Author Topic: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit  (Read 15950 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #75 on: September 07, 2017, 02:01:47 am »


The argument seems to be that unless people protesting against Nazis, aka "people who aren't Nazis," all remain 100% non-violent and treat Nazis with respect at all times then the Nazis can suddenly pretend to be victims ...and somehow hypnotize every neutral person into thinking that the two sides are the same?

I mean, if you can't tell the difference between elbowing someone in the face or stabbing two people to death then I guess that makes sense.

Just seems like one of those arguments where a black person has somehow deserved to be shot to death by police because they weren't respecful enough while a white person can literally bring assault rifle to a police station while wearing a body armour and the police are to be blamed for kindly asking him to leave because they were disprespectful to his 2nd amendment rights.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline davedan

  • Lord Cracker
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3539
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #76 on: September 07, 2017, 02:13:19 am »
For the record I'm not buying into the two sides are equal bullshit or that punching Richard Spencer in the face somehow is the equivalent of deliberately driving your car into a group of people. I'm just saying that mocking him or making him 'look like a cuck' as the 'alt-right' would say is probably more effective in the long run. Although I should note that the guy who organised the Charlottseville e Nazi rally ran away from people deliberately not touching him. The guy shouting in his face 'Indict for murder now' had his hands in the air as the 'cuck' ran away and fell over repeatedly trying to do so.

Much like the film of the 'alt-right cuck' taking of his shirt when confronted, it was much more effective that no one subsequently punched him in the face, although I viscerally feel that is what they deserve.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3716
  • Have you got thumbs? SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING THUMBS!
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #77 on: September 07, 2017, 05:05:24 am »
Okay, I have something to ask. You justify preemptive strikes against the alt-right because the police supposedly won't intervene. With that in mind, I have a direct question: do you have any evidence? And I mean evidence of this being a pattern, not the occasional incident.

We've done this dance before Lana!
Oh hey, interesting little factoid from the organizer of the Berkeley rally, Rich Black. Archived, in case it goes down.

Quote
Although I cannot and will not justify all of their decisions on that day, it should be known that when the last speaker had finished, per instruction, we gave a public announcement to begin evacuating the area and the Police mobilized against Antifa allowing us to leave. It was also to our understanding that the Police had made assurances to us, granted we would not cross the orange fencing at any time. I understand that this may have been impossible at times. However, if it were not for the Police immediately disarming the first wave of Antifa, whom were in a full charge against us, the event would have been shut down before it began and would have resulted in tremendous blood shed.

So there you have it, yes - above we have evidence that both groups carried weapons but the organizer of the "patriot" rally tells us that A, the cops who were strangely absent during much of the violence of the day mobilized against Antifa for the purpose of allowing the "patriots" and assorted alt righters and Nazis to leave safely and B they disarmed the first wave of Antifa before the violence began. It would seem that the enforcers of the law were more concerned about tipping the balance in the right wingers favor than enforcing the law equitably and professionally.

Somehow I doubt Lana or Conty will be very concerned.

It was the thread where you ended up being called a Nazi water carrying coward by Ironbite. Remember?

And fuck yes, it's a pattern!
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 05:08:35 am by Tolpuddle Martyr »

pyro

  • Guest
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2017, 06:06:08 pm »
You're right about one thing, though: the Nazis are a domestic problem.  A domestic terrorist problem.  Oh, if only we had a place where we could send people who form armed mobs for the purpose of frightening a large portion of the populace.  Maybe made of concrete and steel, with bars on each room.  Too bad we don't have places like that scattered around like jacks.

Is it naive to think that that's what jails are for? Or is it excessive to stop considering the ongoing and longstanding use of the state as a tool of oppression "abuse" and start considering the possibility that oppression is actually the state's purpose?

Offline Lana Reverse

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
  • Gender: Female
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #79 on: September 07, 2017, 08:38:39 pm »
Okay, I have something to ask. You justify preemptive strikes against the alt-right because the police supposedly won't intervene. With that in mind, I have a direct question: do you have any evidence? And I mean evidence of this being a pattern, not the occasional incident.

We've done this dance before Lana!
Oh hey, interesting little factoid from the organizer of the Berkeley rally, Rich Black. Archived, in case it goes down.

