Author Topic: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral  (Read 22513 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kat S.

  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 388
  • Gender: Female
  • Repentant sinner, unrepentant knowledge junkie
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2014, 05:49:46 pm »
These people will claim to plan a protest to get a funeral of some major celebrity to gain attention so they can tell us how they think we're going to Hell.  Their message isn't consistent anyway, and neither are their protesting at funerals.  They claimed they were going to picket the funerals Ronnie James Dio, Whitney Houston, the Sandy Hook massacre victims, the Boston Marathon Bombing victims, and others, and they ultimately didn't. 

I believe that the WBC's ultimate aim is to break our will, and get us to serve them by following their interpretation of Christianity.  The goal is immensely selfish, but they don't care since they say that the teachings of Fred Phelps, uh, I mean Jesus Christ* apparently told them that they can do that.  Then, they claim persecution because people disagree with them and how they protest. 

Gosh, if they wanted to persecuted so bad, how about they go to northern Iraq and eastern Syria? A lot of non-Muslim persecution is going on there.  Yes, WBC, we all know you think we're going to Hell, so how about you move on to other countries that haven't banned you and tell them how you think of their salvation?

Final PROTIP on any WBC member lurking the internet and this forum:  Persecution is something you won't enjoy or fondly remember with a smile on your face and with pride that it happened to you.  You are not being persecuted for your beliefs.

*As interpreted by the lead male member at the WBC currently.

Offline Nemo

  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2014, 10:56:06 am »
Bear in mind, the WBC are Calvinists. As in, Vincent Cheung style Calvinists. They don't think they can convince us of anything. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. Their job is to preach, and if we are of the elect, the Holy Spirit will make us believe. If not, the Holy Spirit will make us disbelieve. When you understand this cornerstone of hyper Calvinism, what the WBC does makes a lot more sense.
"If it's white or Jewish then they're criminals, if it's two brown people killing each other ... meh, that's their culture and we should respect it ... cultural relativists should be ashamed of themselves." - Faisal Saeed Al Mutar

Offline lord gibbon

  • That Weird Guy in the Corner
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 868
  • Gender: Male
  • living trivia machine
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2014, 06:11:39 pm »
Calvinism always struck me as the most logical and the most terrifying branch of Christianity. I mean, let's face it, an all-knowing, all-powerful god WOULD know ahead of time what was going to happen to each soul.
Excuse me, sir, do you have a minute to talk about your lord and savior, Hannibal Barca?

Quote from: Seneca
Religion is regarded by the common man as true, by the wise man as false, and by the powerful man as useful
Yeah, if the pagans are so smart, why did Jesus invade Pagan-land on the back of a dragon and kill them all!

Offline Sigmaleph

  • Ungodlike
  • Administrator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3615
    • sigmaleph on tumblr
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2014, 08:16:38 pm »
Calvinism always struck me as the most logical and the most terrifying branch of Christianity. I mean, let's face it, an all-knowing, all-powerful god WOULD know ahead of time what was going to happen to each soul.

Yes, but this is a god that's also supposed to be benevolent and yet decides that most souls are going to be damned and will be tortured forever.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 09:18:21 pm by Sigmaleph »
Σא

Art Vandelay

  • Guest
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2014, 09:11:48 pm »
Calvinism always struck me as the most logical and the most terrifying branch of Christianity. I mean, let's face it, an all-knowing, all-powerful god WOULD know ahead of time what was going to happen to each soul.

Yes, but this is a god that's also supposed to be benevolent and yet decides that most souls are going to be damned and are will be tortured forever.

It's Christianity. The bar isn't set particularly high when it comes to logic.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2014, 09:25:33 pm »
Calvinism always struck me as the most logical and the most terrifying branch of Christianity. I mean, let's face it, an all-knowing, all-powerful god WOULD know ahead of time what was going to happen to each soul.

Yes, but this is a god that's also supposed to be benevolent and yet decides that most souls are going to be damned and are will be tortured forever.

