FSTDT Forums

Rubbish => Preaching and Worship => Topic started by: rageaholic on August 10, 2013, 05:43:06 pm

Title: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: rageaholic on August 10, 2013, 05:43:06 pm
I’ve sure we’ve all heard this.  A “concerned Christian” comes on a board like this and sees a bunch of people bitter with religion.  So they come and share their “good news” that “true Christians” don’t have to be bigoted judgmental assholes, and how the “true gospel” is that you don’t need good works to get into heaven, you just need to believe.  “It’s not a religion, it’s a relationship with Jesus Christ” says the overly excited Christian.  I’ve seen that episode play out so many times on different forums that I practically know the dialog. 

Well sorry to burst your bubble, but what you’re offering is no different than what most of the other churches offered.  All churches claim to have the truth, most of the protestant ones emphasize faith in Christ as the most important thing, and the “it’s not a religion” is now such a cliché that saying it actually is a religion would be the real twist.  In reality, all churches have an idea of what the truth might be, there’s always some other catch to the faith thing (especially since they claim most people are going to hell anyway), and the “relationship” with God is in odd one (worthy of an entirely different topic).  When you bring Jesus dying for your sins into the equation, you’re not preaching anything revolutionary.  You’re just delivering in a different package (only it’s not really a different package now is it?). 
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Lithp on August 10, 2013, 09:36:13 pm
Plus, that doesn't really change that these people do a bunch of damage in the name of Jesus Christ, "true" or not, & frankly I'd rather be judged by what I do based on what I arbitrarily believe.

I'm still trying to figure out why they think that this information is novel. The closest I've gotten is that they simply refuse to believe that anyone outside of their circle has heard this before. RR was pretty fond of telling me that I got their beliefs "wrong" because of minor differences in wording. They were particularly stuck on the (lack of) difference between "God sends you to Hell" & "you go to Hell because of your sins."
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Alehksunos on August 10, 2013, 10:44:07 pm
I'm so fucking sick of people using "true" or "real" in everything and dismissing everything else as "false" or "fake". It's so No True Scotsman.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Nightangel8212 on August 10, 2013, 11:08:54 pm
Guh, I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "You were raised Roman Catholic? Well, THAT'S your problem right there! You weren't following the REAL truth!" whenever I answer a Christian as to what religion I followed before converting to Paganism.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Leafy on August 11, 2013, 02:18:05 am
I'm wondering if the people who post those sort of things think they're going to change anyone's mind by doing it.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 11, 2013, 02:35:23 am
I'd like to see more Christians saying it's not believing, it's good works.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 11, 2013, 04:48:07 am
It kind of reminds me of wiccans who insist that if you don't follow a certain set of beliefs, you can't call yourself wiccan.  They have no specific objection to your actual spirituality, just what you call yourself.

What are those set of beliefs?  ... They won't say.  "Find out for yourself", basically.

Maddening.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Meshakhad on August 11, 2013, 05:29:15 am
And while we're at it, how about the fact that many Christians don't consider that a lot of the people they're trying to convert are not confused or ignorant, but devout in their own non-Christian beliefs. A Christian telling me to convert is asking me to violate my own principles and turn against my own beliefs.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Askold on August 11, 2013, 05:42:33 am
But... But... Butt...

You can't be happy if you live in HERESY! And obviously those principles can't be REAL principles since they haven't been founded in the true christian beliefs of MY particular brand. /fundie
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 11, 2013, 05:49:36 am
Or they're a rip-off of Christian values because no other religion has positive values but Christianity!  And specifically, MY brand of Christianity!

...I'm serious, we would sometimes have months of Sunday School devoted to why other religions and denominations our wrong and our specific religion and denomination is right.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: RavynousHunter on August 11, 2013, 09:09:55 am
The thing is, damn near EVERY religion says that they're "right."  How the hell do they know?  It actually kinda strikes me a little arrogant to assume that your religion is the one that got all the things right.  Let's just ignore the numerous scientific inaccuracies and downright impossibilities most religions teach as if they're simple facts of life.  Its down right maddening, sometimes.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Art Vandelay on August 11, 2013, 09:11:50 am
I'd like to see more Christians saying it's not believing, it's good works.
Then what would be the point of Christianity existing in the first place?
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: rageaholic on August 11, 2013, 10:51:54 am
RR was pretty fond of telling me that I got their beliefs "wrong" because of minor differences in wording. They were particularly stuck on the (lack of) difference between "God sends you to Hell" & "you go to Hell because of your sins."

