Author Topic: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?  (Read 4342 times)

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Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2012, 08:06:40 pm »
Point to the anti-welfare assholes: even if there was rampant welfare abuse (which there isn't), that's not a reason to cut its funding. That's like saying we shouldn't have insurance companies ever because some people commit insurance fraud.

Offline m52nickerson

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2012, 08:09:28 pm »
It is very possible to exploit welfare programs such as food stamps and W.I.C. 
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Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2012, 08:15:57 pm »
It is very possible to exploit welfare programs such as food stamps and W.I.C. 

How can you exploit food stamps? You have to prove your income is below a certain amount, and if you get, say, $100 in food stamp money for the week and you only spend $85, you can't save that extra fifteen dollars.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2012, 09:11:30 pm »
It is very possible to exploit welfare programs such as food stamps and W.I.C. 

People keep saying this but they've yet to provide any actual arguments showing how it's possible.

Oh, I believe you, I know it happens, but what I don't know is the frequency or how complex it is to actually do so.

Mostly, I'm trying to encourage actual discussion and not just "Yes, it happens".  The topic creator was asking for details, not confirmation that it exists.
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Offline Joey

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2012, 10:57:48 pm »
How can you exploit food stamps? You have to prove your income is below a certain amount, and if you get, say, $100 in food stamp money for the week and you only spend $85, you can't save that extra fifteen dollars.
In my state it rolls over to the next month so you can save it up.  But yeah it's not really possible to game the system since they check your income, and it is only good for food. I suppose if someone was making large amounts of money from a contract job and not reporting it, they could game any welfare system they wanted to. But they'd also be committing tax evasion, which is generally taken a little more seriously...
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Offline Material Defender

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2012, 11:02:09 pm »
The major source of exploitation of government pensions and welfare is called "Doubledipping."

Essentially, someone holds a merit based government office and gets out with a full pension, then gets into an elected office with a different pension plan and winds up collecting both pensions. It's rare to get cracked down on because usually the people who are most likely to benefit are the old guys that get elected into office. But this is still relatively rare and generally is done by people relatively well off.

As for 'poor' welfare? People seem to misunderstand how it functions or works. I've always heard the argument that we should rip it apart because of a few bad apples, but it makes no sense to me. There's always going to be a percent of corruption. Generally there's such a small margin of money to be made that it doesn't matter overall to the government. Not to compared to double dipping and subsidy fraud, since that actually involves large sums of money.
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Offline m52nickerson

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2012, 11:02:22 pm »
Back before the Debt Cards that most food stamp programs use now they used paper bills.  The smallest bill was worth a dollar.  People would send kids into a store with a dollar food stamp each to buy a 5 or 10 cent piece of candy.  Well, we had to give the change back in standard currency.  The kids would leave and soon after the adult would come in to buy beer of cigarettes with all the change.

Now people simple buy food with their benefits cards and and trade the food for restricted items.  Sometimes that store clerks will simple ring up cigarettes or the like as something that can be purchased.  You also have people sell there cards, than report them stolen the next morning.  Of course the card has already been cleaned out and the excuse is that they had their pin number written on the card sleeve.

As far as income, well as long as people are not married and maintain a different address one can work and make money while the other does not, and qualifies for benefits.  Even with kids it can be done if the mother simply claims that she does not know who the kids father really is.

A quick Google search for food stamp fraud or welfare fraud will get you some cases.  Many do get caught, a lot more don't.
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Offline worlder

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2012, 12:25:44 am »
Back before the Debt Cards that most food stamp programs use now they used paper bills.  The smallest bill was worth a dollar.  People would send kids into a store with a dollar food stamp each to buy a 5 or 10 cent piece of candy.  Well, we had to give the change back in standard currency.  The kids would leave and soon after the adult would come in to buy beer of cigarettes with all the change.

Now people simple buy food with their benefits cards and and trade the food for restricted items.  Sometimes that store clerks will simple ring up cigarettes or the like as something that can be purchased.  You also have people sell there cards, than report them stolen the next morning.  Of course the card has already been cleaned out and the excuse is that they had their pin number written on the card sleeve.

As far as income, well as long as people are not married and maintain a different address one can work and make money while the other does not, and qualifies for benefits.  Even with kids it can be done if the mother simply claims that she does not know who the kids father really is.

