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Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: Osama bin Bambi on August 27, 2013, 06:56:26 pm

Title: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on August 27, 2013, 06:56:26 pm
I originally heard about this on tumblr and went out to check it because it sounded too good to be true. The cited NY Times article was not accessible (apparently the site was hacked), but I found some other sources on what happened.

Link! (http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Bill-outlaws-growing-problem-of-revenge-porn-4735963.php)

Quote
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — The state Senate has approved a bill outlawing so-called "revenge porn," which lawmakers say is an increasing problem on the Internet.

People who post identifiable nude pictures of someone else online without the victim's permission, intending to cause emotional distress or humiliation, could be charged with a misdemeanor under the bill. The penalty is up to a year in jail and a $1,000 fine.

And for once, I'm disappointed in the ACLU:

Quote
Democratic Sen. Leland Yee of San Francisco was the only no vote. He and the American Civil Liberties Union are concerned the bill could interfere with free speech rights.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: ironbite on August 27, 2013, 06:58:13 pm
On the one hand I can see their point.  But on the other hand there's a porn site called Ex-Girlfriend that boasts that they're selling what amounts to sex tapes after their girlfriends leave the guy for a quick buck.

Ironbite-forgive me if I don't give a shit about free speech.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: agentCDE on August 27, 2013, 07:37:53 pm
...I'd be willing to let them make their case, but really, that's just because I'd like to ask them where, exactly, free speech factors into for-profit sexual harassment. Because that's basically what Ironbite described sounds like to me.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: dpareja on August 27, 2013, 07:40:35 pm
...I'd be willing to let them make their case, but really, that's just because I'd like to ask them where, exactly, free speech factors into for-profit sexual harassment. Because that's basically what Ironbite described sounds like to me.

The ACLU is very hardline on freedom of speech--as far as I know, they draw the line between actual children in pornography and pornography with representations of children (such as written works and pornographic graphic novels or hentai). The former they don't defend, the latter they do.

They'll probably fight this, and they'll hopefully lose. Revenge porn is sick.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: R. U. Sirius on August 27, 2013, 07:41:06 pm
The issue I can see is that many of these sites are just showing regular amateur porn and slapping on the "revenge" label to give their viewers an extra thrill. I could see requiring sites to include a disclaimer that, yes, everyone involved is okay with the material being shown, the way "surprise porn" sites where someone approaches a seemingly random person on the street include disclaimers that it's all actors.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on August 27, 2013, 07:48:50 pm
The issue I can see is that many of these sites are just showing regular amateur porn and slapping on the "revenge" label to give their viewers an extra thrill. I could see requiring sites to include a disclaimer that, yes, everyone involved is okay with the material being shown, the way "surprise porn" sites where someone approaches a seemingly random person on the street include disclaimers that it's all actors.

I'd be okay with that, since I have no problem with taboo subjects in porn as long as no one is harmed. Real "revenge porn," however, does harm others. 
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: R. U. Sirius on August 27, 2013, 07:52:03 pm
The issue I can see is that many of these sites are just showing regular amateur porn and slapping on the "revenge" label to give their viewers an extra thrill. I could see requiring sites to include a disclaimer that, yes, everyone involved is okay with the material being shown, the way "surprise porn" sites where someone approaches a seemingly random person on the street include disclaimers that it's all actors.

I'd be okay with that, since I have no problem with taboo subjects in porn as long as no one is harmed. Real "revenge porn," however, does harm others.

I agree, hence my disclaimer suggestion. I didn't read the article, but just from your description, it sounds like the bill is so broadly-written as to affect even sites that only use it as a marketing gimmick.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: wrightway on August 27, 2013, 08:49:04 pm
On the one hand I can see their point.  But on the other hand there's a porn site called Ex-Girlfriend that boasts that they're selling what amounts to sex tapes after their girlfriends leave the guy for a quick buck.

Ironbite-forgive me if I don't give a shit about free speech.

