Author Topic: The Ultimate Question  (Read 10052 times)

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Offline Skybison

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2018, 09:59:24 am »
1. It is true that salvation comes from faith and good works.

No it doesn't.  Good works alone.  God doesn't care about faith.

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Private charities are a more effective way of helping the poor.


Private charities are far less helpful to the poor because they don't have anywhere near the budget government programs do.  At any rate:

DIRECT QUESTION: How much of your income to you give to charity? 

Because even if that's all true, you will still go to hell unless it's a lot.

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And the sick will still be taken care of under Trumpcare.

False: The CBO studied it and found that 26 500 people will die every year if Trumpcare is passed.

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In fact Trump is doing a better job taking care of the poor because the unemployment rate is low, the economy is doing well, and he is trying to preserve American industries and keep jobs in America.

He also is starting a trade war that will destroy the world's economy, and countries that are far more socialist then the US (Ie Norway) have far less poverty then the US.

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2. Strangers are welcome if they come here LEGALLY, either by legal immigration or legal asylum status. Not enforcing the immigration laws makes it worse for America's poor because the illegal immigrants take their jobs.

The bible says nothing about legal or illegal.  Please show me where if you don't believe me.  Only that you must welcome the stranger.  Trying to find excuses to not do so like "That DREAMER was brought here illegally when he was a year old, so kick him out!" will not impress God and you will go to hell for it.  And of course you have all the things republicans are doing to not welcome legal strangers like Trump's Muslim ban.  If you support the ban you will go to hell.

People who vote Democrat support killing babies.

Exactly.

If you are talking about abortion, the bible never says that abortion is bad, and lots about helping the poor. 

Face it Jacob, when you die and meet Jesus he's going to be wearing a "I'm with Her" or "Feel the Bern" shirt and once he sees your MAGA hat it's off to the lake of fire with you. 

Even if you don't think that's likely, shouldn't you switch sides politically just in case?

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2018, 12:48:58 pm »
1. It is true that salvation comes from faith and good works.

No it doesn't.  Good works alone.  God doesn't care about faith.

That contradicts Church dogma and the Bible.

“[16] For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. [18] He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19] And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. [20] For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved.”

So you must do good works and  have faith to be saved.

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Private charities are a more effective way of helping the poor.


Private charities are far less helpful to the poor because they don't have anywhere near the budget government programs do.  At any rate:

DIRECT QUESTION: How much of your income to you give to charity? 

Because even if that's all true, you will still go to hell unless it's a lot.

Because the charities only focus on what is neccesary, which is actually helping the poor while the government programs make people dependent on them and providing excess welfare which encourages laziness and doesn’t help in the long run. I am going to college so I am not making income, but in the future I will use the income I need to take care of myself and give a lot to charity.

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And the sick will still be taken care of under Trumpcare.

False: The CBO studied it and found that 26 500 people will die every year if Trumpcare is passed.

Nowhere in this article does it say that. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52486 The CBO said that the amount of people uninsured will increase by 24 million because the penalties will be repealed, so people will have the freedom to choose whether to be covered by health insurance. It will also reduce the federal deficit, so it will overall be a benefit. People will still be insured if they want to.

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In fact Trump is doing a better job taking care of the poor because the unemployment rate is low, the economy is doing well, and he is trying to preserve American industries and keep jobs in America.

He also is starting a trade war that will destroy the world's economy, and countries that are far more socialist then the US (Ie Norway) have far less poverty then the US.

The trade war in the long run will keep jobs in America and will cause more fair trade deals to be negotiated, because China and the other countries won’t want their economies destroyed.

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2. Strangers are welcome if they come here LEGALLY, either by legal immigration or legal asylum status. Not enforcing the immigration laws makes it worse for America's poor because the illegal immigrants take their jobs.

The bible says nothing about legal or illegal.  Please show me where if you don't believe me.  Only that you must welcome the stranger.  Trying to find excuses to not do so like "That DREAMER was brought here illegally when he was a year old, so kick him out!" will not impress God and you will go to hell for it.  And of course you have all the things republicans are doing to not welcome legal strangers like Trump's Muslim ban.  If you support the ban you will go to hell.

That is because you need to put the Bible into historcal context. There were no border laws back then, and while it said to give food and clothing to the strangers, it does not say to let them become in your society. Ancient Israel still had immigration laws that required assimilation by converting and getting circumcised. And the Muslim ban is to protect America from Muslim terrorist attacks. That is why America has had far less attacks than in Europe.

People who vote Democrat support killing babies.

Exactly.

If you are talking about abortion, the bible never says that abortion is bad, and lots about helping the poor. 

