Author Topic: Something About A Certain Event In The 60's That Always Bothered Me. (editorial)  (Read 3273 times)

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Offline Barbarella

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The 1969 Altamont Concert Called "Death Of The 60's/Hippies/etc."....But I disagree....about the "death" part.

Why is it considered the "death of the dream" when "roadblock", "wounding", "barrier" or "pitfall" would have been better?

When they say "death", they say the greatest lie. It irritates me to no end that people regard this setback to the inevitable advancement of humanity as a "death".

It implies that evil will always triumph. That violence & tyranny will always win. That hopelessness will forever reign. *blah blah blah*

I demand that stuff like Altamont & The Manson murders be re-dubbed "The Momentary Setback of The Love Generation/Liberal Movement/ Peace Movement/Etc."

The only thing that can kill the Sixties is January 1st 1970 at 12 am! End of a decade.

Today, we have still have The Occupy Movement, Anti-War Protest & even new generations embracing NeoFlowerkid stuff. It never died, it just went dormant.

Woodstock showed what we could be. It is possible. Woodstock had many of the exact same issues as Altamont, poor planning, overcrowding, lack of food, overflowing port-a-potties, etc. It was hellish, but most of the people were content. Sure, there were mishaps there, but those mishaps didn't get seen as some contrived death knell of hope for a better humanity.

Altamont shouldn't be seen as a killer of a hope of a new humanity, it should been seen as "Rolling Stone's Big Hell's Angel's Screw-Up".

Despite the hindrances of the Altamont violence, CONTELPRO & The Manson Family, the dream is still alive and strong albeit in other forms, youth & social movements.

I'm sick of this cloud of gloom, doom & hyper-cynicism. Look, I know humanity's flawed. I know excessive idealism can lead to disappointment. I'm not naive. But I refuse to quit believing that human is capable of great good & great improvement. I'm a "Realist-Idealist", an Idealist who's nonetheless realistic. I don't deny that humanity can be pond scum. However, I believe we as a species are dual-natured. We're not only closely related to the violent aggressive Chimpanzee, we're equally related to the gentle & kinder Bonobos.

Call me a fool, but I refuse to give up dreaming.

Offline PosthumanHeresy

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I agree. I'm sort of a half-hippie half-ball-of-rage liberal, depending on my mood, but hippies never died, they stopped being commercially viable.
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
 - Trent Reznor, Down In It

Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.

Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.

Offline Barbarella

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I agree. I'm sort of a half-hippie half-ball-of-rage liberal, depending on my mood, but hippies never died, they stopped being commercially viable.

Yep. Altamont/Manson Murders should be redubbed "The Setback Of The Aquarian Dream". "Death" implies "finality".

I think one of the reasons the Left or Progressives in general have a hard time these days is because, we're mostly fed the bad news & defeats. We focus on that & we look at stuff like Altamont as "The DEATH of The Sixties/Love Generation/etc.". It really dampens morale & makes the fight feel futile, thereby weakening that fighting spirit.

There should be a website/news source that shows good news of victories & progress in the Progressive cause. Something to give hope.

Likewise, documentaries concerning dark horrible situations should end with a hopeful tone in the way of "This is a bad situation but if we work together, we can & will change this for the better".

Instead, we get "This is the way it is. Yes, it sucks. The end." I HATE STUFF WRITTEN THAT WAY.

Then there's the fact that folks laugh at or revile the whole Flowerpower thing. Now, I understand that's not someone's style. But even if the Flowerkid thing seems annoying or one fashions are ridiculous to some folks, why revile the message? What gets me are Punk Rockers in the late 1970's hating on Flowerpower. Punk & Flowerpower are equally worthy & both are about fighting "The Man" & decrying injustice. They have the exact same grievances but just because the last holdouts of the Flower Generation aren't raging nihilists in leather & spiky hair, somehow they get ridicule. Maybe it's just a simple matter of being "outdated", like laughing at someone in today's era for wearing a leisure suit or jheri curls. I dunno.

I don't mind "dark" stuff, heck, I think Goth is cool. However, "dark" doesn't have to mean "evil", "hopelessness", "nihilism", "doom & gloom", "bad moods" or anything really negative, hopeless or malefic. Both Light & Dark have Beneficent & Malefic sides. I believe in absolute balance.

Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Exactly. I know I'm going to harp on my favorite subject again, but, well, that's one of the reasons I love Marilyn Manson. While his music is nihilistic and of a highly "screwed" viewpoint, with anyone who tries to change it being destroyed after being accepted (Adam in Holy Wood), incorporated into it (Omega and The Mechanical Animals in Mechanical Animals) or turning on those they tried to save (The Worm/Antichrist Superstar in Antichrist Superstar), Manson himself has always been an optimist. He wants to change the world, and I think he did.

I think he was the final bullet needed to critically injure the "Blame music/games/TV" reflex. He was the last great creative boogyman, and from there, they've lacked one. He killed shock, and left confusion behind. And, that's the kind of liberal I think we need. Not one who is passive, or one who is so sure they're doomed, but one who is like "You know what? Fuck it, I'll become the hated target, because the people need someone to lead them so that one day they can lead themselves". We need liberals who will change the world, even if it makes them hated by millions, who don't back down no matter what they get thrown at them.

Salt Lake City tried to arrest the band for ripping up a Book of Mormon on stage with NIN because they were banned from playing. They fled in their tour bus. Rome tried to arrest them for insulting the pope. They got the fuck out Rome, fast. The point is, we need liberals who don't give a what people think, but will speak their views and give other people the strength to do the same. Hell, I admit, had I never found Manson's music, I'd be dead. It kept me from the worst of my depression for almost a year, which lead to me ending up meeting my girlfriend right as it got to it's worse, which lead to her saving me. I know for a fact my story is not unique.

Basically, we need liberals who are not afraid to step on a few toes and piss people off. We need more liberals who go "We aren't fucked. Not only are we not fucked, you are. We will fight back against your bullshit". We need more progressive minds that aren't afraid of being a nutshot to America. Think about it, the most shocking big name is Lady motherfucking Gaga. She's doing pretty good in her own way, but we need something stronger than acceptance. We need anger at the right. Liberals are very good at miffed, annoyed and somewhat bothered. Pure rage? We kinda suck at it. We need someone to come along and re-teach pure rage.
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
 - Trent Reznor, Down In It

Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.

Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.

Offline Barbarella

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Exactly. I know I'm going to harp on my favorite subject again, but, well, that's one of the reasons I love Marilyn Manson. While his music is nihilistic and of a highly "screwed" viewpoint, with anyone who tries to change it being destroyed after being accepted (Adam in Holy Wood), incorporated into it (Omega and The Mechanical Animals in Mechanical Animals) or turning on those they tried to save (The Worm/Antichrist Superstar in Antichrist Superstar), Manson himself has always been an optimist. He wants to change the world, and I think he did.

I think he was the final bullet needed to critically injure the "Blame music/games/TV" reflex. He was the last great creative boogyman, and from there, they've lacked one. He killed shock, and left confusion behind. And, that's the kind of liberal I think we need. Not one who is passive, or one who is so sure they're doomed, but one who is like "You know what? Fuck it, I'll become the hated target, because the people need someone to lead them so that one day they can lead themselves". We need liberals who will change the world, even if it makes them hated by millions, who don't back down no matter what they get thrown at them.

Salt Lake City tried to arrest the band for ripping up a Book of Mormon on stage with NIN because they were banned from playing. They fled in their tour bus. Rome tried to arrest them for insulting the pope. They got the fuck out Rome, fast. The point is, we need liberals who don't give a what people think, but will speak their views and give other people the strength to do the same. Hell, I admit, had I never found Manson's music, I'd be dead. It kept me from the worst of my depression for almost a year, which lead to me ending up meeting my girlfriend right as it got to it's worse, which lead to her saving me. I know for a fact my story is not unique.

Basically, we need liberals who are not afraid to step on a few toes and piss people off. We need more liberals who go "We aren't fucked. Not only are we not fucked, you are. We will fight back against your bullshit". We need more progressive minds that aren't afraid of being a nutshot to America. Think about it, the most shocking big name is Lady motherfucking Gaga. She's doing pretty good in her own way, but we need something stronger than acceptance. We need anger at the right. Liberals are very good at miffed, annoyed and somewhat bothered. Pure rage? We kinda suck at it. We need someone to come along and re-teach pure rage.

I agree, my friend.

