Author Topic: The most important announcement on this thread.  (Read 25440 times)

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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #105 on: September 06, 2018, 05:53:05 pm »
But the Catholic church had no authority because the Orthodox church was the church of the Byzantine Empire which was in every way the only true remnant of the Roman Empire.

Before the fall of the Latin speaking Western part of the Empire, the Catholic Church was the state religion in the Western part, an example of this is Pope Saint Leo I. The Catholic Church was therefore the remnant of the Western half of the Empire, making it also a remnant of the Roman Empire.

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2018, 07:19:00 pm »
But as the Western Roman Army and Bureaucracy was gone.
No shit, Sherlock. That's why I used the word "restore". Possibly by forming a secret society and infiltrating a foreign government in order to hijack it for that purpose. Sound familiar?

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2018, 07:58:00 pm »
But as the Western Roman Army and Bureaucracy was gone.
No shit, Sherlock. That's why I used the word "restore". Possibly by forming a secret society and infiltrating a foreign government in order to hijack it for that purpose. Sound familiar?

But the restored army and bureaucracy wouldn’t be the legitimate successors of the old army and bureaucracy. The Church was truly the only remnant of the Western half of the Roman Empire.

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2018, 08:17:45 pm »
But the restored army and bureaucracy wouldn’t be the legitimate successors of the old army and bureaucracy. The Church was truly the only remnant of the Western half of the Roman Empire.
Well then, I guess Europe in Jacob Harrisonsville is doomed to eternal anarchy, now isn't it? As I said, under Roman law (you know, that thing you're citing as the reason why the emperor's descendants are not and can never be the rightful heirs), the Church never had the authority to redraw the borders. If you think it has the right to change the rules for any reason, then you don't get to arbitrarily say that all future changes are wrong because reasons.

Pick a standard, any standard. But remember, you only get one.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2018, 09:08:56 pm »
But the restored army and bureaucracy wouldn’t be the legitimate successors of the old army and bureaucracy. The Church was truly the only remnant of the Western half of the Roman Empire.
Well then, I guess Europe in Jacob Harrisonsville is doomed to eternal anarchy, now isn't it? As I said, under Roman law (you know, that thing you're citing as the reason why the emperor's descendants are not and can never be the rightful heirs), the Church never had the authority to redraw the borders. If you think it has the right to change the rules for any reason, then you don't get to arbitrarily say that all future changes are wrong because reasons.

Pick a standard, any standard. But remember, you only get one.

But as I said, the Church was the remnant of the Western half of the Roman Empire, which is what gave it the authority to legitimize the conquerors.

Art Vandelay

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2018, 11:44:23 pm »
But as I said, the Church was the remnant of the Western half of the Roman Empire, which is what gave it the authority to legitimize the conquerors.
The laws of the land of which it is a remnant do not say that it can do that. Again, either succession laws must be followed to the letter at all times, or they can be changed as circumstances demand it. Pick one.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2018, 11:44:44 pm »
But the restored army and bureaucracy wouldn’t be the legitimate successors of the old army and bureaucracy. The Church was truly the only remnant of the Western half of the Roman Empire.
Well then, I guess Europe in Jacob Harrisonsville is doomed to eternal anarchy, now isn't it? As I said, under Roman law (you know, that thing you're citing as the reason why the emperor's descendants are not and can never be the rightful heirs), the Church never had the authority to redraw the borders. If you think it has the right to change the rules for any reason, then you don't get to arbitrarily say that all future changes are wrong because reasons.

Pick a standard, any standard. But remember, you only get one.

But as I said, the Church was the remnant of the Western half of the Roman Empire, which is what gave it the authority to legitimize the conquerors.
This whole idea is bizzare, if one institution of a government survives that governments demise it has all the privileges of that government? Do the surviving institutions of the USSR have authority over all their former territories? I know the Russian Federation would desperately like that to be true but even they know it's not!

And we aren't even talking about the whole government as is the case with Russia, just one arm of the Roman Empire that has a limited portfolio.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #112 on: September 07, 2018, 07:39:45 am »
But the restored army and bureaucracy wouldn’t be the legitimate successors of the old army and bureaucracy. The Church was truly the only remnant of the Western half of the Roman Empire.
Well then, I guess Europe in Jacob Harrisonsville is doomed to eternal anarchy, now isn't it? As I said, under Roman law (you know, that thing you're citing as the reason why the emperor's descendants are not and can never be the rightful heirs), the Church never had the authority to redraw the borders. If you think it has the right to change the rules for any reason, then you don't get to arbitrarily say that all future changes are wrong because reasons.

Pick a standard, any standard. But remember, you only get one.

