Author Topic: Worst of Social Justice  (Read 1533154 times)

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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #630 on: July 21, 2013, 11:47:23 am »
My family and I pretty regularly strike up conversations and even friendships with strangers. We're just nice people who enjoy being nice to others.
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Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #631 on: July 21, 2013, 12:50:40 pm »
I don't think his intentions were entirely pure by the way he called her a bitch at the end. I think if he did just intend it as a passing compliment, he would've apologized when she told him to back the fuck off and left it at that.
That entirely depends on the person, a lot of men I know get annoyed quite quickly at having some inconsequential thing turned on them like a knife. Not everyone capitulates on a moment's notice when they don't see themselves doing anything wrong.

Then, guys, if you're so afraid of that happening, don't talk to women you don't know. I mean, I don't know how you were raised, but I was always told not to talk to strangers. If you take that chance, be prepared for what you get. Likewise, if a girl doesn't want to talk to you, get over it and don't call her sexist slurs.
We're not afraid of it, and it's more than not wanting to talk to us. If someone ignores me when I compliment them, I get on with my day. If someone tells me to shut the fuck up for complementing them, I'd be annoyed no matter who it was. That goes for guys and girls equally, and even my idols. If you don't want to talk to someone or don't like them talking to you, then ignore them. Don't scream at them. Additionally, everyone's a stranger at first. If anyone ever completely listened to that advice, they'd be a hikikomori.

Totally gonna just butt in here, but that whole "stop redefining racism" spiel annoys the crap out of me. You need to understand that different social groups define terms differently (which isn't something new, that's as old as language itself). For many people of color and people who pursue an academic discourse on race, racism means institutionalized racism which means white supremacy/the social history of people of color. It has a history of social context related to colonialism. And it's okay for these people to define it as such because to them it make sense. Ethnic violence and tensions have existed long before colonialism and existed virtually everywhere that wasn't a very isolated inhabited island. And these ethnic tensions do contribute to our understanding of race and racism, but again for many people the understanding of racism is instead based of European colonialism.

Now some people might say "well, the dictionary definition". Well the dictionary only gives a very preliminary examination of racism. There are other definitions and analysis of racism. You do not have to accept those definition (in the same way people of color do not have to accept the dictionary's definition), but I personally think it would be very helpful if more people understood that other people operate under different contexts of race.

I'm not going to defend that particular tumblr post because it's so painfully simplistic, but it just irks me when people don't try to see what people of color sees. For me, our definition racism just means we see our discrimination from a different social and historical context. That isn't to say that racial discrimination doesn't happen white people, nor does it say that discrimination that white people occasionally face isn't negative. Saying X is different from Y doesn't take away from the negativity of X. All it says is X is different from Y. That's all that's being said here, that the context of discrimination that people of color face is different from the discrimination that white people face, and for that reason many people of color view racism as white supremacy/colonialism. And again, you don't have to accept that but it is just so much more helpful in my opinion if you understood that is people of color is coming from.

Quote
(to be fair, they're the only Asian country that's first world, has a sane-ish government, isn't big on the "cruel and unusual punishment" and tends to be the source of innovation, so they do have a bit of a good reason for their ego).

That in no way excuses all the fucked up shit they did to other Asians. They still haven't recognized that they sent hundreds of Thais to their death building a train to India, that they killed Filipinos, that they massacred Chinese, that they raped Koreans. Heck, they weren't all that friendly to the indigenous Ainus or the Zianichi Koreans that have been in Japan as far back as the unification of Korea under the Silla Kingdom. And are you forgetting that South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, and Singapore are pretty much also sources of economic development and innovations? You're painting the rest of East/Southeast Asia as some type of backward monolith. Asia has it's problems for sure, but it's pretty much as complex as the West.

If you're going to ask why I decided to come back for this post, just shoot me a PM. If not all I can say is asshole mod is the reason and if you get that then you probably can guess why I'm back.
I'll respond to the part directly targeted at me, first. I don't think it makes what Japan has done okay. However, you ignored the fact that I brought up more than development or innovation. In Singapore, you can get death for unlawful discharge of a firearm, even if nobody is injured. You can also get it for 500 grams of pot. Anyone who is found guilty of making morphine, cocaine, heroin or meth gets a MANDATORY death penalty. It's illegal to be gay in Singapore, too. Chewing gum is also illegal, as is oral sex unless as foreplay. Bribery is so common in South Korea that traffic police must report all money they make off of it. Hong Kong might be largely autonomous, but they are still owned by China. Taiwan is still ruled by China, and it's not going to change because nobody has the balls to tell China off. Let's face it, Japan is just the least ass-backwards, least horrible nation in Asia.