Quote
Although I cannot and will not justify all of their decisions on that day, it should be known that when the last speaker had finished, per instruction, we gave a public announcement to begin evacuating the area and the Police mobilized against Antifa allowing us to leave. It was also to our understanding that the Police had made assurances to us, granted we would not cross the orange fencing at any time. I understand that this may have been impossible at times. However, if it were not for the Police immediately disarming the first wave of Antifa, whom were in a full charge against us, the event would have been shut down before it began and would have resulted in tremendous blood shed.

So there you have it, yes - above we have evidence that both groups carried weapons but the organizer of the "patriot" rally tells us that A, the cops who were strangely absent during much of the violence of the day mobilized against Antifa for the purpose of allowing the "patriots" and assorted alt righters and Nazis to leave safely and B they disarmed the first wave of Antifa before the violence began. It would seem that the enforcers of the law were more concerned about tipping the balance in the right wingers favor than enforcing the law equitably and professionally.

Somehow I doubt Lana or Conty will be very concerned.

It was the thread where you ended up being called a Nazi water carrying coward by Ironbite. Remember?

And fuck yes, it's a pattern!

You mean the thread where everybody jumped on me while Askold accused me of logical fallacies? Yep.

Regarding what Rich said, you seem to be ignoring the part where he said Antifa was charging. I mean, as long as we're taking him at his word, why not talk about the part where he said Antifa started the fight?

Also, the article you linked gives no evidence of any "pattern". At most, it might have a point about Christie being biased. Try reading your links.
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.

Offline RavynousHunter

  • Master Thief
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8108
  • Gender: Male
  • A man of no consequence.
    • My Twitter
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #80 on: September 07, 2017, 09:54:57 pm »
You're right about one thing, though: the Nazis are a domestic problem.  A domestic terrorist problem.  Oh, if only we had a place where we could send people who form armed mobs for the purpose of frightening a large portion of the populace.  Maybe made of concrete and steel, with bars on each room.  Too bad we don't have places like that scattered around like jacks.

Is it naive to think that that's what jails are for? Or is it excessive to stop considering the ongoing and longstanding use of the state as a tool of oppression "abuse" and start considering the possibility that oppression is actually the state's purpose?

The state is a tool; it is not the state that is a problem, it is the people using it that are the issue.  Ideally, the state exists to enforce the social contract: to protect society as a whole (in the form of law and order, as well as a military presence), to provide for the common good (education, health care, etc), and to provide the upkeep for public utilities (roads, rails, and bridges, as well as public utilities like water and power).

The problem oftentimes lies in the first part of the contract, the protection of society at large.  We see this in the increased militarization of the police, giving them access to military-grade hardware without the requisite training and experience needed to know when it should be used for the greatest overall effect.  The police, themselves, are easily the largest (and most commonly used) tool for the systemic oppression of the underclass and minorities, but that is not their purpose.  Their purpose is to, as they say, "protect and serve."  In a more honest, less idiotically corrupt society, that would mean everyone.  As it is, the people with the money can buy their way out of receiving their just punishment (so...what happened to all them bankers what almost obliterated our economy about a decade back?) while poor people and minorities are abused by a system that is fundamentally rigged against them.  That, combined with the shocking lack of oversight when it comes to psychologically vetting our potential law enforcement personnel, makes for a perfect storm of a tool that can be easily abused.

However, ideally, people like neo-Nazis, skinheads, radical "militias," and so on would be put behind bars for either actively committing crimes, aiding and abetting known criminals, or plotting to commit crimes and acts of domestic terrorism.  These people are a threat to a large number of people; to deal with that threat, such people ought to be contained in a secured place where they are monitored and kept away from society at large.

But, who's going to arrest a white man when there's plenty of unarmed black teenagers out there just begging to be gunned down, amirite?
Quote from: Bra'tac
Life for the sake of life means nothing.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3716
  • Have you got thumbs? SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING THUMBS!
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #81 on: September 08, 2017, 02:15:45 am »
Try reading your links.
Lecture me about referencing after you remember to cite an article.at all.

You know the one you called "the article" in reference to some article that wasn't referenced in this thread. Assuming it exists. The one I asked about you that you still haven't bothered to identify.

Antifa were the aggressors at Berkeley. Didn't you read the article?
There wasn't an article in the OP.