Yeah, "you send yourself to hell" is classic blame the victim.  God still decides who goes to hell and heaven so the petty semantic differences are a moot point.  I love how they completely miss the point and instead focus on the meaningless semantics. 
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 11, 2013, 01:44:56 pm
I'd like to see more Christians saying it's not believing, it's good works.
Then what would be the point of Christianity existing in the first place?
There are plenty of Christians that feel like that now, they're just outnumbered by the foaming at the mouth nuts.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Sigmaleph on August 11, 2013, 03:26:19 pm
I'd like to see more Christians saying it's not believing, it's good works.
Then what would be the point of Christianity existing in the first place?

Inspire people to do those good works?

Also, if Christianity was true, it would be worth believing in even if it didn't send you to heaven. Much like everything else.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 11, 2013, 03:27:16 pm
The thing is, damn near EVERY religion says that they're "right."  How the hell do they know?  It actually kinda strikes me a little arrogant to assume that your religion is the one that got all the things right.  Let's just ignore the numerous scientific inaccuracies and downright impossibilities most religions teach as if they're simple facts of life.  Its down right maddening, sometimes.

I wanted to say something positive about paganism here but then I remembered all the rigorists* screaming about how things should be done their way.  Even met an anti-gay pagan once, who claimed that gays violated the natural balance of masculine and feminine.

*rigorists are the kinds of people who put the "fundie" in "fundamentalist".  Effectively, consider it a synonym for "fundie".
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Flying Mint Bunny! on August 11, 2013, 03:40:04 pm
The thing is, damn near EVERY religion says that they're "right."  How the hell do they know?  It actually kinda strikes me a little arrogant to assume that your religion is the one that got all the things right.  Let's just ignore the numerous scientific inaccuracies and downright impossibilities most religions teach as if they're simple facts of life.  Its down right maddening, sometimes.

I wanted to say something positive about paganism here but then I remembered all the rigorists* screaming about how things should be done their way.  Even met an anti-gay pagan once, who claimed that gays violated the natural balance of masculine and feminine.

*rigorists are the kinds of people who put the "fundie" in "fundamentalist".  Effectively, consider it a synonym for "fundie".

I think Pagans are less likely to be fundies, because their beliefs are generally more laid back.

Sadly this isn't always the case. My mum is pagan, but she's prejudiced against IVF and transgender people.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 11, 2013, 04:40:01 pm
The thing is, damn near EVERY religion says that they're "right."  How the hell do they know?  It actually kinda strikes me a little arrogant to assume that your religion is the one that got all the things right.  Let's just ignore the numerous scientific inaccuracies and downright impossibilities most religions teach as if they're simple facts of life.  Its down right maddening, sometimes.

I wanted to say something positive about paganism here but then I remembered all the rigorists* screaming about how things should be done their way.  Even met an anti-gay pagan once, who claimed that gays violated the natural balance of masculine and feminine.

*rigorists are the kinds of people who put the "fundie" in "fundamentalist".  Effectively, consider it a synonym for "fundie".
There's always going to be idiots. There's just less pagan idiots. My parents are pagans and do pretty much live by "Do what you want, so long as it does not harm others".
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: RavynousHunter on August 11, 2013, 05:13:49 pm
Exactly, and that's all cool.  Its just, a lot of the uber-fundamentalist pricks, and even some of their lesser fundamentalist cousins, like to imply that while NOT being a prick is a good thing, that your life must be devoid of joy if its devoid of religion.  I have no religion; I am about as atheist as you can get, I reject all gods and all forms of spiritism, shamanism, druidism, and whatever else you want to be referred to as when describing your beliefs.  They have no scientific proof that any of what they say is true, and I'm fine with that.  You can believe that god's a pineapple for all I care, but I'll not recognize the assumption of its existence.  That said, I actually have a pretty decent life.  I've managed to move out of my parents' house, my family back home is doing better than they ever have before, and I'm with the woman of my dreams.

