Author Topic: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit  (Read 15923 times)

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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2017, 08:43:35 am »
Uh, no.  People calling for a race war and the wholesale gassing of Jews deserve prison, at best, not a social or political platform.  I'm about to say something super unpopular, but fuck free speech if it means the swastika sporting vermin get to try and incite the inbred morons of my country to acts of mindless violence.  Back in high school, you'd get expelled for trying to incite a riot or other form of mass violence.  We have an equivalent of that and we should fucking well use it.
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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2017, 08:55:44 am »
There is a 500lbs gorilla in the room that everybody seem to conveniently ignore. Even the very loose interpretation of free speech the US goes with is not unrestricted. There is the classic 'yelling fire in a crowded theatre,' but you are also not allowed to threaten or incite violence.

Now, one could argue that calling for the suspension of rights and removal of any particular group is a defacto threat, but it's also a rabbit hole that is probably best left unexplored since taken to its extremes it could quash any discussion of rights. It's just words to say we don't want you here so we kind of begrudgingly have to accept it.

It's another matter entirely to say it with a weapon in your hand. That is a threat and you have no constitutional protections when you do that and there is absolutely no reason why society has to tolerate it. It is disingenuous to pretend protestors armed with guns and shields constitutes a legitimate expression of free speech.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2017, 09:55:19 am »
Yeaaaaaaaah...if they're an actual, literal torch-wielding mob, freeze peach don't fuckin matter.  It is a literal, actual, factual torch-fucking-wielding mob.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2017, 02:46:51 pm »
Well, unfortunately, thanks to this little thing known as the Second Amendment, armed mobs are rather tougher to deal with preemptively without violating civil liberties in the US than they would be in other countries.

Up here, I'd have no problem with a government seeking an injunction allowing police to confiscate weapons from protesters going to rallies that might turn violent.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2017, 03:31:45 pm »
Free speech has different definitions in different country. The Finnish definition for example is that no one should be pre-emptively silenced but there may be consequences to what you say.

Using the "shouting about a fire in a movie theater" example, you can shout that but afterwards you would be arrested for causing panic. You can also print lies in a magazine or demand a genocide and preventing these from happening beforehand is difficult but arresting and imprisoning the people who do so is not.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2017, 10:32:26 pm »
Well, unfortunately, thanks to this little thing known as the Second Amendment, armed mobs are rather tougher to deal with preemptively without violating civil liberties in the US than they would be in other countries.

Up here, I'd have no problem with a government seeking an injunction allowing police to confiscate weapons from protesters going to rallies that might turn violent.


Or, just put anyone that comes openly armed with things like torches, knives, and firearms in the drunk tank for the night.  You can assemble peacefully, but if you want to have an armed mob, you and your buddies can cool your cunts in a couple of jail cells for a while.  Repeat offenses are, of course, punishable by increasing amounts of bannination from normal people society.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2017, 03:02:21 am »
There's another elephant in the room, and that's that laws are not applied evenly by the powers. that be. In the US Trump defunded investigation into the far right. Contrast this with the DOJ's re opening of a case into a woman who laughed at Sessions in court. While Good Liberals(tm) clutch their pearls at Antifa meeting violence with violence the US federal government won't even devote resources into investigating fascist terror groups because that's a partisan issue. Apparently.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2017, 03:11:16 am »
If I clutch my pearls at Antifa meeting violence with violence, it's because even setting aside any moral convictions I might have about violence in general, if it comes down to violence between the left and the right, I KNOW WHO WILL WIN.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2017, 03:44:41 am »
Welp, the far right doesn't give a toss if you're in favor of peaceful solutions. They'll gas or lynch you regardless.

And if the law won't protect left wing protesters from the right what choice do they have but counter-violence?

Offline Svata

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2017, 04:00:25 am »
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2017, 04:46:42 am »
Welp, the far right doesn't give a toss if you're in favor of peaceful solutions. They'll gas or lynch you regardless.

And if the law won't protect left wing protesters from the right what choice do they have but counter-violence?