A quick Google search for food stamp fraud or welfare fraud will get you some cases.  Many do get caught, a lot more don't.

Tsk tsk, those frauds could have applied such analytical skills towards careers that require them. Not an uncommon thing for a person to use their intellect to work against the system rather than with it.

Offline TenfoldMaquette

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2012, 10:33:13 am »
My experience with the welfare system has been thus: It all depends on who you talk to when you go down to the DHHS office. I've been told during three separate visits that I did, did not, and partially qualified for food stamps...and this is all with the same income and household expenses listed. I've had my household expenses go up, and upon reporting this sudden loss of income had my food benefits go down when they should have done the opposite.

Based on the calculator on their website, I should be getting close to $200/month for food...in reality, I get about $45, which (while I'm grateful I get even that) does not make up for the majority of my paycheck being eaten up by bills. After paying for gas to get to work, and buying food with whatever is left, at the end of the month I'm not only financially tapped out, but I'm eating into the change in my "savings can" to pay for what my income/financial assistance doesn't cover. And keep in mind, I don't have an extravagant lifestyle...this is paying for basic necessities like cheap, non-namebrand food and just enough gas to get to work.

Even with financial help, I'm not even able to basically keep afloat, because I fall into that gap where I technically make too much to get assistance, but my bills eat up so much of my income that I can't afford to live without aid. Unfortunately, the DHHS does not factor in bills when it makes its aid calculations, so it doesn't matter if you (as a random example) make $800/month gross (and around $695 net) but your bills are $950...all they care about is that you make $800 gross and they outright ignore the rest. They're seemingly okay with letting you starve, as long as you have a roof over your head.

As for other types of aid, I've seen SSI and various veterans aid groups completely ignore or discount the realities of people that were too messed up to work by anyone's standards. I've seen people who can't functionally move or who spend the majority of their day screaming obscenities at the wall in a fit of rage get turned down because apparently they're ruled "fit to work" under the logic that somewhere there exists a type of work they could actually do. It doesn't matter that they don't have the skills for whatever work that apparently is, or that (even if they did) that type of work isn't available where they live...all it matters to SSI is that somewhere exists a place they could theoretically make a paycheck, and thus...no help for them. And meanwhile, they're starving. Or they kill themselves, or others.

I've also seen SSI and the unemployment office simultaneously declare someone "fit" or "unfit" to work based solely on whether or not that status would require  the agency in question to aid the applicant. And no, presenting evidence of another agency declaring you unfit makes no difference to any other agency out there. I've seen them deny aid to veterans on the basis of the veteran "not having proof that they suffered an injury in the field", when said veteran has documented evidence and records provided by the fucking US Military that says otherwise. I've seen those agencies fuck around deciding the case of a 100% disabled individual for thirteen fucking years before they finally caved, and they only did so because they were threatened with legal action.

So no, it's not easy to game the system. It's damned hard to even get a pittance when you're in desperate need and with legitimate, immediate need of assistance. I talked a bit about how what you get is often determined by who you talk to, but really...for the few people out there who somehow manage to game the system? I have no idea how they do it, aside from luck.

Offline nickiknack

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2012, 10:36:19 am »
What people forget is that a lot of states have work requirements and cut off dates included onto food stamps, all one has to do is a Internet search, not to mention that most of those that receive such services are either children or the elderly.

Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2012, 11:39:40 am »
One of my criticisms of TNAF is that it is state dependent and do you really trust Texas to make it right

Offline Material Defender

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2012, 01:08:42 pm »
Kansas kicked several thousand children off the SCHIP program, despite it being a federally funded program. I don't get it. The Funds are Federal, btu the determination of who gets it is State? That just doesn't begin to make a lick of sense.
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Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2012, 02:58:31 pm »
They think it's cause states know their citizens better? ???

Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2012, 03:10:17 pm »
It's also easier to allow the state to handle it. It's easier to divide a task into fifty things than it is to have one giant thing running everything.

Offline worlder

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Re: It is possible to exploit welfare in the US?
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2012, 04:23:23 pm »
It seems to me that to game the system one has expend a lot of effort and risk being put in jail.

Is it really worth it? The rewards seem meager compared to the investment involve.