There's also Revenge Fantasies, where they have huge ads all over the front page offering men cash for pictures and videos of their exes. It's definitely not run of the mill amateur porn gussied up to get more views.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: ironbite on August 27, 2013, 08:54:02 pm
...and this got stickied because?
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Sigmaleph on August 27, 2013, 09:07:35 pm
Because my finger slipped.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Askold on August 27, 2013, 11:31:07 pm
The issue I can see is that many of these sites are just showing regular amateur porn and slapping on the "revenge" label to give their viewers an extra thrill. I could see requiring sites to include a disclaimer that, yes, everyone involved is okay with the material being shown, the way "surprise porn" sites where someone approaches a seemingly random person on the street include disclaimers that it's all actors.

I'd be okay with that, since I have no problem with taboo subjects in porn as long as no one is harmed. Real "revenge porn," however, does harm others.

I agree, hence my disclaimer suggestion. I didn't read the article, but just from your description, it sounds like the bill is so broadly-written as to affect even sites that only use it as a marketing gimmick.

It specifically said:
Quote
People who post identifiable nude pictures of someone else online without the victim's permission, intending to cause emotional distress or humiliation, could be charged with a misdemeanor under the bill. The penalty is up to a year in jail and a $1,000 fine.
So fake revenge porn won't be affected, in those cases the producers can simply prove that the actors have given their permission for the video to be posted.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Radiation on August 27, 2013, 11:38:47 pm
How would they go about enforcing this? What if the person that is being posted online is unaware of naked pics/videos of themselves being put on the Internet by their ex?
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: The Illusive Man on August 27, 2013, 11:54:17 pm
Folks there is a HUGE difference between the First Amendment and vigilantism, that difference is intent to cause harm.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Art Vandelay on August 27, 2013, 11:54:30 pm
Isn't it already fifty shades of illegal to post naked pictures of someone else on the internet without their permission? This law seems just a tad redundant to me.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Art Vandelay on August 28, 2013, 12:02:35 am
Huh, that is really fucked up.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: The Illusive Man on August 28, 2013, 01:03:08 am
I can't speak for everyone, but alcohol was generally a contributing factor to...
And that means no consent, which is bad.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Sylvana on August 28, 2013, 06:04:50 am
We live in a world where the internet is a larger and larger part of our every day lives, not to mention that just about everyone walks around with a video camera on them 24/7.
Laws that were made many years ago protecting freedom of speech and property couldn't even begin to imagine the type of world we live in today.
Laws like this are a good thing. It seems pretty specific and to the best of my understanding handles the problems pretty well especially in today's modern world where kids are sending nude pics of themselves with their phones to their boyfriend / girlfriend. New laws, and new interpretations of the boundaries of older laws need to be made to accommodate the high tech world we live in.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 28, 2013, 10:11:57 am
Actually, once you give someone the picture it becomes their property to do with as they please unless there are laws written against it. I found that out when I was afraid my ex would post videos he had of me. Ohio has no laws in place to prevent revenge porn.
Seriously? Weird. Yeah, I'd never do that, even if I was pissed at an ex. Then again, I have a high threshold for forgiveness, so I have no idea how anyone could ever be that angry.

I can't speak for everyone, but alcohol was generally a contributing factor to...
And that means no consent, which is bad.
If both are drunk, are both raping each other? Or is it that only the woman can be raped? Because that's how it always sounds like to me. I've never heard anyone address what it means if both are drunk. What if the man is drunk and the woman is not? I bet very few people would be morally outraged by that. Let's be honest, there's a difference between smashed, wrecked and gone, and drunk. If we decide that all drunk sex is rape, we might as well arrest most people above the age of 15 in America.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on August 28, 2013, 03:18:31 pm
I can't speak for everyone, but alcohol was generally a contributing factor to...
And that means no consent, which is bad.
If both are drunk, are both raping each other? Or is it that only the woman can be raped? Because that's how it always sounds like to me. I've never heard anyone address what it means if both are drunk. What if the man is drunk and the woman is not? I bet very few people would be morally outraged by that. Let's be honest, there's a difference between smashed, wrecked and gone, and drunk. If we decide that all drunk sex is rape, we might as well arrest most people above the age of 15 in America.

