecency.

Offline m52nickerson

  • Polish Viking
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
  • Gender: Male
  • Winning by flying omoplata!
Re: Mozilla CEO Steps Down, Homophobes Cry Foul
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2014, 04:15:59 pm »
No the speech against same sex unions does not specifically target homosexuals.
Bullshit. Context matters.

What context is that?  The fact that almost every same sex marriage will be between homosexuals?  That is true, but speech against same sex marriage is not going to be seen in the eye's of the law specifically targeting homosexuals because under the laws being opposed two heterosexual people of the same sex could marry.

Look I understand that people opposed to same sex marriage are largely opposed to gays gaining any acceptance in society.  However they have carefully crafted their arguments against same sex marriage to avoid some of the legal pitfalls they may face. 
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. ~Macbeth

Offline Yla

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mozilla CEO Steps Down, Homophobes Cry Foul
« Reply #65 on: May 05, 2014, 10:46:27 am »
Same sex marriage is a concept that is intrinsically linked to homosexual persons.

The counterargument that two hetero men could marry too with SSM established is equivalent to saying that without SSM, a homosexual man can marry any woman he wishes, so he is not legally disadvantaged. In a mathematical sense true, but utterly irrelevant in the real world. In the real world, context is a thing, and you can't isolate a single aspect to the situation and make a generalization about it, unless you show that those other aspects are irrelevant. The right to marry a woman is worthless to a gay man, and the right to marry a man is worthless to a straight man, so a law banning SSM is not affecting heterosexual people in a meaningful way. Therefore, it is targeting homosexual people specifically. Speech supporting such a law follows in the same vein.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 10:48:12 am by Yla »
That said, I've stopped trying to anticipate what people around here want a while ago, I've found it makes things smoother.
For I was an hungred, and ye told me to pull myself up by my bootstraps: I was thirsty, and ye demanded payment for the privilege of thine urine: I was a stranger, and ye deported me: naked, and ye arrested me for indecency.

Offline m52nickerson

  • Polish Viking
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
  • Gender: Male
  • Winning by flying omoplata!
Re: Mozilla CEO Steps Down, Homophobes Cry Foul
« Reply #66 on: May 05, 2014, 02:14:36 pm »
Same sex marriage is a concept that is intrinsically linked to homosexual persons.

The counterargument that two hetero men could marry too with SSM established is equivalent to saying that without SSM, a homosexual man can marry any woman he wishes, so he is not legally disadvantaged. In a mathematical sense true, but utterly irrelevant in the real world. In the real world, context is a thing, and you can't isolate a single aspect to the situation and make a generalization about it, unless you show that those other aspects are irrelevant. The right to marry a woman is worthless to a gay man, and the right to marry a man is worthless to a straight man, so a law banning SSM is not affecting heterosexual people in a meaningful way. Therefore, it is targeting homosexual people specifically. Speech supporting such a law follows in the same vein.

In a mathematical and legal sense it is true, that is the point.  It is also important because right now, federally, sexual orientation is not a protected item when it comes to discrimination.  So the argument that a homosexual man can marry a women would hold weight in federal courts.  However, sex is protected and thus making that argument that laws against same sex marriage discriminate has past legal backing.

In the larger argument that was being made the US does not have hate speech laws, and the countries that do none of them would classify donations groups against same sex marriage, nor speech against same sex marriage hate speech.   
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. ~Macbeth