Author Topic: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting  (Read 9941 times)

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Offline Material Defender

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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2013, 10:14:29 am »
Fuck, man. You get upset over your girl breaking up with you, you talk it out with your buds. Maybe order out a pizza, take it out on a video game, or something. But shooting up people, especially where there was a similar shooting not that long ago?

Some say he got off light, but I beg to differ. This moron is about to find out that hell truly is other people. *sighs*What an IDIOT.

Silly, don't you know that's for pussys. In America, shooting up people is the answer.
This is the overall problem, we don't communicate with each other, because it's seen as being "weak', which leads to some jackass shooting up a mall,school, or whatnot.

My doctor gave me props for being brave enough to come to her to about my depression. It takes bravery to be seen as weak in society. Depression causes violence, homicidal thoughts are as frequent as suicidal. This all take a cultural shift, not a stance on 'guns' or anything.
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Offline Her3tiK

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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2013, 01:11:58 pm »
I've seen gun nuts claim that this wasn't on national headlines because it could be seen as pro-gun...

You'd really have to be grasping at straws to see this as 'pro-gun'. Yeah, the guy was stopped by the off-duty cop with a gun, but not before he'd injured two people. That could easily have been two people killed, three if the cop had killed the shooter.

And that's supposed to be a success story?
As far as one can consider anything like this 'successful', I would say so. While yes, it may be possible to stop a shooter before they manage to hit someone, this would require some pretty accurate and quick responses from anyone nearby, and that's assuming they figure out what's going on before the first victim drops. Also, consider that the person shooting back has been trained to do so, instead of some bumblefuck with a hero complex.

I'd say this is a victory for both sides. Pro-gun people are right that another person with a gun stopped the shooting, gun regulation because the person in question was trained to react in such situations, and carried the necessary license to do so.
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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2013, 03:47:38 pm »
I've seen gun nuts claim that this wasn't on national headlines because it could be seen as pro-gun... despite the fact that this is ideal circumstances for someone to stop a shooting in this manner.

I know you said something about ratings, which could be true.  As far as I'm concerned, I kinda fear that this isn't so much "pro-gun" as it is "pro-vigilante."  The last thing we need are more shootings where someone thinks they're being a hero by trying to stop an incident that they perceive as dangerous  with a gun, whether or not the situation really  is dangerous.
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Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2013, 10:58:10 pm »
I've seen gun nuts claim that this wasn't on national headlines because it could be seen as pro-gun... despite the fact that this is ideal circumstances for someone to stop a shooting in this manner.

I know you said something about ratings, which could be true.  As far as I'm concerned, I kinda fear that this isn't so much "pro-gun" as it is "pro-vigilante."  The last thing we need are more shootings where someone thinks they're being a hero by trying to stop an incident that they perceive as dangerous  with a gun, whether or not the situation really  is dangerous.

Well, the thing is that the woman who stopped the shooter wasn't a vigilante, she was an off-duty officer. That said, I have also seen pro-gun people cite actual vigilante successes and claim that they don't make national headlines because the "liberal media" doesn't want it to. In other words, you are otherwise saying something that I agree with.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 11:05:56 pm by Wolf Lord Waldorf X »
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2013, 03:36:29 pm »
To some people, an off-duty cop (emphasis on off-duty) is still a vigilante, regardless of any other factors (such as specifically being trained to uphold the law and not just being someone with a gun and a good cause)
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Offline Stormwarden

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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2013, 12:41:36 am »
Kind of surprised no one has brought up Bernhardt Goetz (google it). I often use the name as an example of what NOT to do with concealed carry, due to his infamous actions.


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Offline Askold

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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2013, 09:43:22 am »
Kind of surprised no one has brought up Bernhardt Goetz (google it). I often use the name as an example of what NOT to do with concealed carry, due to his infamous actions.

First I confused him with "Götz von Berlichingen" because of the similar name, and he also had rather infamous deeds.

...And I suppose having a literally "iron hand" also makes him a bad case for concealed carry...


Seriously though, I have heard about this Goetz as well and I am not quite sure what to think about it. He said the he had been mugged before and I can believe that he felt threatened in that situation, while I can also believe that those did not mean to intimidate him that much and he misunderstood their attempt to beg for money as a demand for money... And was that last shot justified? (Wether it was necessary is a different matter form did he think if it was necessary) I suppose the whole situation might have been saved if he had simply used the gun to threaten them to back off... But if they would have charged him or had guns (HE didn't know.) Bah. Too many assumptions.

This is complicated and I am glad I am not a judge. Also glad that I have never been in such a situation.
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Offline nickiknack

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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2013, 07:02:15 pm »
Kind of surprised no one has brought up Bernhardt Goetz (google it). I often use the name as an example of what NOT to do with concealed carry, due to his infamous actions.

You know the sad thing is that I have relatives who act like he's some kind hero.  :(
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Offline wyvern999

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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2013, 08:21:16 pm »


Silly, don't you know that's for pussys. In America, shooting up people is the answer.
This is the overall problem, we don't communicate with each other, because it's seen as being "weak', which leads to some jackass shooting up a mall,school, or whatnot.

He was communicating through the medium of bullets. A very popular medium judging by the amount of "communicating" that goes on.

Offline Stormwarden

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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2013, 12:53:48 am »
askold: I never envy the job of the judge. They have to balance the facts and the law, and hold a person's fate in their very hands. I don;t envy the roles of the prosecutor or the defense attorney for the same reason. Most of the time, a judge can get by because the jury takes away the most important decision and leaves him to sentencing and refereeing. Every now and then, though, you get a bench trial (where the defense waives the right to trial by jury), and those are the cases that leave a judge awake at night.

Before I continue: Empress Nicki, what is that THING that's upside-down behind Palpatine in your sig?

Right, back on topic. Goetz is less a hero, and more a cautionary tale. A reminder of the responsibility of concealed carry, and the importance of sound decision making.


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Offline Askold

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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2013, 03:16:35 am »
Stormwarden:
I know that it is like that in USA but in Finland the "jury" (called lay-judges) is much smaller, 0-7 members depending on the level of the court. So in minor cases it is just the judge decidin on things and even in the higher level courts it is just a few judges and the lay-judges who decide.

Also, the lay judges are elected, must be a proper representation of the local demographic and may serve for years. And they can't be police, lawyers or otherwise connected to law enforcement or legal matter so that they are impartial.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline nickiknack

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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2013, 12:03:23 pm »
Before I continue: Empress Nicki, what is that THING that's upside-down behind Palpatine in your sig?

It's General Grievous, the scene is from the episode where Palpatine is "kidnapped" in Star Wars:Clone Wars

Offline Jack Mann

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Re: Off-Duty Cop stops another Aurora, CO Shooting
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2013, 01:47:59 pm »
To be entirely fair to Goetz, Cabey later admitted that he and his friends intended to rob him. 
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