As for the other part, institutionalize racism comes in many more forms than just white-on-POC. The only reason it seems it doesn't is because we're living in America. In the rest of this great, big shitty planet, it's often people who Americans would consider the same race. For example, the Hutus and Tutsis. To see it otherwise, unless talking about ONLY America, is wrong. Not a different viewpoint that is equal. Wrong. Incorrect. Historically and socially uninformed.
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Offline Clochette

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #632 on: July 21, 2013, 01:23:03 pm »
It shouldn't be hard to recognize when you're annoying someone because they don't want to talk to you, stranger or no stranger.
 
Likewise, it shouldn't be hard to recognize when somebody is complimenting you because you're cute, or when someone is harrassing you on the street.

But in writing, after the fact? For once, it's a real "he said she said" scenario.

For the record, I love talking to strangers on the street, and occasionally stop girls to tell them they're cute. (Of course, I usually tend to say something like "Sorry to disturb you, I'm not trying to hit on you, but I find you really cute! Have a great day!", so it's not a "Hey, you! Nice tits!" scenario.) I would get pretty pissed if someone just started laying on me for complimenting them, but I probably wouldn't insult them.

If you complimented someone and they started freaking out, you should probably assume that they've had bad experiences with "compliments" in the past and let it go. Chances are she's not so much a raging feminazi as a normal woman who's tired of being leered at and just happened to snap.

Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #633 on: July 21, 2013, 01:41:20 pm »
It shouldn't be hard to recognize when you're annoying someone because they don't want to talk to you, stranger or no stranger.
 
Likewise, it shouldn't be hard to recognize when somebody is complimenting you because you're cute, or when someone is harrassing you on the street.

But in writing, after the fact? For once, it's a real "he said she said" scenario.

For the record, I love talking to strangers on the street, and occasionally stop girls to tell them they're cute. (Of course, I usually tend to say something like "Sorry to disturb you, I'm not trying to hit on you, but I find you really cute! Have a great day!", so it's not a "Hey, you! Nice tits!" scenario.) I would get pretty pissed if someone just started laying on me for complimenting them, but I probably wouldn't insult them.

If you complimented someone and they started freaking out, you should probably assume that they've had bad experiences with "compliments" in the past and let it go. Chances are she's not so much a raging feminazi as a normal woman who's tired of being leered at and just happened to snap.
Even then, that doesn't make acceptable behavior. People don't get special permission to mistreat others because they're in a bad mood or have bad past experiences. If some is an asshole towards others, they get treated like any other asshole.


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« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 01:48:15 pm by PosthumanHeresy »
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
 - Trent Reznor, Down In It

Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
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Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.

Offline gyeonghwa

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #634 on: July 21, 2013, 02:03:22 pm »
Quote
As for the other part, institutionalize racism comes in many more forms than just white-on-POC. The only reason it seems it doesn't is because we're living in America. In the rest of this great, big shitty planet, it's often people who Americans would consider the same race. For example, the Hutus and Tutsis. To see it otherwise, unless talking about ONLY America, is wrong. Not a different viewpoint that is equal. Wrong. Incorrect. Historically and socially uninformed.

You've missed the entire point of what I posted. In particularly where I wrote that some people view racism/institutionalized racism is seen in a colonialism (and globalized) context which set up a white/PoC dichotomy. That certainly doesn't mean ethnic tension doesn't exist beyond a white-on-POC level but I'm saying is that some people don't view that as racism in a global context. All that I said was that some people view the term racism as such and that it would be nice if people understood the context on which they build that premise. And again, you write as though I belittle things like Hutu and Tutsis interethnic violence. I'm not.

Quote
I'll respond to the part directly targeted at me, first. I don't think it makes what Japan has done okay. However, you ignored the fact that I brought up more than development or innovation. In Singapore, you can get death for unlawful discharge of a firearm, even if nobody is injured. You can also get it for 500 grams of pot. Anyone who is found guilty of making morphine, cocaine, heroin or meth gets a MANDATORY death penalty. It's illegal to be gay in Singapore, too. Chewing gum is also illegal, as is oral sex unless as foreplay. Bribery is so common in South Korea that traffic police must report all money they make off of it. Hong Kong might be largely autonomous, but they are still owned by China. Taiwan is still ruled by China, and it's not going to change because nobody has the balls to tell China off. Let's face it, Japan is just the least ass-backwards, least horrible nation in Asia