Face it Jacob, when you die and meet Jesus he's going to be wearing a "I'm with Her" or "Feel the Bern" shirt and once he sees your MAGA hat it's off to the lake of fire with you. 

Even if you don't think that's likely, shouldn't you switch sides politically just in case?
[/quote]

Jesus is on the side of the Republicans because they promote Christianity, and oppose abortion and gay marriage.

Offline Svata

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2018, 12:59:31 pm »
Jacob doesn't seem to have responded to me re: "Creating beings and giving them free will to do as they will and then torturing them if they don't do as you say" being an asshole thing to do.


Jacob, direct question: Is that an asshole thing to do? If not, why?
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Offline dpareja

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2018, 01:03:26 pm »
Unemployment figures say shit about the state of the economy and how it's working for those at the bottom. It's easy to have 0% unemployment.

EDIT: Also, Jakey-boy, if you're going to accept such a glib generalization of Democratic voters, I'll also say that people who vote Republican support killing schoolchildren, and that people who give (or have given at some point since 2002) even one cent to the Catholic Church support sexually assaulting minors.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 01:21:19 pm by dpareja »
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2018, 03:01:13 pm »
Jacob doesn't seem to have responded to me re: "Creating beings and giving them free will to do as they will and then torturing them if they don't do as you say" being an asshole thing to do.


Jacob, direct question: Is that an asshole thing to do? If not, why?

It is not, because our free will gives us responsibility over our actions, so God is angry when people choose to disobey him. We are supposed to do what God says.

Art Vandelay

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2018, 03:18:59 pm »
This does raise one very important question. If Sky Wizard is so butthurt because I'm spending an hour a week singing songs about how he's just the bee's knees, he could always just tell me himself. I'm sure you're going to say next that he sent you to do exactly that, in which case I would counter that if you are the best he can do, then that's just pathetic and if anything says that he's not worth worshipping even if he does exist (which he very much doesn't).

Not that it's not a stupid idea in the first place for his all-powerful self to outsource such an oh-so important duty, but you can't deny that standards have really been slipping as of late. 2000 years ago, his man could walk on water, raise the dead and generate infinite fish and bread. Today, his guy obsesses over his second cousin's towel wearing ways and still in this day and age thinks that national governments should be one guy's personal property. A compelling case, you most certainly do not make, my denim loving, testicle hating, totalitarianism advocating friend.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2018, 05:15:30 pm »
This does raise one very important question. If Sky Wizard is so butthurt because I'm spending an hour a week singing songs about how he's just the bee's knees, he could always just tell me himself. I'm sure you're going to say next that he sent you to do exactly that, in which case I would counter that if you are the best he can do, then that's just pathetic and if anything says that he's not worth worshipping even if he does exist (which he very much doesn't).

Not that it's not a stupid idea in the first place for his all-powerful self to outsource such an oh-so important duty, but you can't deny that standards have really been slipping as of late. 2000 years ago, his man could walk on water, raise the dead and generate infinite fish and bread. Today, his guy obsesses over his second cousin's towel wearing ways and still in this day and age thinks that national governments should be one guy's personal property. A compelling case, you most certainly do not make, my denim loving, testicle hating, totalitarianism advocating friend.

He sent me to tell you just as he sends angels and prophets to do his bidding. He works in mysterious ways.

Art Vandelay

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2018, 05:41:22 pm »
This does raise one very important question. If Sky Wizard is so butthurt because I'm spending an hour a week singing songs about how he's just the bee's knees, he could always just tell me himself. I'm sure you're going to say next that he sent you to do exactly that, in which case I would counter that if you are the best he can do, then that's just pathetic and if anything says that he's not worth worshipping even if he does exist (which he very much doesn't).

Not that it's not a stupid idea in the first place for his all-powerful self to outsource such an oh-so important duty, but you can't deny that standards have really been slipping as of late. 2000 years ago, his man could walk on water, raise the dead and generate infinite fish and bread. Today, his guy obsesses over his second cousin's towel wearing ways and still in this day and age thinks that national governments should be one guy's personal property. A compelling case, you most certainly do not make, my denim loving, testicle hating, totalitarianism advocating friend.

He sent me to tell you just as he sends angels and prophets to do his bidding. He works in mysterious ways.

Yeah, mysterious is right. He sends Tweedledee here to proselytise when he (presumably) knows full well that all it would take is a simple direct confirmation. Just a "Hi, how you going? Just so you know, I'm actually real, and if you don't sing songs about how fucking great I am for an hour per week, I'll roast your balls off." would do the job just fine in and take only about ten seconds.

