Author Topic: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?  (Read 17947 times)

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Offline R. U. Sirius

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2012, 03:11:46 pm »
Does anyone want this thread to become a flame war?  Let's don't and say we did.

Fuck you!  ;D
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Offline Veras

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2012, 04:04:39 pm »
Does anyone want this thread to become a flame war?  Let's don't and say we did.

Fuck you!  ;D

Yeah, the popcorn I made is going to go to waste now! >:(
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Offline SpaceProg

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2012, 06:26:15 pm »
Hey, he smiled when he said it.  I take it as a compliment.   Or a proposition.

Offline Veras

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2012, 10:21:56 pm »
I'm hoping for proposition.  Again, I have popcorn, and I need something to watch.

And please hurry, it's getting cold.
RIP Tony Benn (1925 - 2014)

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“If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people.”

"I'm not frightened about death. I don't know why, but I just feel that at a certain moment your switch is switched off, and that's it. And you can't do anything about it."

Offline SpaceProg

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2012, 11:07:50 pm »
Wakka chow, wakka chow.

Offline Sylvana

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2012, 04:41:06 am »

That said, the heavily religious community is having it's own issues. I've come across a few articles highlighting issues that African American women involved in church are having rather difficult times getting married, as the men are expected to fit both categories as well. So the trend may not hold a great deal longer.

I am confused by what exactly you mean here.
From my experience, in Africa, the African people can be a bit strange when it comes to religion. In a number of cases there is a strange mix of their older superstitions mixed with a fanatical devotion to Christianity. The same people who would kill a female child for being a witch because Christianity tells them to, will also see a sangoma (witch doctor) for a traditional remedy. Often in many of the more rural areas, the mix of original culture and Christianity is less with a higher focus on Christianity. I would probably attribute this to the often fundamentalist colonial farmers and such in those areas which would have forced Christianity on them, and with nothing to persuade them otherwise they stick to it.

All in all though, I notice a mix in the African religions. A lot of their old traditional superstitions persist, but under the trappings of Christianity. However I am disinclined to say, like in the opening post, that they are more religious than the whites here. The whole country has a depressingly high level of fundamentalist style religious nature.

Offline TheReasonator

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2012, 06:49:31 am »
I would probably attribute this to the often fundamentalist colonial farmers and such in those areas which would have forced Christianity on them, and with nothing to persuade them otherwise they stick to it.

The "it was forced by colonial farmers" thing isn't persuasive?

If I was in slavery or servitude of any kind or my ancestors were and they got out of it I would personally want to disassociate with everything that had to do with my overlords unless there was a very compelling reason to hold on to it. I'd go as far as to say that if I had been born into a Christian family in the Baltic states which were historically forced to convert to Christianity from the outside(it wasn't their own king converting and making the subjects convert with him, it was the Teutons) I would likely have rejected Christianity and even explored the traditional pagan religions and their histories, perhaps even tried to revive one. I just don't like the idea of being dominated or oppressed, even indirectly through history.

It sucks because I empathize so greatly with any black people out there who feel the same way, but I'm white. If I was black I'd probably be out there personally trying to encourage "countercolonialism" in Africa and "counterassimilation" at home. I would be stressing that as long as we cling to European ideas like homophobia we are letting them enslave and colonize our minds. I would be vocally confronting African leaders who denounce "homosexuality" as "unafrican" telling them that "homophobia" comes from Europeans. In a class on black radical thought I read a book by an author who was actually saying blacks should leave Christianity because it was enforced by white people, though he also says that Islam is unafrican too because it comes from Arabs and so is not authentically African. Yet even he denounces homosexuality as "unafrican" in spite of the fact that homophobia was imposed from the West, and opposing homosexuality undermines African unity in a way because there are African tribes that not only support homosexuality but elevate it to a special spiritual status.

It just strikes me as odd that people can be comfortable holding ideas and beliefs they know were basically forced upon their people. I suppose I can understand black people being Christians given that not all of the religion supported slavery or colonialism or forced conversion, but that it is actually higher suggests a sort of passive submissiveness among some black people as to the formation of their identities.

Offline Sylvana

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2012, 07:50:35 am »
It just strikes me as odd that people can be comfortable holding ideas and beliefs they know were basically forced upon their people. I suppose I can understand black people being Christians given that not all of the religion supported slavery or colonialism or forced conversion, but that it is actually higher suggests a sort of passive submissiveness among some black people as to the formation of their identities.

