Fanfiction Is the Darndest Thing

[PosthumanHeresy]

Fix-fics are sometimes amazing. For example, the Buffy fic "I Am What I Am", which is also yet another Halloween fic. Xander goes as himself, but older. After it ends, he still has all of old-Xander's memories. So he knows everything that is going to happen and starts using that to change it.

[nickiknack]

And then there's Christian fic, where the characters act like they've never heard of God before, but once they do, it's all they want! Writers of Christian fics are rather thin skinned so it's hard to find some of their works. here's a few titles:

How Can I Go On?: Sailor Moon fic. No transformations or talking cats. Serena is converted to Christianity by her new friends and is so happy she doesn't care that she's later raped and impregnated. It's all God's plan, after all! Includes a scene of Serena praying in front of a prom dress.

Harry Potter Turns to the Lord: Harry Potter goes flying on his broomstick, has an accident and is helped out by a Muggle. Muggle tells Harry all about Jesus and gives him a Bible to read. Harry thinks the Bible "makes sense" and snaps his wand in half, vowing never to do witchcraft again. No mention made of You-Know-Who

The Prayer Ponies: Charity Sue gets Twilight Sparkle to convert two minutes after meeting her. This causes Twilight to lose all her friends including her beloved mentor, but that's OK! Charity Sue and Jesus are the only friends she needs! Includes a BLAM where Fluttershy goes mountain climbing.

Not fics, but there is this person who does these various Star Wars characters convert to Jesus artwork on DA, and every time someone comments that they're being a bit too in your face with their religion, this person flips their shit.

As to what annoys me in fics, I like to call them Professor AU fics, where the said character is made a professor, and you're the student, and both of you are fucking. No real reason other than I've seen just way too many of them.

[wrightway]

And then there's Christian fic, where the characters act like they've never heard of God before, but once they do, it's all they want! Writers of Christian fics are rather thin skinned so it's hard to find some of their works. here's a few titles:

How Can I Go On?: Sailor Moon fic. No transformations or talking cats. Serena is converted to Christianity by her new friends and is so happy she doesn't care that she's later raped and impregnated. It's all God's plan, after all! Includes a scene of Serena praying in front of a prom dress.

Harry Potter Turns to the Lord: Harry Potter goes flying on his broomstick, has an accident and is helped out by a Muggle. Muggle tells Harry all about Jesus and gives him a Bible to read. Harry thinks the Bible "makes sense" and snaps his wand in half, vowing never to do witchcraft again. No mention made of You-Know-Who

The Prayer Ponies: Charity Sue gets Twilight Sparkle to convert two minutes after meeting her. This causes Twilight to lose all her friends including her beloved mentor, but that's OK! Charity Sue and Jesus are the only friends she needs! Includes a BLAM where Fluttershy goes mountain climbing.

These are in every fandom. I've seen an X-men fic where Beast, BEAST, spouts the reasons the bible is scientifically acurate.

[TheUnknown]

Another thing that annoys me is the issue with Mary Sues, specifically the growing attitude of "people need to stop using it because it's sexist/overused/unfair."  Is the term Mary Sue overused?  Absolutely.  Does it seem to unfairly target female characters at times?  Yes.  However, this seems to have caused a growing trend among fic writers and OC makers to downright dismiss it, as if to say that because Mary Sue is overused, it doesn't really exist at all so I can just ignore any and all criticisms if they happen to use that word.  Some also insist that if their character isn't in a relationship with a canon character or isn't a blatant self-insert, they can't be a Mary Sue.

I've also seen people argue that it's impossible for canon characters inside actual canon to be Mary Sues because "if it happens in the canon universe, then that's how it's supposed to be and is not considered warping."  I strongly disagree.  I know that doesn't apply to fics, but it's another argument against the Mary Sue term that I hate.  I'll get into actual Possession Sues (canon characters becoming Sues in fics) some other time.

