The most important announcement on this thread.

[Art Vandelay]

But as it was a remnant, it legitimizing the conquerors is just as valid as if the Emperor’s did so. Being a remnant gives it an automatic right to do so.

Is there some ancient Roman law that we're all unaware of that states that in the event of pretty much everything except the Church collapsing, said Church is to receive all authorities previously afforded any and all former institutions? In fact, is there any circumstance whatsoever in which the Pope may also be crowned Emperor? Because if not, my previous statement remains. Either succession laws must be followed to the letter at all times, or they can be changed as circumstances demand it. Pick one.

No but it’s common sense that the remnant of any fallen government inherited the powers of that government.

So you're going with succession laws can be changed as circumstances demand. Well, glad to see you've sided with reality over your stupid little "True Heir" hunt.

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

They were equal in power and influence before the Western half fell, meaning that the Catholic Church rightfully inherited the power of the Western half and be equal in succession to the Roman Empire as the Byzantines were.

The "western half" was taken by force by the Romans in the first place and wasn't there after it was invaded and collapsed, "rights" don't come into it. You don't get the "right" to own something that was stolen to begin with.

In any case, show us the specific Roman law that says the RCC gets to inherit the Roman empire! Where is it?

But the Romans were the first to bring civilization to much of the land of the Western half, where it was previously primitive barbarian tribes.

A pagan empire who called the people it subjugated barbarians because that's what conquerors always do, whose Roman pagan values led them to crucify Christ and feed his followers to the lions, or make human torches out of them to light parties.

In any case, Roman law that says the RCC gets to inherit the Roman Empire, direct question, where is it?

[Askold]

If you're really gonna go with "only civilized nations count, not barbarians" then I'm afraid we really do have to let India rule over UK.

After all, India had a rich and ancient civilization that had accepted things like LGBT minorities at a time when the British empire persecuted them and considered homosexual acts illegal. Which one of these are the barbarians in your mind?

And as Jacob seems to believe that uncivilized nations don't count, India clearly should be the one with legal power over the entire "British" empire.

[Eiki-mun]

Prove that the Catholic Church was in fact given government power and not just religious authority, because the two are very different things. You can't just assume that.

[Jacob Harrison]

But as it was a remnant, it legitimizing the conquerors is just as valid as if the Emperor’s did so. Being a remnant gives it an automatic right to do so.

Is there some ancient Roman law that we're all unaware of that states that in the event of pretty much everything except the Church collapsing, said Church is to receive all authorities previously afforded any and all former institutions? In fact, is there any circumstance whatsoever in which the Pope may also be crowned Emperor? Because if not, my previous statement remains. Either succession laws must be followed to the letter at all times, or they can be changed as circumstances demand it. Pick one.

No but it’s common sense that the remnant of any fallen government inherited the powers of that government.

So you're going with succession laws can be changed as circumstances demand. Well, glad to see you've sided with reality over your stupid little "True Heir" hunt.

Succession laws can be changed when the succession isn’t strictly heretitary because it means that there are other forms of succession that can happen, but they can’t be changed in a heretitary monarchy.

[Jacob Harrison]

They were equal in power and influence before the Western half fell, meaning that the Catholic Church rightfully inherited the power of the Western half and be equal in succession to the Roman Empire as the Byzantines were.

The "western half" was taken by force by the Romans in the first place and wasn't there after it was invaded and collapsed, "rights" don't come into it. You don't get the "right" to own something that was stolen to begin with.

In any case, show us the specific Roman law that says the RCC gets to inherit the Roman empire! Where is it?

But the Romans were the first to bring civilization to much of the land of the Western half, where it was previously primitive barbarian tribes.

A pagan empire who called the people it subjugated barbarians because that's what conquerors always do, whose Roman pagan values led them to crucify Christ and feed his followers to the lions, or make human torches out of them to light parties.

In any case, Roman law that says the RCC gets to inherit the Roman Empire, direct question, where is it?