WHAT. FUCKING. ARTICLE. LANA???
Remember I asked you that to deafening silence O Ultimate Paragon of direct questioning, Dynamic Dragon of Citations. Yeah, I found the article despite your inability to cite yourself. From the Washington Post, the same Washington Post who equated Nazis and Anti Nazis.
Fuck off!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 03:01:17 am by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Lana Reverse

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
  • Gender: Female
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #82 on: September 08, 2017, 11:45:40 am »
Try reading your links.
Lecture me about referencing after you remember to cite an article.at all.

You know the one you called "the article" in reference to some article that wasn't referenced in this thread. Assuming it exists. The one I asked about you that you still haven't bothered to identify.

Antifa were the aggressors at Berkeley. Didn't you read the article?
There wasn't an article in the OP.

WHAT. FUCKING. ARTICLE. LANA???
Remember I asked you that to deafening silence O Ultimate Paragon of direct questioning, Dynamic Dragon of Citations. Yeah, I found the article despite your inability to cite yourself. From the Washington Post, the same Washington Post who equated Nazis and Anti Nazis.
Fuck off!

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. If you disagree with its claims of moral equivalency, that's fine. But that doesn't change the facts the article presents. If you have evidence against its claims, then show us.

Oh, and by the way, I did post a link to the article.

Yeah, it's so unreasonable to denounce politically-motivated violence./s

You even quoted the post the link was in!

What I don't get is why they even bothered. There are already plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Antifa, you don't have to make things up.
Thank you for reminding us that extreme centrism is still OK Lana.

Now watch thread degenerate into shouting match about virtues/vices of Antifa. MOAR DRAMA!

Yeah, it's so unreasonable to denounce politically-motivated violence./s

Direct question: do you think violence against peaceful protesters is ever acceptable?
Direct Answer, nope but the Charlotsville goons weren't peaceful. Nazis are not peaceful.

Source: one squished lady and World War fuckin' two!
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.

Offline ironbite

  • Overlord of all that is good in Iacon City
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10686
  • Gender: Male
  • Stuck in the middle with you.
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #83 on: September 08, 2017, 11:57:52 am »
Gonna ask again.  Is your back sore from carrying all that water?

Ironbite-mine would be.

Offline Lana Reverse

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
  • Gender: Female
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2017, 12:09:32 pm »
Gonna ask again.  Is your back sore from carrying all that water?

Ironbite-mine would be.

I'm not "carrying water" for the Nazis.

Direct question: why do you think I am?
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.

Offline ironbite

  • Overlord of all that is good in Iacon City
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10686
  • Gender: Male
  • Stuck in the middle with you.
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #85 on: September 08, 2017, 05:36:34 pm »
Because you are.

Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.

Offline dpareja

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 5680
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #86 on: September 08, 2017, 05:57:53 pm »
Because you are.

Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.

Well, I sort of am, but only insofar as I defend their right to the peaceful expression of their views because I want to ensure that I can do the same.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Eiki-mun

  • der Löwe aus Mitternacht
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1475
  • Gender: Male
  • On the fields of Breitenfeld.
    • Main Personal Blog
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #87 on: September 08, 2017, 06:55:23 pm »
Because you are.

Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.

Well, I sort of am, but only insofar as I defend their right to the peaceful expression of their views because I want to ensure that I can do the same.

On the other hand, if they get their way, you won't be able to do the same.
There is no plague more evil and vile to watch spread than the plague that is the Von Habsburg dynasty.

Offline dpareja

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 5680
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #88 on: September 08, 2017, 07:12:01 pm »
Because you are.

Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.

Well, I sort of am, but only insofar as I defend their right to the peaceful expression of their views because I want to ensure that I can do the same.

On the other hand, if they get their way, you won't be able to do the same.

Which is why I don't defend them any further and would exercise my free speech to speak against what they say.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Lana Reverse

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
  • Gender: Female
Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #89 on: September 08, 2017, 07:15:27 pm »
Because you are.

Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.

I'm not "defending" them. Defending their constitutional rights, sure. But I despise them.

Because you are.

Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.

Well, I sort of am, but only insofar as I defend their right to the peaceful expression of their views because I want to ensure that I can do the same.

On the other hand, if they get their way, you won't be able to do the same.

Which is why I don't defend them any further and would exercise my free speech to speak against what they say.


Indeed. The best response to hate speech is not to suppress it, but to confront it.
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.