The far right doesn't. But the people who are more on the fringes and might have sympathies--but still have a conscience--do care. So when they see people on the left being peaceful, they realize which side they want to be on, but when both sides are violent, they stick with their original gut feeling, and the far right grows.

And, again, the left CANNOT let it come to violence. They cannot win in that scenario. If the image of the conflict becomes one of two violent factions, that will doom the left, because when it comes to violence the right will always beat the left, plus the right will gain sympathy because of the "violent leftists" attacking them. The left must be nonviolent or they cannot win the larger battle of ideas--and anyway, when you resort to violence, you're admitting that the only way you can get someone to admit to the correctness of your ideas is to beat them into it or kill them (in which case their opinion becomes irrelevant); essentially, an admission that you can't win in the realm of ideas.

Antifa is the single greatest gift the left could ever have given the right, because it undermines everything that the left stands for and undermines the case the left makes for its ideas, and justifies violence from the right in "self-defence."

The left cannot start the violence and cannot allow the debate to be settled by violence. If either is true, the left will lose.

And there's a key difference between WWII and now--WWII was a matter of foreign policy, while what's going on now is a domestic conflict.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2017, 07:58:41 am »
Dude, have you been paying attention?  It ain't the left that's "letting it come to violence," its the rather dubious gentlemen on the other end that have been forming ... oh, what was it?  Oh yeah!  Torch-wielding mobs.  Oh, and coming to protests armed like the Inbred Liberation Front.

You also seem to forget that all those weapons the morons have?  Yeah, we can buy em, too.  Being that we typically have just a little bit more money, we can afford more, if it comes down to it.

You're right about one thing, though: the Nazis are a domestic problem.  A domestic terrorist problem.  Oh, if only we had a place where we could send people who form armed mobs for the purpose of frightening a large portion of the populace.  Maybe made of concrete and steel, with bars on each room.  Too bad we don't have places like that scattered around like jacks.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2017, 09:13:09 am »
I have to point out that if you think that the violence from Nazis and the counter protestors is in any way comparable or that "everyone who doesn't like Nazis" can be considered a single group that is responsible for the worst of their members you clearly have not been paying attention.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2017, 09:47:00 am »
Well, unfortunately, thanks to this little thing known as the Second Amendment, armed mobs are rather tougher to deal with preemptively without violating civil liberties in the US than they would be in other countries.

Up here, I'd have no problem with a government seeking an injunction allowing police to confiscate weapons from protesters going to rallies that might turn violent.

I'm not sure it is really that difficult an issue to circumvent since the US can set up free speech zones and gun free zones. There is really nothing stopping a protest permit from having a no weapons clause in it.

It might make for some interesting challenges though.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Utterly legitimate and non farcical "antifa manual" found on Reddit
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2017, 02:19:09 pm »
Well, unfortunately, thanks to this little thing known as the Second Amendment, armed mobs are rather tougher to deal with preemptively without violating civil liberties in the US than they would be in other countries.

Up here, I'd have no problem with a government seeking an injunction allowing police to confiscate weapons from protesters going to rallies that might turn violent.


Or, just put anyone that comes openly armed with things like torches, knives, and firearms in the drunk tank for the night.  You can assemble peacefully, but if you want to have an armed mob, you and your buddies can cool your cunts in a couple of jail cells for a while.  Repeat offenses are, of course, punishable by increasing amounts of bannination from normal people society.

Direct question: do you think that standard should be applied across the board?

Welp, the far right doesn't give a toss if you're in favor of peaceful solutions. They'll gas or lynch you regardless.

And if the law won't protect left wing protesters from the right what choice do they have but counter-violence?

Okay, I have something to ask. You justify preemptive strikes against the alt-right because the police supposedly won't intervene. With that in mind, I have a direct question: do you have any evidence? And I mean evidence of this being a pattern, not the occasional incident.

I have to point out that if you think that the violence from Nazis and the counter protestors is in any way comparable or that "everyone who doesn't like Nazis" can be considered a single group that is responsible for the worst of their members you clearly have not been paying attention.

The latter, I agree with wholeheartedly. But I'd like to know what you mean by the former. How are they not comparable?
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