While you are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you are still responsible for the acts you commit (assuming that you took the substances of your own free will). This is why you are still charged with a crime if you get in an accident while drunk. A rape victim who was drunk is responsible for their own actions, but "being raped" is not an action on their part, it is something that happened to them.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Old Viking on August 28, 2013, 04:25:36 pm
Talk about a dull life!  I'm closing in on 81 and there are no photos of me naked (that I'm aware of).
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 28, 2013, 06:21:13 pm
I can't speak for everyone, but alcohol was generally a contributing factor to...
And that means no consent, which is bad.
If both are drunk, are both raping each other? Or is it that only the woman can be raped? Because that's how it always sounds like to me. I've never heard anyone address what it means if both are drunk. What if the man is drunk and the woman is not? I bet very few people would be morally outraged by that. Let's be honest, there's a difference between smashed, wrecked and gone, and drunk. If we decide that all drunk sex is rape, we might as well arrest most people above the age of 15 in America.

While you are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you are still responsible for the acts you commit (assuming that you took the substances of your own free will). This is why you are still charged with a crime if you get in an accident while drunk. A rape victim who was drunk is responsible for their own actions, but "being raped" is not an action on their part, it is something that happened to them.
I understand that. That's why I'm curious. Since oftentimes it's said that if a woman is drunk, she cannot consent, not even if she is saying yes, because she is drunk, does that apply to men? What if both are drunk? That's what I'm not getting here. People argue that any sex with a woman who is drunk is rape. TIM did it right there, saying that if there's alcohol involved, there cannot be consent.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: The Illusive Man on August 28, 2013, 11:38:02 pm
Talk about a dull life!  I'm closing in on 81 and there are no photos of me naked (that I'm aware of).
[sarcasm]Why good sir this seems to be a problem in need of solving! May I suggest obtaining a digital camera and posting pics to /b/? I am sure they will be very receptive and thankful for those pics.[/sarcasm]
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: RavynousHunter on August 28, 2013, 11:49:28 pm
Actually, once you give someone the picture it becomes their property to do with as they please unless there are laws written against it. I found that out when I was afraid my ex would post videos he had of me. Ohio has no laws in place to prevent revenge porn.
Seriously? Weird. Yeah, I'd never do that, even if I was pissed at an ex. Then again, I have a high threshold for forgiveness, so I have no idea how anyone could ever be that angry.

I prefer to express my extreme hatred for my one, and hopefully only, ex with an icy hate that only barely begins to so much as acknowledge her existence as anything more than a bad memory.  What she did fucked me up so bad that I, at one point, actually considered having myself institutionalized.  One good thing about not being a Christian: I'm not forced by dogma or guilt to forgive truly heinous things people do to me and the ones I love.  I do not like her, I do not forgive her, and I highly doubt I'll forget it.  It was the worst eight months of my life, and I owe it all to one little lady.  Sorry, baby, but I got someone far, far better now.  SUCK IT, BITCH.

Okay, rant over.  Aah, I feel better.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: guizonde on August 29, 2013, 04:28:36 am
Actually, once you give someone the picture it becomes their property to do with as they please unless there are laws written against it. I found that out when I was afraid my ex would post videos he had of me. Ohio has no laws in place to prevent revenge porn.
Seriously? Weird. Yeah, I'd never do that, even if I was pissed at an ex. Then again, I have a high threshold for forgiveness, so I have no idea how anyone could ever be that angry.