Offline chitoryu12

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Exactly. I know I'm going to harp on my favorite subject again, but, well, that's one of the reasons I love Marilyn Manson. While his music is nihilistic and of a highly "screwed" viewpoint, with anyone who tries to change it being destroyed after being accepted (Adam in Holy Wood), incorporated into it (Omega and The Mechanical Animals in Mechanical Animals) or turning on those they tried to save (The Worm/Antichrist Superstar in Antichrist Superstar), Manson himself has always been an optimist. He wants to change the world, and I think he did.

I think he was the final bullet needed to critically injure the "Blame music/games/TV" reflex. He was the last great creative boogyman, and from there, they've lacked one. He killed shock, and left confusion behind. And, that's the kind of liberal I think we need. Not one who is passive, or one who is so sure they're doomed, but one who is like "You know what? Fuck it, I'll become the hated target, because the people need someone to lead them so that one day they can lead themselves". We need liberals who will change the world, even if it makes them hated by millions, who don't back down no matter what they get thrown at them.

Salt Lake City tried to arrest the band for ripping up a Book of Mormon on stage with NIN because they were banned from playing. They fled in their tour bus. Rome tried to arrest them for insulting the pope. They got the fuck out Rome, fast. The point is, we need liberals who don't give a what people think, but will speak their views and give other people the strength to do the same. Hell, I admit, had I never found Manson's music, I'd be dead. It kept me from the worst of my depression for almost a year, which lead to me ending up meeting my girlfriend right as it got to it's worse, which lead to her saving me. I know for a fact my story is not unique.

Basically, we need liberals who are not afraid to step on a few toes and piss people off. We need more liberals who go "We aren't fucked. Not only are we not fucked, you are. We will fight back against your bullshit". We need more progressive minds that aren't afraid of being a nutshot to America. Think about it, the most shocking big name is Lady motherfucking Gaga. She's doing pretty good in her own way, but we need something stronger than acceptance. We need anger at the right. Liberals are very good at miffed, annoyed and somewhat bothered. Pure rage? We kinda suck at it. We need someone to come along and re-teach pure rage.

I think one of the things that got Manson through it all, especially in the 90s and early 2000s when he was at the top of his game and popularity, was his off-stage presence. He was a shock rocker and loaded his shows (especially the early ones at small clubs) with blood, gore, nudity, and sex (though he never TECHNICALLY broke any laws). But when you got him in an interview, the dude's calm and rational. He may look completely weird and show up in full makeup until he's a Tim Burton character, but he's got a lot of intelligence and good reasons for what he does. There's a lot of messages behind his music, and he can calmly talk about it if you give him a chance.

I think it threw a lot of the band's haters off-balance when they're expecting essentially a demon on Earth and he turns out to be much smarter and more sane than them. Pretty much any interview with the guy (especially in the wake of Columbine) is a great thing to watch.
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Offline Barbarella

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Indeed!

Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Agreed. Even my mother, who does not like metal at all, respects him for his views in interviews and stuff. In fact, it's a common viewpoint I've heard from people, that they don't like the music but like him. My favorite two things from him are the speech at the Disinformation Convention in 2000 and his interview/debate with Bill O'Reilly. It helps that he's extremely shy, because it prevents him from ever actually yelling at people or trying to talk over them. The Headbangers' Ball 1995 interview is also a favorite, but not for the speaking, but because of him trying to manage first one extremely strung out person (Twiggy) and then two (Twiggy and Pogo). That said, the "Columbine: Whose Fault Is It?" column is one of the best.
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
 - Trent Reznor, Down In It

Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.

Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.

Offline chitoryu12

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Whiskey and speed.
Still can't think of a signature a year later.

Offline Barbarella

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Agreed. Even my mother, who does not like metal at all, respects him for his views in interviews and stuff. In fact, it's a common viewpoint I've heard from people, that they don't like the music but like him. My favorite two things from him are the speech at the Disinformation Convention in 2000 and his interview/debate with Bill O'Reilly. It helps that he's extremely shy, because it prevents him from ever actually yelling at people or trying to talk over them. The Headbangers' Ball 1995 interview is also a favorite, but not for the speaking, but because of him trying to manage first one extremely strung out person (Twiggy) and then two (Twiggy and Pogo). That said, the "Columbine: Whose Fault Is It?" column is one of the best.

I'm like your mom. I'm not into his music but I respect him as a person & an artist.

Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Whiskey and speed.
Space ghost? This is now a Twiggy quote thread.
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
 - Trent Reznor, Down In It

Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.

Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.

Offline Lt. Fred

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Apparently, despite the deaths of three people, there was a net increase in people alive at the event.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

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