You are forgetting human nature.
When you are brought up believing in something and your parents were brought up believing in something and neither of you even experienced the rod that your grandparents felt while being forced to believe it it is easier to just accept it. They may have hated slavery, but conditioning from childhood sticks. Especially when they never experienced adverse effects themselves from that conditioning. If anything the conditioning is stronger because that original fear of punishment forced a strong belief, and to protect their children a similarly strong belief was instilled in them. Over the generations, that strength of belief has been propagated even though the original reason for it has been removed. (I would also like to point out that the previous mentioned points about churches being communities where they felt safe, and such are also applicable.)

To say that Africans should be anti-colonialism is rather silly. Did the colonial whites do a great disservice to Africans? Yes they did. However to denounce everything that came along with the colonists would mean regressing into a primitive tribalist race. Slavery sucked, but modern medicine, farming techniques and especially guns were all part of that slavery package. To abandon everything that came from the west just because those original colonists enslaved and degraded the people is ludicrous and wishful thinking.

You seem to think that freedom from slavery was based on a pure black on white hatred. While hate plays a part, the Africans desired freedom from slavery not because they hated their masters and everything they and their culture stood for, but because they wanted those luxuries for themselves, even if they had to oppress their fellow Africans to get it. This is evidenced all over post-colonial Africa and in particular Zimbabwe and South Africa. Politicians from African countries, like to use anti-west rhetoric to remain in power while at the very same time doing to their supporters the same indignities of the western colonists and enjoying the best luxuries that the west has to offer.

Offline TheReasonator

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2012, 08:53:38 am »
It just strikes me as odd that people can be comfortable holding ideas and beliefs they know were basically forced upon their people. I suppose I can understand black people being Christians given that not all of the religion supported slavery or colonialism or forced conversion, but that it is actually higher suggests a sort of passive submissiveness among some black people as to the formation of their identities.

You are forgetting human nature.
When you are brought up believing in something and your parents were brought up believing in something and neither of you even experienced the rod that your grandparents felt while being forced to believe it it is easier to just accept it. They may have hated slavery, but conditioning from childhood sticks. Especially when they never experienced adverse effects themselves from that conditioning. If anything the conditioning is stronger because that original fear of punishment forced a strong belief, and to protect their children a similarly strong belief was instilled in them. Over the generations, that strength of belief has been propagated even though the original reason for it has been removed. (I would also like to point out that the previous mentioned points about churches being communities where they felt safe, and such are also applicable.)

To say that Africans should be anti-colonialism is rather silly. Did the colonial whites do a great disservice to Africans? Yes they did. However to denounce everything that came along with the colonists would mean regressing into a primitive tribalist race. Slavery sucked, but modern medicine, farming techniques and especially guns were all part of that slavery package. To abandon everything that came from the west just because those original colonists enslaved and degraded the people is ludicrous and wishful thinking.

You seem to think that freedom from slavery was based on a pure black on white hatred. While hate plays a part, the Africans desired freedom from slavery not because they hated their masters and everything they and their culture stood for, but because they wanted those luxuries for themselves, even if they had to oppress their fellow Africans to get it. This is evidenced all over post-colonial Africa and in particular Zimbabwe and South Africa. Politicians from African countries, like to use anti-west rhetoric to remain in power while at the very same time doing to their supporters the same indignities of the western colonists and enjoying the best luxuries that the west has to offer.

I said unless there was a good reason. Clearly keeping modern medicine has a good reason. Christianity? No good reason. Homophobia? No good reason. The sorts of innovations that have good reasons are the sort that any reasonable people would've came up with themselves (left alone Africans would've at some point invented modern medicine, though maybe not at the same time).

Although I see your point about human nature. I know I'm quite different, it seems like any time I read something about human nature I'm like "really? But I'm a human."

Offline DiscoBerry

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2012, 09:52:06 pm »
I actually think this is an interesting question. Best guess, Western attitudes achieved dominance long enough to become the new norm. And there has been some pushback - the Nation of Islam might be an example.

You know, I've always find it funny when someone from the NOI tells me my name is a slave name and I have to remind them that Arabs plundered Africa for slaves long before Western Europeans.

In Tanzania there were slave trading posts Arabs used until the 1920s

Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2012, 11:20:24 pm »
It just strikes me as odd that people can be comfortable holding ideas and beliefs they know were basically forced upon their people. I suppose I can understand black people being Christians given that not all of the religion supported slavery or colonialism or forced conversion, but that it is actually higher suggests a sort of passive submissiveness among some black people as to the formation of their identities.

You are forgetting human nature.
When you are brought up believing in something and your parents were brought up believing in something and neither of you even experienced the rod that your grandparents felt while being forced to believe it it is easier to just accept it. They may have hated slavery, but conditioning from childhood sticks. Especially when they never experienced adverse effects themselves from that conditioning. If anything the conditioning is stronger because that original fear of punishment forced a strong belief, and to protect their children a similarly strong belief was instilled in them. Over the generations, that strength of belief has been propagated even though the original reason for it has been removed. (I would also like to point out that the previous mentioned points about churches being communities where they felt safe, and such are also applicable.)