I prefer to express my extreme hatred for my one, and hopefully only, ex with an icy hate that only barely begins to so much as acknowledge her existence as anything more than a bad memory.  What she did fucked me up so bad that I, at one point, actually considered having myself institutionalized.  One good thing about not being a Christian: I'm not forced by dogma or guilt to forgive truly heinous things people do to me and the ones I love.  I do not like her, I do not forgive her, and I highly doubt I'll forget it.  It was the worst eight months of my life, and I owe it all to one little lady.  Sorry, baby, but I got someone far, far better now.  SUCK IT, BITCH.

Okay, rant over.  Aah, I feel better.

i share the sentiment, and you're not the only one with a psycho ex. i look back to this and remember how i found the most comprehending psychiatrist ever. real nice guy, truly proffessionnal. helped me by giving tools to fight chronic depression without resorting to chemical crutches, real supportive, even didn't write it in my medical history so i could do martial arts or go to the shooting range (at my request, but since his evaluation stated word-for-word that i was not dangerous to me or society, it was just as he called it).
i don't want to remember the bad times, but as a veteran of a psycho ex, yeah, i feel for you too. i'm sure i'm not the only one.  :)
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: RavynousHunter on August 29, 2013, 09:16:32 am
Actually, once you give someone the picture it becomes their property to do with as they please unless there are laws written against it. I found that out when I was afraid my ex would post videos he had of me. Ohio has no laws in place to prevent revenge porn.
Seriously? Weird. Yeah, I'd never do that, even if I was pissed at an ex. Then again, I have a high threshold for forgiveness, so I have no idea how anyone could ever be that angry.

I prefer to express my extreme hatred for my one, and hopefully only, ex with an icy hate that only barely begins to so much as acknowledge her existence as anything more than a bad memory.  What she did fucked me up so bad that I, at one point, actually considered having myself institutionalized.  One good thing about not being a Christian: I'm not forced by dogma or guilt to forgive truly heinous things people do to me and the ones I love.  I do not like her, I do not forgive her, and I highly doubt I'll forget it.  It was the worst eight months of my life, and I owe it all to one little lady.  Sorry, baby, but I got someone far, far better now.  SUCK IT, BITCH.

Okay, rant over.  Aah, I feel better.

i share the sentiment, and you're not the only one with a psycho ex. i look back to this and remember how i found the most comprehending psychiatrist ever. real nice guy, truly proffessionnal. helped me by giving tools to fight chronic depression without resorting to chemical crutches, real supportive, even didn't write it in my medical history so i could do martial arts or go to the shooting range (at my request, but since his evaluation stated word-for-word that i was not dangerous to me or society, it was just as he called it).
i don't want to remember the bad times, but as a veteran of a psycho ex, yeah, i feel for you too. i'm sure i'm not the only one.  :)

I wouldn't call her psycho, per se.  Oh yeah, she had problems...quite a few of 'em, including staying with her now-ex simply because she "couldn't live without sex."  Yes, she stayed in a relationship where they fought about doing the fucking dishes because she wanted cock.  Pathetic.  What she was was not psycho, but heartless.

I don't mind trashing her in text, hell its downright cathartic.  But, I never drop names, and I'd never do something to actively destroy her life.  I'll let her do that herself, she's more than capable with the incredible amount of heartlessness and sheer, crushing stupidity she had going on.  Life will do a much better job than I ever could, anyway, because life really has no empathy.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: wrightway on August 29, 2013, 09:42:32 am
Talk about a dull life!  I'm closing in on 81 and there are no photos of me naked (that I'm aware of).

That's because you're smart.

...and got up to most of your shenanigans before cameras were widespread.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 29, 2013, 12:01:17 pm
Actually, once you give someone the picture it becomes their property to do with as they please unless there are laws written against it. I found that out when I was afraid my ex would post videos he had of me. Ohio has no laws in place to prevent revenge porn.
Seriously? Weird. Yeah, I'd never do that, even if I was pissed at an ex. Then again, I have a high threshold for forgiveness, so I have no idea how anyone could ever be that angry.