But as I said, the Church was the remnant of the Western half of the Roman Empire, which is what gave it the authority to legitimize the conquerors.
This whole idea is bizzare, if one institution of a government survives that governments demise it has all the privileges of that government? Do the surviving institutions of the USSR have authority over all their former territories? I know the Russian Federation would desperately like that to be true but even they know it's not!

And we aren't even talking about the whole government as is the case with Russia, just one arm of the Roman Empire that has a limited portfolio.

The surviving institutions of the USSR are all the former Soviet Republics making them all have individual power over their own territories, just like the Byzantine Empire had authority over he East and the Catholic Church had authority in the West.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #113 on: September 07, 2018, 07:43:29 am »
But as I said, the Church was the remnant of the Western half of the Roman Empire, which is what gave it the authority to legitimize the conquerors.
The laws of the land of which it is a remnant do not say that it can do that. Again, either succession laws must be followed to the letter at all times, or they can be changed as circumstances demand it. Pick one.

But as it was a remnant, it legitimizing the conquerors is just as valid as if the Emperor’s did so. Being a remnant gives it an automatic right to do so.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 07:49:00 am by Jacob Harrison »

Offline Askold

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #114 on: September 07, 2018, 08:07:25 am »
But it's not even a remnant of the authority. An individual McDonald's burger joint that is sold to a different franchise does not inherit the authority of the McD corporation. Especially not when the McD corporation still exists even if they sell one of the former locations they had.


If being the state church gives some sort of authority, then that authority would have been with the Orthodox church as it remained the state church as it always had been. All this talk about "state church" completely ignores the historical fact that Edict of Thessalonica made Nicene Christianity the state religion and even though both Catholic and Orthodox church are part of that branch of Christianity the capital of the Empire was moved to Constantinople which means that the Orthodox church is the one that was the most powerful sub-branch of Christianity within Roman Empire.
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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #115 on: September 07, 2018, 08:37:16 am »
But as it was a remnant, it legitimizing the conquerors is just as valid as if the Emperor’s did so. Being a remnant gives it an automatic right to do so.
Is there some ancient Roman law that we're all unaware of that states that in the event of pretty much everything except the Church collapsing, said Church is to receive all authorities previously afforded any and all former institutions? In fact, is there any circumstance whatsoever in which the Pope may also be crowned Emperor? Because if not, my previous statement remains. Either succession laws must be followed to the letter at all times, or they can be changed as circumstances demand it. Pick one.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #116 on: September 07, 2018, 11:22:17 am »
But it's not even a remnant of the authority. An individual McDonald's burger joint that is sold to a different franchise does not inherit the authority of the McD corporation. Especially not when the McD corporation still exists even if they sell one of the former locations they had.


If being the state church gives some sort of authority, then that authority would have been with the Orthodox church as it remained the state church as it always had been. All this talk about "state church" completely ignores the historical fact that Edict of Thessalonica made Nicene Christianity the state religion and even though both Catholic and Orthodox church are part of that branch of Christianity the capital of the Empire was moved to Constantinople which means that the Orthodox church is the one that was the most powerful sub-branch of Christianity within Roman Empire.

Constantinople was the capital of the Eastern half of the Empire. Rome was the capital of the Western half. They were therefore equal in power and influence.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #117 on: September 07, 2018, 11:23:30 am »
But as it was a remnant, it legitimizing the conquerors is just as valid as if the Emperor’s did so. Being a remnant gives it an automatic right to do so.
Is there some ancient Roman law that we're all unaware of that states that in the event of pretty much everything except the Church collapsing, said Church is to receive all authorities previously afforded any and all former institutions? In fact, is there any circumstance whatsoever in which the Pope may also be crowned Emperor? Because if not, my previous statement remains. Either succession laws must be followed to the letter at all times, or they can be changed as circumstances demand it. Pick one.

No but it’s common sense that the remnant of any fallen government inherited the powers of that government.

Offline Skybison

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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #118 on: September 07, 2018, 01:45:39 pm »
No it's not.  Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from that masses, not from some farcical religious ceremony.


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Re: The most important announcement on this thread.
« Reply #119 on: September 07, 2018, 01:46:15 pm »
But as it was a remnant, it legitimizing the conquerors is just as valid as if the Emperor’s did so. Being a remnant gives it an automatic right to do so.
Is there some ancient Roman law that we're all unaware of that states that in the event of pretty much everything except the Church collapsing, said Church is to receive all authorities previously afforded any and all former institutions? In fact, is there any circumstance whatsoever in which the Pope may also be crowned Emperor? Because if not, my previous statement remains. Either succession laws must be followed to the letter at all times, or they can be changed as circumstances demand it. Pick one.

No but it’s common sense that the remnant of any fallen government inherited the powers of that government.

That's not common sense at all. In fact it's patently absurd on it's face.
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