It's Christianity. The bar isn't set particularly high when it comes to logic.
*Ahem*











And just for the record, I think most people are destined for heaven.

Art Vandelay

  • Guest
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2014, 09:50:34 pm »
Argument from authority. Very convincing.
And just for the record, I think most people are destined for heaven.
Unless you've got some new logically sound proof that heaven exists in the first place that I haven't yet heard of, well, this doesn't exactly help your case.

Offline Ironchew

  • Official Edgelord
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1888
  • Gender: Male
  • The calm, intellectual Trotsky-like Trotskyist
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2014, 09:51:17 pm »
It's Christianity. The bar isn't set particularly high when it comes to logic.
*Ahem*

-snip-

And just for the record, I think most people are destined for heaven.

Yeah, no. The Bible isn't even a consistent document, much less one that consistently follows any sort of internal logic.

I don't believe heaven exists, so that consolation doesn't really work for me.
Consumption is not a politically combative act — refraining from consumption even less so.

Offline Witchyjoshy

  • SHITLORD THUNDERBASTARD!!
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9044
  • Gender: Male
  • Thinks he's a bard
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2014, 10:50:28 pm »
And no offense, but even if Christian Heaven was real, I really wouldn't want to go there.

I don't want to spend all eternity sucking up to a god like that.
Mockery of ideas you don't comprehend or understand is the surest mark of unintelligence.

Even the worst union is better than the best Walmart.

Caladur's Active Character Sheet

Offline niam2023

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4213
  • Gender: Male
  • The Forum Chad
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2014, 11:01:12 pm »
Personally, I don't think humans will ever really, en masse, flock to the logic and reason the two of you prefer. Humans are creatures who prefer comfort, thought processes that are ingrained and easy to reference. They will prefer to remain shrouded in a fog, unwilling to abandon past superstitions, because there is no comfort or reassurance in logic. It doesn't matter WHAT religion you follow, the basic truth remains - humans vastly prefer an immaterial promise to material rationality.

Regardless what kind of logical fallacies you try to point out, or argument types you outline, people won't care. Simply because they'd prefer to believe they're going to a better place than this, they want to abandon their responsibilities and live according to a lawful decree that they are very familiar with.

And ultimately, its a pretty sweet deal. There is no "Christian Church" - there are so many sects and groups, you can pick and choose based on your own individual needs. So, fundamentally, human need and thought shapes the God they worship. In essence, it is their moral standard and ethic they worship. And they would prefer to believe there is an ultimate figure enforcing this moral ethic, than simply trying to live by it alone, because then, they wouldn't have anyone to implore for assistance when their morals and ethics prove incapable of handling a certain situation.

There are even those that are nondenominational, and live by their own interpretations of their holy book and assume that their god is aligned with the rationality and outcome dictated by their interpretation.

So, regardless what you try to frame your ultimate rationality and logic as, a large number of humans will simply prefer to live shrouded in mist of their own design, to assure themselves they have a higher power on their side, which agrees with their personal morality. It does not matter if its real, or provable according to reason or science, because they believe that their mind and belief makes it real and able to be experienced, because in their minds, simply finding solace in their personal morality makes it something able to be experienced and "proven".

If there is anything, ironchew and Art, that you've neglected, it is this truth.
Living Life, Lifting, Waiting for Summer

Offline Ironchew

  • Official Edgelord
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1888
  • Gender: Male
  • The calm, intellectual Trotsky-like Trotskyist
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2014, 11:11:46 pm »
If there is anything, ironchew and Art, that you've neglected, it is this truth.

It does not matter if its real...

Those are contradictory. Pick one.

I care about the truth of my beliefs and I strive to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible. It is as you say that many people prefer to believe fuzzy feel-good things that are not true (and oftentimes even demonstrably false), but I do not respect their decision to do so. There is no reality check on someone that doesn't care about the truth, and the fact that they indoctrinate little kids and damage their ability to distinguish fantasy from reality is truly frightening to me. Violent extremism naturally springs from such a mentality when you add a few generations.
Consumption is not a politically combative act — refraining from consumption even less so.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2014, 11:17:48 pm »
If there is anything, ironchew and Art, that you've neglected, it is this truth.