I prefer to express my extreme hatred for my one, and hopefully only, ex with an icy hate that only barely begins to so much as acknowledge her existence as anything more than a bad memory.  What she did fucked me up so bad that I, at one point, actually considered having myself institutionalized.  One good thing about not being a Christian: I'm not forced by dogma or guilt to forgive truly heinous things people do to me and the ones I love.  I do not like her, I do not forgive her, and I highly doubt I'll forget it.  It was the worst eight months of my life, and I owe it all to one little lady.  Sorry, baby, but I got someone far, far better now.  SUCK IT, BITCH.

Okay, rant over.  Aah, I feel better.
Yeah, I forgave my girlfriend for cheating on me with a guy for few months, while I knew about it from day one and she knew I didn't like it (admittedly, it also means she was never once faithful to him, and she was still doing more with me than him, so he really was still getting the short end of the stick). Since he turned out to be a psycho stalker, she's apologized and admits she really shouldn't have done that. To quote the ex-friend who tried to cause problems for me only for me to ruin his reputation further by playing on his past lies to make everyone think he was making shit up rather than revealing secrets, "Actions have consequences". Ahh, if only I had had a chance to quote that back to him. Oh well.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Art Vandelay on August 29, 2013, 12:08:07 pm
Yeah, I forgave my girlfriend for cheating on me with a guy for few months, while I knew about it from day one and she knew I didn't like it (admittedly, it also means she was never once faithful to him, and she was still doing more with me than him, so he really was still getting the short end of the stick). Since he turned out to be a psycho stalker, she's apologized and admits she really shouldn't have done that. To quote the ex-friend who tried to cause problems for me only for me to ruin his reputation further by playing on his past lies to make everyone think he was making shit up rather than revealing secrets, "Actions have consequences". Ahh, if only I had had a chance to quote that back to him. Oh well.
So let me get this straight, your girlfriend cheats on you, you knew full well it was happening, she knew that you knew, the only reason she didn't leave you for him is because he turned out to be a fuckwit, and yet you stayed with her with nary an objection?

Say, would you be willing to come over my house and lie outside my front door? I'm kind of in need of a new doormat, and you'd be absolutely perfect.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 29, 2013, 12:51:53 pm
Yeah, I forgave my girlfriend for cheating on me with a guy for few months, while I knew about it from day one and she knew I didn't like it (admittedly, it also means she was never once faithful to him, and she was still doing more with me than him, so he really was still getting the short end of the stick). Since he turned out to be a psycho stalker, she's apologized and admits she really shouldn't have done that. To quote the ex-friend who tried to cause problems for me only for me to ruin his reputation further by playing on his past lies to make everyone think he was making shit up rather than revealing secrets, "Actions have consequences". Ahh, if only I had had a chance to quote that back to him. Oh well.
So let me get this straight, your girlfriend cheats on you, you knew full well it was happening, she knew that you knew, the only reason she didn't leave you for him is because he turned out to be a fuckwit, and yet you stayed with her with nary an objection?

Say, would you be willing to come over my house and lie outside my front door? I'm kind of in need of a new doormat, and you'd be absolutely perfect.
Nah, she had made it pretty clear in the last month of it happening that she was looking to leave him but didn't want to make anything up. I understand I'm odd, it just doesn't bug me enough to leave over it.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 29, 2013, 01:32:59 pm
Yeah, I forgave my girlfriend for cheating on me with a guy for few months, while I knew about it from day one and she knew I didn't like it (admittedly, it also means she was never once faithful to him, and she was still doing more with me than him, so he really was still getting the short end of the stick). Since he turned out to be a psycho stalker, she's apologized and admits she really shouldn't have done that. To quote the ex-friend who tried to cause problems for me only for me to ruin his reputation further by playing on his past lies to make everyone think he was making shit up rather than revealing secrets, "Actions have consequences". Ahh, if only I had had a chance to quote that back to him. Oh well.
So let me get this straight, your girlfriend cheats on you, you knew full well it was happening, she knew that you knew, the only reason she didn't leave you for him is because he turned out to be a fuckwit, and yet you stayed with her with nary an objection?