But they were barbarians because they were primitive tribes who didn’t have a unified nation or civilization.

And while their isn’t a law about it, the Catholic Church automatically inherited the Western half of the Roman Empire due to being part of the Roman government due to being the state religion.

[Jacob Harrison]

Prove that the Catholic Church was in fact given government power and not just religious authority, because the two are very different things. You can't just assume that.

While they were just given religious authority before the Western part of the Empire fell, they automatically got political power after it fell due to it being part of the Roman government as the state religion of he Western part.

[Jacob Harrison]

If you're really gonna go with "only civilized nations count, not barbarians" then I'm afraid we really do have to let India rule over UK.

After all, India had a rich and ancient civilization that had accepted things like LGBT minorities at a time when the British empire persecuted them and considered homosexual acts illegal. Which one of these are the barbarians in your mind?

And as Jacob seems to believe that uncivilized nations don't count, India clearly should be the one with legal power over the entire "British" empire.

What I mean by barbarians is being primitive tribes without having a unified nation or civilization.

[Art Vandelay]

Succession laws can be changed when the succession isn’t strictly heretitary because it means that there are other forms of succession that can happen, but they can’t be changed in a heretitary monarchy.

So, what you're saying is hereditary rule is one giant fuckoff dead end in terms of progress and is to be avoided at all costs if one wishes to avoid eternal stagnation. Well, when you put it like that, I'm absolutely amazed more people don't take your pet cause seriously.

[dpareja]

Yes, succession laws can be changed in hereditary monarchies, because the monarch only has legitimacy so long as the people over whom the monarch is ruling agree that they do, and that includes the determination of who will rule next.

But then we already knew that you hate democracy.

[Eiki-mun]

Prove that the Catholic Church was in fact given government power and not just religious authority, because the two are very different things. You can't just assume that.

While they were just given religious authority before the Western part of the Empire fell, they automatically got political power after it fell due to it being part of the Roman government as the state religion of he Western part.

No but it’s common sense that the remnant of any fallen government inherited the powers of that government.

That's not common sense at all. In fact it's patently absurd on it's face.

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

And while their isn’t a law about it, the Catholic Church automatically inherited the Western half of the Roman Empire due to being part of the Roman government due to being the state religion.

By extension Canada, Australia, India, Ireland, Pakistan and New Zealand are all part of the British Empire.

Go tell any Canadian, Aussie, Kiwi, Pakistani, Indian, Irish or Brit that and wait for the belly laughs!

[Jacob Harrison]

And while their isn’t a law about it, the Catholic Church automatically inherited the Western half of the Roman Empire due to being part of the Roman government due to being the state religion.

By extension Canada, Australia, India, Ireland, Pakistan and New Zealand are all part of the British Empire.

Go tell any Canadian, Aussie, Kiwi, Pakistani, Indian, Irish or Brit that and wait for the belly laughs!

But Britain legally gave those countries independence.

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

Walk into any pub in Dublin and tell them the Brits "gave" them independence, I dare ya. See if your Catholicism saves you.

Britain gave independence in some cases, in others they had no choice but to cede it. Regardless one government department does not an entire government make. The head of the CSIRO doesn't get to become the Prime Minister in the event of an apocalypse, nor does the head of NASA become president when America finally implodes. That's stupid!

[Jacob Harrison]

Walk into any pub in Dublin and tell them the Brits "gave" them independence, I dare ya. See if your Catholicism saves you.

Britain gave independence in some cases, in others they had no choice but to cede it. Regardless one government department does not an entire government make. The head of the CSIRO doesn't get to become the Prime Minister in the event of an apocalypse, nor does the head of NASA become president when America finally implodes. That's stupid!

Regardless of how the territories achieved independence, Britain eventually  legally recognized them as independent nations. And in the event of government collapse, any surviving insutition does inherit the powers of the government because there are no other remnants left.