It does not matter if its real...

Those are contradictory. Pick one.

I care about the truth of my beliefs and I strive to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible. It is as you say that many people prefer to believe fuzzy feel-good things that are not true (and oftentimes even demonstrably false), but I do not respect their decision to do so. There is no reality check on someone that doesn't care about the truth, and the fact that they indoctrinate little kids and damage their ability to distinguish fantasy from reality is truly frightening to me. Violent extremism naturally springs from such a mentality when you add a few generations.
That's so wrong, I don't know where to begin.

Offline davedan

  • Lord Cracker
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3539

Offline Sigmaleph

  • Ungodlike
  • Administrator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3615
    • sigmaleph on tumblr
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2014, 12:04:23 am »
It's Christianity. The bar isn't set particularly high when it comes to logic.
*Ahem*

[pictures snipped]

Nobody denies that some Christians were in fact very smart people (one might quibble on the examples, but the general idea is sound). That has very little to do with whether Christianity is logical.

@niam: Some people do care about reason and logic and truth, and most of the rest at least pay lip service to the idea. It is an empirical fact that people have left religion at least partially thanks to rational argument.

I care about the truth of my beliefs and I strive to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible. It is as you say that many people prefer to believe fuzzy feel-good things that are not true (and oftentimes even demonstrably false), but I do not respect their decision to do so. There is no reality check on someone that doesn't care about the truth, and the fact that they indoctrinate little kids and damage their ability to distinguish fantasy from reality is truly frightening to me. Violent extremism naturally springs from such a mentality when you add a few generations.
That's so wrong, I don't know where to begin.

What part do you object to? Because "believing true things is good, believing false things is dangerous" strikes me as both obviously true and largely non-controversial. I'll grant that the "violent extremism" part is an unsupported generalization, but that hardly merits a blanket "so wrong I can't even"  response.

Seriously, guys, stop making me have to side with Ironchew.
Σא

Offline niam2023

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4213
  • Gender: Male
  • The Forum Chad
Re: WBC plans to picket Robin Williams funeral
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2014, 12:08:04 am »
If there is anything, ironchew and Art, that you've neglected, it is this truth.

It does not matter if its real...

Those are contradictory. Pick one.

I care about the truth of my beliefs and I strive to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible. It is as you say that many people prefer to believe fuzzy feel-good things that are not true (and oftentimes even demonstrably false), but I do not respect their decision to do so. There is no reality check on someone that doesn't care about the truth, and the fact that they indoctrinate little kids and damage their ability to distinguish fantasy from reality is truly frightening to me. Violent extremism naturally springs from such a mentality when you add a few generations.

It does not appear to be contradictory - the truth is people prefer falsehoods to any platitude you may offer, regardless what logical fallacy comes with their falsehood.

You have some honest believers, but the stupid ones, like David Stewart, cannot conceive of a world where their moral standard does not apply to everyone, so they imagine an ultimate force who CAN demand such a thing.

And it equally does not matter that you do not respect their decision to seek comfort there, with their fogged views of the world, whether the fog be rosy or dreary. Because ultimately, all you do is shout logical fallacy and your own personal platitudes at them, and to these people, what you offer resembles what they already have, except you define what is true, what is reasonable, and what is good. To these people who live according to their own definitions, it is not only feasible but most likely that they see little or no difference between people who believe as you do and the god they worship - and given their religion's stance on such things, no small wonder they reject your viewpoints more strongly as time goes on.

To them, all you are is a newer fog that offers different explanations.

While some people, as Sigmaleph has said, have mustered enough confidence to leave, those who need an ultimate source of morality to justify their dated opinions will probably never leave.
Living Life, Lifting, Waiting for Summer