Say, would you be willing to come over my house and lie outside my front door? I'm kind of in need of a new doormat, and you'd be absolutely perfect.

So because he's willing to work through problems with his girlfriend, instead of just dumping her at the first sign of trouble, he's a... doormat?

Fuck, I have my own problems with PHH, but not in this scenario.  I don't know what's got your panties in a twist again.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 29, 2013, 01:36:12 pm
Yeah, I forgave my girlfriend for cheating on me with a guy for few months, while I knew about it from day one and she knew I didn't like it (admittedly, it also means she was never once faithful to him, and she was still doing more with me than him, so he really was still getting the short end of the stick). Since he turned out to be a psycho stalker, she's apologized and admits she really shouldn't have done that. To quote the ex-friend who tried to cause problems for me only for me to ruin his reputation further by playing on his past lies to make everyone think he was making shit up rather than revealing secrets, "Actions have consequences". Ahh, if only I had had a chance to quote that back to him. Oh well.
So let me get this straight, your girlfriend cheats on you, you knew full well it was happening, she knew that you knew, the only reason she didn't leave you for him is because he turned out to be a fuckwit, and yet you stayed with her with nary an objection?

Say, would you be willing to come over my house and lie outside my front door? I'm kind of in need of a new doormat, and you'd be absolutely perfect.

So because he's willing to work through problems with his girlfriend, instead of just dumping her at the first sign of trouble, he's a... doormat?

Fuck, I have my own problems with PHH, but not in this scenario.  I don't know what's got your panties in a twist again.
Thanks. I'm sure everyone has some problems with everyone, but thanks for being on my side here rather than letting any past arguments influence you.  :) Means a lot to me. I'm used to people deciding that if you disagree on one thing, they'll always oppose you just to oppose you.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: Art Vandelay on August 29, 2013, 01:39:19 pm
So because he's willing to work through problems with his girlfriend, instead of just dumping her at the first sign of trouble, he's a... doormat?
It's more that he just let her continue until she decided that she didn't like the other guy with little to no objections. That hardly qualifies as "working through problems". Not to mention, cheating is hardly a mere "sign of trouble" by any stretch of the imagination.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 29, 2013, 01:47:26 pm
So because he's willing to work through problems with his girlfriend, instead of just dumping her at the first sign of trouble, he's a... doormat?
It's more that he just let her continue until she decided that she didn't like the other guy with little to no objections. That hardly qualifies as "working through problems". Not to mention, cheating is hardly a mere "sign of trouble" by any stretch of the imagination.
Actually, I did object. However, considering she was never faithful to him for even a second, it wasn't exactly the worst thing in the world. And, she was honest with me the whole time. Additionally, I'll be honest, I do go very easy on her due to her issues (I've mentioned before, she's a paranoid schizophrenic, and has only in the last month gotten good about taking her meds, because she finally realized what would happen over time if she doesn't), but before this we had broken up several times beforehand. Since this happened, we haven't had any issues. If anything, it was what she needed to make sure she was right about being able to trust me and not be abandoned.
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist on August 29, 2013, 08:00:45 pm
I thought you guys have an open relationship? Or is it like, a "you can date other people as long as I approve of them" deal or what?
Title: Re: "Revenge Porn" Outlawed in California
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 29, 2013, 11:18:37 pm
I thought you guys have an open relationship? Or is it like, a "you can date other people as long as I approve of them" deal or what?
It's open sexually, and approve on romantic. I knew he was, well, not a good idea, and therefore was not cool with it. In the end, I was proven right. Right now, it's me + her and her + her gf, but is perfectly fine there, because the gf is actually a good person, and they've been friends for years. Additionally, we all know about it and me and the gf are friends.