[wrightway]

There was a Mary Sue calculator to try and help writers decide if their OC was a Mary Sue. It did note some people are really that awesome, though. Bono scores an 87 out of a 100 on that test, putting him firmly into Sue territory.

[PosthumanHeresy]

There was a Mary Sue calculator to try and help writers decide if their OC was a Mary Sue. It did note some people are really that awesome, though. Bono scores an 87 out of a 100 on that test, putting him firmly into Sue territory.

The one test I found went well over 100, so it isn't that, and a real person one I found doesn't go to 100, so I'd love a link to the one you're talking about. Marilyn Manson, Till Lindemann and Trent Reznor are all Gary Stus according to the one I found for real people. Which, actually, seems about right.

[TheUnknown]

There was a Mary Sue calculator to try and help writers decide if their OC was a Mary Sue. It did note some people are really that awesome, though. Bono scores an 87 out of a 100 on that test, putting him firmly into Sue territory.

The Mary Sue litmus test is another thing people use to try and discredit the term.  The problem with the litmus test is that I don't think it takes into account the universe being used and the way the character is used and written.  To me, a fic Mary Sue is a character that affects it's chosen world in a way it shouldn't (this really doesn't apply to canon Sues, since that's more a problem of the universe itself rather than just the character).

I know that's probably not what you intended when you wrote this post, but I have seen people try to say the term is flawed because some random test on the internet said *insert popular character here* was a Sue.  I don't think it just comes down to specific traits; there has to be a context to those traits, which is why most people don't consider *popular character* a blatant Sue.

[wrightway]

There was a Mary Sue calculator to try and help writers decide if their OC was a Mary Sue. It did note some people are really that awesome, though. Bono scores an 87 out of a 100 on that test, putting him firmly into Sue territory.

The Mary Sue litmus test is another thing people use to try and discredit the term.  The problem with the litmus test is that I don't think it takes into account the universe being used and the way the character is used and written.  To me, a fic Mary Sue is a character that affects it's chosen world in a way it shouldn't (this really doesn't apply to canon Sues, since that's more a problem of the universe itself rather than just the character).

I know that's probably not what you intended when you wrote this post, but I have seen people try to say the term is flawed because some random test on the internet said *insert popular character here* was a Sue.  I don't think it just comes down to specific traits; there has to be a context to those traits, which is why most people don't consider *popular character* a blatant Sue.

Daryl Dixon of the Walking Dead proves your point beautifully. He's become a Gary Stu of the highest caliber.

Also, oddly, Carol from the same show. Her between season growth, and role as "Only woman Daryl gives two flying fucks about", has pushed her into Sue territory.

[Patches]

I generally don't define a Mary-Sue by an objective litmus test of qualities since what's considered a "Sue" can be very context-dependent.  Instead I define a Sue by how they rate on the following question:

"How closely does my actual opinion of this character align with how the author seems to want me to feel about this character?"

If my opinion of the character aligns with the story's:
> 75% of the time = great character
50%-75% of the time = good character
25%-50% of the time = okay character
< 25% of the time = bad character
0% of the time = Mary Sue

Note that this is only for when audience opinion of a character is less than what the story asks for.  When the audience opinion is greater than what the story asks for, it's an Ensemble Darkhorse.

In short: A Mary-Sue is the greatest possible distance between the author's opinion of a character and the audience's.

[TheUnknown]

Before we get off the subject of Mary Sues, I'd like to mention Possession Sues.  These happen when a fic writer turns a canon character into a Sue.  It's insulting to the character and the canon work.  It can get especially bad if said canon character is a customizable character from a game, such as Commander Shepard, particularly when writers try to sidestep the issue by saying that since these characters differ between players, anything goes.