To say that Africans should be anti-colonialism is rather silly. Did the colonial whites do a great disservice to Africans? Yes they did. However to denounce everything that came along with the colonists would mean regressing into a primitive tribalist race. Slavery sucked, but modern medicine, farming techniques and especially guns were all part of that slavery package. To abandon everything that came from the west just because those original colonists enslaved and degraded the people is ludicrous and wishful thinking.

You seem to think that freedom from slavery was based on a pure black on white hatred. While hate plays a part, the Africans desired freedom from slavery not because they hated their masters and everything they and their culture stood for, but because they wanted those luxuries for themselves, even if they had to oppress their fellow Africans to get it. This is evidenced all over post-colonial Africa and in particular Zimbabwe and South Africa. Politicians from African countries, like to use anti-west rhetoric to remain in power while at the very same time doing to their supporters the same indignities of the western colonists and enjoying the best luxuries that the west has to offer.

I said unless there was a good reason. Clearly keeping modern medicine has a good reason. Christianity? No good reason. Homophobia? No good reason. The sorts of innovations that have good reasons are the sort that any reasonable people would've came up with themselves (left alone Africans would've at some point invented modern medicine, though maybe not at the same time).

Although I see your point about human nature. I know I'm quite different, it seems like any time I read something about human nature I'm like "really? But I'm a human."
You seem to forget that people need something to hate and something to believe in, so there are reasons for keeping Christianity and homophobia around.

Offline TheReasonator

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2012, 04:30:29 pm »
It just strikes me as odd that people can be comfortable holding ideas and beliefs they know were basically forced upon their people. I suppose I can understand black people being Christians given that not all of the religion supported slavery or colonialism or forced conversion, but that it is actually higher suggests a sort of passive submissiveness among some black people as to the formation of their identities.

You are forgetting human nature.
When you are brought up believing in something and your parents were brought up believing in something and neither of you even experienced the rod that your grandparents felt while being forced to believe it it is easier to just accept it. They may have hated slavery, but conditioning from childhood sticks. Especially when they never experienced adverse effects themselves from that conditioning. If anything the conditioning is stronger because that original fear of punishment forced a strong belief, and to protect their children a similarly strong belief was instilled in them. Over the generations, that strength of belief has been propagated even though the original reason for it has been removed. (I would also like to point out that the previous mentioned points about churches being communities where they felt safe, and such are also applicable.)

To say that Africans should be anti-colonialism is rather silly. Did the colonial whites do a great disservice to Africans? Yes they did. However to denounce everything that came along with the colonists would mean regressing into a primitive tribalist race. Slavery sucked, but modern medicine, farming techniques and especially guns were all part of that slavery package. To abandon everything that came from the west just because those original colonists enslaved and degraded the people is ludicrous and wishful thinking.

You seem to think that freedom from slavery was based on a pure black on white hatred. While hate plays a part, the Africans desired freedom from slavery not because they hated their masters and everything they and their culture stood for, but because they wanted those luxuries for themselves, even if they had to oppress their fellow Africans to get it. This is evidenced all over post-colonial Africa and in particular Zimbabwe and South Africa. Politicians from African countries, like to use anti-west rhetoric to remain in power while at the very same time doing to their supporters the same indignities of the western colonists and enjoying the best luxuries that the west has to offer.

I said unless there was a good reason. Clearly keeping modern medicine has a good reason. Christianity? No good reason. Homophobia? No good reason. The sorts of innovations that have good reasons are the sort that any reasonable people would've came up with themselves (left alone Africans would've at some point invented modern medicine, though maybe not at the same time).

Although I see your point about human nature. I know I'm quite different, it seems like any time I read something about human nature I'm like "really? But I'm a human."
You seem to forget that people need something to hate and something to believe in, so there are reasons for keeping Christianity and homophobia around.

I would love a world with nothing to hate.
Am I not a person?

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2012, 04:38:37 pm »
I'm pretty sure you hate things.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2012, 06:02:26 pm »
I'm pretty sure you hate things.
In a world with nothing to get riled up about, I'm pretty sure he would hate being bored.

Offline TheReasonator

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Re: Why Are Black People Christian More Often Than Other People?
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2012, 12:40:15 am »
I'm pretty sure you hate things.

Sure I do. But it would be great if all those things weren't problems.

I'm pretty sure you hate things.
In a world with nothing to get riled up about, I'm pretty sure he would hate being bored.

There'd be plenty to be riled up about. Parties, fireworks festivals, trips, trips, sex, ...

There's plenty of "love" to get riled up about and the world could focus more on that once there's not all these problems in the world.