And again you are underestimating the complexity of Asia. Singapore has a lot of fucked up laws. But then you realized some of those laws, such as the anti-sodomy laws, were relics of British colonialism. Some of them, not all of them mind you. And then you have things like 21000 Singaporeans turning up to support LGBTQ rights publicly despite the fact that being LGBTQ is illegal in Singapore. In fact Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippine have been way more adamant that Japan when it comes to LGBTQ rights because Japan has largely been apathetic to sexual minorities. Taiwan may be Chinese but they're autonomous. Not only that but Taiwan claims the PRC as their own, so you're forgetting that dynamic. When you write off the rest of Asia as backwards, you ignore these type of progresses. And Japan isn't all that progressive as our media often portray. The right wing is just as much poised to sweep the Diet and make it South Korea Jr. all the while rewriting their history books to whitewash Japanese atrocities against their neighbors. Not to mention that Japans economy is weakening due to their attempt at emulation austerity policies that are in place in the West. And it was only less then a decade ago they officially recognized that had non-Japanese indigenous people living in the country. You can't just sweep an entire region as barbaric and backwards without understanding their political nuances.

EDIT: And you're going to accuse me of being socially uniformed, you should at least be socially informed about how people view things in a very global context. I mean a very easy way to verify the white-on-POC viewpoint of institutionalized racism is looking at the global beauty industry and see how it values typically European features over other features. There is a reason why bleaching your skin is a thing in Africa.  No one said you personally had to accept that viewpoint, just understand that it is a view point that is valid in the eyes to a lot of people.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 02:12:17 pm by gyeonghwa »
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #635 on: July 21, 2013, 07:22:50 pm »
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #636 on: July 21, 2013, 07:39:49 pm »
I got to see a double standard in action on Friday night. The local art festival is in full swing, and that includes a family friendly art night that included bands. One of the bands was having technical difficulties, so I was stuck sitting near a horrible human being for half an hour. She'd worn a top best described as "I'm going to convince you to buy me drinks and then trash you." Not a scrap of fabric you should wear to a family centric evening. Guys kept coming up to her to compliment her. As long as it was a cute guy, or a guy in the band, she giggled, flounced, flipped her hair, and generally acted like an airhead. The one time someone not her standard talked to her she told him to fuck off, and then loudly complained about creepy pervs long after he'd left.

I also saw the satanist my ex and I both know get into a fight with a store owner. He wrote "god is dead" on the guy's store in chalk right next to some little kid's "Jesus lives!" drawing. He then proceeded to claim freedom of religion even though he defaced private property.

Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #637 on: July 21, 2013, 08:05:49 pm »
I got to see a double standard in action on Friday night. The local art festival is in full swing, and that includes a family friendly art night that included bands. One of the bands was having technical difficulties, so I was stuck sitting near a horrible human being for half an hour. She'd worn a top best described as "I'm going to convince you to buy me drinks and then trash you." Not a scrap of fabric you should wear to a family centric evening. Guys kept coming up to her to compliment her. As long as it was a cute guy, or a guy in the band, she giggled, flounced, flipped her hair, and generally acted like an airhead. The one time someone not her standard talked to her she told him to fuck off, and then loudly complained about creepy pervs long after he'd left.

I also saw the satanist my ex and I both know get into a fight with a store owner. He wrote "god is dead" on the guy's store in chalk right next to some little kid's "Jesus lives!" drawing. He then proceeded to claim freedom of religion even though he defaced private property.
I personally don't care what she wore, but how she was acting sounded like a bitch of the highest caliber. As for the Satanist, while he sounds like a douche, I don't consider a mostly-naked man with a gaping chest wound nailed to a Roman torture device and left to bake in the sun while starving, suffering from dehydration and likely sleep deprivation to be very family friendly, either.
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
 - Trent Reznor, Down In It

Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.

Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.

Offline starseeker

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #638 on: July 21, 2013, 08:15:39 pm »
I got to see a double standard in action on Friday night. The local art festival is in full swing, and that includes a family friendly art night that included bands. One of the bands was having technical difficulties, so I was stuck sitting near a horrible human being for half an hour. She'd worn a top best described as "I'm going to convince you to buy me drinks and then trash you." Not a scrap of fabric you should wear to a family centric evening. Guys kept coming up to her to compliment her. As long as it was a cute guy, or a guy in the band, she giggled, flounced, flipped her hair, and generally acted like an airhead. The one time someone not her standard talked to her she told him to fuck off, and then loudly complained about creepy pervs long after he'd left.

I also saw the satanist my ex and I both know get into a fight with a store owner. He wrote "god is dead" on the guy's store in chalk right next to some little kid's "Jesus lives!" drawing. He then proceeded to claim freedom of religion even though he defaced private property.
I personally don't care what she wore, but how she was acting sounded like a bitch of the highest caliber. As for the Satanist, while he sounds like a douche, I don't consider a mostly-naked man with a gaping chest wound nailed to a Roman torture device and left to bake in the sun while starving, suffering from dehydration and likely sleep deprivation to be very family friendly, either.