I recognize no god or divinity, and I have joy.  Don't try and imply otherwise, else I'll feel joy by kicking you in the groin.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Rime on August 11, 2013, 07:46:57 pm
The thing is, damn near EVERY religion says that they're "right."  How the hell do they know?  It actually kinda strikes me a little arrogant to assume that your religion is the one that got all the things right.  Let's just ignore the numerous scientific inaccuracies and downright impossibilities most religions teach as if they're simple facts of life.  Its down right maddening, sometimes.

Fundamentalists lack something.  I believe that it's called humility.  It's supposed to balance out your convictions and get you to admit that you're no better than anyone else.  Somewhere, people thought that Jesus wanted a bunch of lawyers who could spit his musings at people as if it's supposed to be some sort of game where you can gain XP and levels by using Scripture instead of a new nature to gain influence and prestige.   I'm pretty sure this is carried over from Catholic traditions where once they became dominant, they resorted to the same tactics as their predecessors.

As I recall, Jesus really liked lawyers who kept verbally beating people with Torah verses.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Lithp on August 11, 2013, 11:11:08 pm
RR was pretty fond of telling me that I got their beliefs "wrong" because of minor differences in wording. They were particularly stuck on the (lack of) difference between "God sends you to Hell" & "you go to Hell because of your sins."

Yeah, "you send yourself to hell" is classic blame the victim.  God still decides who goes to hell and heaven so the petty semantic differences are a moot point.  I love how they completely miss the point and instead focus on the meaningless semantics.

"So, if I send myself to Hell, then I could just not go."
"It doesn't work like that."
"Then I don't have a choice."
"You can choose to be saved."
"But if I don't, I can't just not go?"
"It will be too late."
"Then I didn't send myself to Hell, someone else forced my hand."
"You chose to sin."
"But I did not choose to go anywhere. Why would I? That makes no sense."
"Why indeed."
"You're a damn moron."
"I'll pray for you."
"That's basically what I said."
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Kat S. on September 05, 2013, 02:50:51 am
If I can say something from a Christian standpoint...

All of your posts are the main reason why I don't openly proselytize to people.  Most of you have your own rhyme and reason to believe what you want to believe, and me openly proselytizing to you is not only really annoying, but also will more than likely not persuade you into my beliefs.  I'm comfortable about sharing my beliefs, but only will share if asked.

As a Christian, even I have been proselytized to before about how I should properly worship Jesus Christ.  On a typical day, I wouldn't be considered Christian to the fundies because I'm not conservative enough or don't think exactly like they do.  However, somehow I become Christian to these same people when they try to point out that the United States is a Christian country and therefore should have Biblical based laws they want in the secular law books.  So yeah, I sometimes go through some pain myself dealing with fundies.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: SpaceProg on September 05, 2013, 03:16:29 am
^ You know something... that post could have come directly from me.
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: Alehksunos on September 05, 2013, 01:37:20 pm
I think I've already pointed this out a couple posts ago in this thread, but it bears repeating:

What pisses me off the most about this "True Christian" thing is the No True Scotsman fallacy, and that being such a huge pet peeve of mine. I've seen people who define themselves "True Christians" who are at least fucking decent people who thinks who consider the justification of judging and antagonizing the LGBT and "non-obedient" women (such as Feminists and generally women who stray away from the patriarchal roles of women) because "The Bible tells me so" is so shitty and un-Christlike, and then I see "True Christians" who are those holier-than-thou assholes I just have a hard time shaking off my head (living in a state where these people are common doesn't help at all).
Title: Re: Rant 1: Your "true" Christianity is Nothing Special
Post by: majingojira on September 05, 2013, 07:00:23 pm
Quote
What pisses me off the most about this "True Christian" thing is the No True Scotsman fallacy, and that being such a huge pet peeve of mine. I've seen people who define themselves "True Christians" who are at least fucking decent people who thinks who consider the justification of judging and antagonizing the LGBT and "non-obedient" women (such as Feminists and generally women who stray away from the patriarchal roles of women) because "The Bible tells me so" is so shitty and un-Christlike, and then I see "True Christians" who are those holier-than-thou assholes I just have a hard time shaking off my head (living in a state where these people are common doesn't help at all).

Humans have a need to feel special, part of that is exclusivity. Out of all the myriad religions, sects, faiths, and cults, only the ones who are members of their own particular brand of Christianity is the correct one and is going to heave, and has the secret. If they said that Catholics, baptists, Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses were Christianity, why then it would not longer be exclusive and they would no longer feel special. They would have to share Jesus with them, and they are jealous.