Which comes to a fic that had this down to a T.  In this fic, FemShep manages to get the best possible solution concerning the Reapers by a sequence so convoluted I couldn't understand it (it involved jumping between the choices and hacking code and bunch of stuff that left me confused), she becomes the liaison to the Reapers (not controlling them), educates Harbinger about organics, her body changes to take on turian traits (this is a Shakarian fic, btw), gains some type of (I'm assuming) high position with turian government, and has a bunch of turians and Harbinger wanting to screw her because she's just so awesome and badass even though they know she's with Garrus.  Come on, that itself is one of the most traditional traits of a Mary Sue!  But the worst part?  The writer has Shepard herself admit that she's a Sue!  And then defends themselves (the writer) by using Garrus as a mouthpiece to point out that hey, Shepard in canon is practically a Mary Sue already, so it's all good (so what if she only succeeded due to the help she had, it was still because of her leadership anything got done; this was actually one of his arguments)!

Look, Shepard is a video game character, and as such, will almost always come out on top simply because if they don't, the player can't advance.  Of course they'll appear to be an unstoppable badass devil/saint.  But even canon has its limits.  Renegades can have actions come back and bite them in the ass, paragons might be forced to concede to resolutions they don't want, and mixes can fail spot checks that result in undesired consequences.  This fic Shep seems way too . . . I don't even know how to put it.  If the things I mentioned don't seem too bad, it's much more obvious in the fic itself.

And on a final, major note, acknowledging that your character is a Mary Sue does not suddenly stop the Mary Sue from being an annoying Mary Sue.  It doesn't make it anymore acceptable just because you've pointed it out.

[PosthumanHeresy]

That sounds so bad it's perfect.

[TheUnknown]

That sounds so bad it's perfect.

I didn't read the whole thing (not even sure it's done) because I only got to a certain point before I just went 'I'm done,' but after writing this, I'm hoping that this fic wasn't really serious and started going over the top on purpose.  I doubt it, though, because it came off as a serious shipping fic, at the very least the tone in the first chapters indicated it was meant be one.  And as for Garrus' characterization, he had a few irritating traits that are common in Shakarian fics, but that's probably for the shipping thread.

[niam2023]

There was one really, really weird Legend of Korra and Marvel Universe fanfic that, among other strangeness, had Amon joining forces with The Hood, a demonic mafia boss. It also made a bunch of characters teenagers.

Also Korra marries a neurotic blond with The Angel of Death living in him.

[Lady Evil]

And then there's Christian fic, where the characters act like they've never heard of God before, but once they do, it's all they want! Writers of Christian fics are rather thin skinned so it's hard to find some of their works. here's a few titles:

How Can I Go On?: Sailor Moon fic. No transformations or talking cats. Serena is converted to Christianity by her new friends and is so happy she doesn't care that she's later raped and impregnated. It's all God's plan, after all! Includes a scene of Serena praying in front of a prom dress.

Harry Potter Turns to the Lord: Harry Potter goes flying on his broomstick, has an accident and is helped out by a Muggle. Muggle tells Harry all about Jesus and gives him a Bible to read. Harry thinks the Bible "makes sense" and snaps his wand in half, vowing never to do witchcraft again. No mention made of You-Know-Who

The Prayer Ponies: Charity Sue gets Twilight Sparkle to convert two minutes after meeting her. This causes Twilight to lose all her friends including her beloved mentor, but that's OK! Charity Sue and Jesus are the only friends she needs! Includes a BLAM where Fluttershy goes mountain climbing.

Not fics, but there is this person who does these various Star Wars characters convert to Jesus artwork on DA, and every time someone comments that they're being a bit too in your face with their religion, this person flips their shit.

As to what annoys me in fics, I like to call them Professor AU fics, where the said character is made a professor, and you're the student, and both of you are fucking. No real reason other than I've seen just way too many of them.

I had to look that up! Do you mean SonicClone? He could be CWC's long lost brother! Similar drawing style, same fandoms, same bad attitude....

[TheUnknown]

Why are real people fics a thing?  These aren't fictional characters you're writing about; these are actual living people.  It's uncomfortable and awkward.