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #639 on: July 21, 2013, 08:21:14 pm »
Once you are too weak to 'lift yourself' to get the pressure off your ribs/lungs you slowly suffocate.

Odd how you learn things from tv when they weren't meaning to teach such things.

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #640 on: July 21, 2013, 08:29:44 pm »
I got to see a double standard in action on Friday night. The local art festival is in full swing, and that includes a family friendly art night that included bands. One of the bands was having technical difficulties, so I was stuck sitting near a horrible human being for half an hour. She'd worn a top best described as "I'm going to convince you to buy me drinks and then trash you." Not a scrap of fabric you should wear to a family centric evening. Guys kept coming up to her to compliment her. As long as it was a cute guy, or a guy in the band, she giggled, flounced, flipped her hair, and generally acted like an airhead. The one time someone not her standard talked to her she told him to fuck off, and then loudly complained about creepy pervs long after he'd left.

I also saw the satanist my ex and I both know get into a fight with a store owner. He wrote "god is dead" on the guy's store in chalk right next to some little kid's "Jesus lives!" drawing. He then proceeded to claim freedom of religion even though he defaced private property.
I personally don't care what she wore, but how she was acting sounded like a bitch of the highest caliber. As for the Satanist, while he sounds like a douche, I don't consider a mostly-naked man with a gaping chest wound nailed to a Roman torture device and left to bake in the sun while starving, suffering from dehydration and likely sleep deprivation to be very family friendly, either.

Eh, she was hitting one of my buttons. Dressing to attract attention and then whining when the wrong fish nibbles the bait.

My main thing was that he almost came to blows with the guy. Because he wrote on the guy's property. And the store owner was trying to be nice. He started off by just washing the chalk off the wall. That should have been that. But H just had to come back and start screaming about oppression. Dude, if you'd written on the street like the other chalk writers none of this would have happened.

Offline MadmanJohnson

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #641 on: July 21, 2013, 08:32:32 pm »
I also saw the satanist my ex and I both know get into a fight with a store owner. He wrote "god is dead" on the guy's store in chalk right next to some little kid's "Jesus lives!" drawing. He then proceeded to claim freedom of religion even though he defaced private property.
What a asshat. EVEN WE'RE NOT THAT MEAN.
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Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #642 on: July 22, 2013, 04:29:29 am »
I got to see a double standard in action on Friday night. The local art festival is in full swing, and that includes a family friendly art night that included bands. One of the bands was having technical difficulties, so I was stuck sitting near a horrible human being for half an hour. She'd worn a top best described as "I'm going to convince you to buy me drinks and then trash you." Not a scrap of fabric you should wear to a family centric evening. Guys kept coming up to her to compliment her. As long as it was a cute guy, or a guy in the band, she giggled, flounced, flipped her hair, and generally acted like an airhead. The one time someone not her standard talked to her she told him to fuck off, and then loudly complained about creepy pervs long after he'd left.

I also saw the satanist my ex and I both know get into a fight with a store owner. He wrote "god is dead" on the guy's store in chalk right next to some little kid's "Jesus lives!" drawing. He then proceeded to claim freedom of religion even though he defaced private property.
I personally don't care what she wore, but how she was acting sounded like a bitch of the highest caliber. As for the Satanist, while he sounds like a douche, I don't consider a mostly-naked man with a gaping chest wound nailed to a Roman torture device and left to bake in the sun while starving, suffering from dehydration and likely sleep deprivation to be very family friendly, either.

Eh, she was hitting one of my buttons. Dressing to attract attention and then whining when the wrong fish nibbles the bait.

My main thing was that he almost came to blows with the guy. Because he wrote on the guy's property. And the store owner was trying to be nice. He started off by just washing the chalk off the wall. That should have been that. But H just had to come back and start screaming about oppression. Dude, if you'd written on the street like the other chalk writers none of this would have happened.
As I said, douche, but not supportive of the "Jesus lives" message either.
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
 - Trent Reznor, Down In It

Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.

Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.

Offline Yla

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #643 on: July 22, 2013, 11:56:34 am »

~hits him~ Cut it out, you're making us actual gifted people look bad.
What's your problem with that? I've been that way as a child - making a mistake about something I considered my core competence (for example math) triggered a strong reaction. In the most extreme case I recall I literally hit my head against the wall crying for misunderstanding a exam question and wasting time and eventually getting my first 2 (B in American grades) in math for it.
That said, I've stopped trying to anticipate what people around here want a while ago, I've found it makes things smoother.
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Offline Thejebusfire

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #644 on: July 23, 2013, 12:50:25 am »




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