I guess he's just not, shall we say, particularly results oriented.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2018, 08:45:19 pm »
This does raise one very important question. If Sky Wizard is so butthurt because I'm spending an hour a week singing songs about how he's just the bee's knees, he could always just tell me himself. I'm sure you're going to say next that he sent you to do exactly that, in which case I would counter that if you are the best he can do, then that's just pathetic and if anything says that he's not worth worshipping even if he does exist (which he very much doesn't).

Not that it's not a stupid idea in the first place for his all-powerful self to outsource such an oh-so important duty, but you can't deny that standards have really been slipping as of late. 2000 years ago, his man could walk on water, raise the dead and generate infinite fish and bread. Today, his guy obsesses over his second cousin's towel wearing ways and still in this day and age thinks that national governments should be one guy's personal property. A compelling case, you most certainly do not make, my denim loving, testicle hating, totalitarianism advocating friend.

He sent me to tell you just as he sends angels and prophets to do his bidding. He works in mysterious ways.
Frankly if all the embodiment of a thousand billion galaxies can be bothered with is one sexually repressed, manipulative, uninspiring, intellectually dishonest, democracy hating pissant he can't be that fussed about what we do or don't think of him

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2018, 09:35:27 pm »
This does raise one very important question. If Sky Wizard is so butthurt because I'm spending an hour a week singing songs about how he's just the bee's knees, he could always just tell me himself. I'm sure you're going to say next that he sent you to do exactly that, in which case I would counter that if you are the best he can do, then that's just pathetic and if anything says that he's not worth worshipping even if he does exist (which he very much doesn't).

Not that it's not a stupid idea in the first place for his all-powerful self to outsource such an oh-so important duty, but you can't deny that standards have really been slipping as of late. 2000 years ago, his man could walk on water, raise the dead and generate infinite fish and bread. Today, his guy obsesses over his second cousin's towel wearing ways and still in this day and age thinks that national governments should be one guy's personal property. A compelling case, you most certainly do not make, my denim loving, testicle hating, totalitarianism advocating friend.

He sent me to tell you just as he sends angels and prophets to do his bidding. He works in mysterious ways.
Frankly if all the embodiment of a thousand billion galaxies can be bothered with is one sexually repressed, manipulative, uninspiring, intellectually dishonest, democracy hating pissant he can't be that fussed about what we do or don't think of him

God is trying to have you converted through me, but your wickedness is preventing you from converting.

“For this they are wilfully ignorant of, that the heavens were before, and the earth out of water, and through water, consisting by the word of God.” 2 Peter 3:5 Dhouy-Rheims version

“Unto the end, a psalm for David. The fool hath said in his heart: There is no God, They are corrupt, and are become abominable in their ways: there is none that doth good, no not one.”  Psalm 14:1

“And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient;” Romans 1:28

Please repent while you are still alive.

Offline dpareja

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2018, 10:31:23 pm »
Well of course the book that is pitching this whole "Christian God" concept would tell you that you're dumb and wicked for not buying what it's selling.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2018, 10:46:14 pm »
As art said, this Jesus fella is getting sloppy. Back in the day we get reports of cured lepers, shimmying on water and going for a stroll after being, scourged, stabbed, stapled and killed. Also, free nibbles and vino, mate that'll get me into a boring town meeting or an art show that's pretentious! Now all we have accoring to you is...you.

You are not convincing, the last heroin addict I knew who told me she totally had a handle on her habit before we evicted her for minor theft and upaid rent was more convincing!

Offline davedan

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2018, 10:48:20 pm »
Shit if you go further back you could have seen God's arse if you were with Moses and the Israelites on Exodus. Or be like Jacob and actually wrestle with God.

Offline dpareja

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #58 on: August 27, 2018, 10:59:04 pm »
As art said, this Jesus fella is getting sloppy. Back in the day we get reports of cured lepers, shimmying on water and going for a stroll after being, scourged, stabbed, stapled and killed. Also, free nibbles and vino, mate that'll get me into a boring town meeting or an art show that's pretentious! Now all we have accoring to you is...you.

Go look up Sathya Sai Baba, we have videos of all of that now!
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Skybison

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2018, 12:20:42 am »
Hey Jacob, there's an expression "Their is one thing all your bad relationships have in common: You."

If every single girl you date turns out to be a bitch, maybe they aren't, maybe the asshole is actually you and you're projecting that onto them.

You're trying to convert a bunch of people but no-one is biting.  If everyone else fails to convert, maybe that isn't because everyone else is wicked, maybe that means you're the problem.

You are a sinner too, the the greatest sin is pride.  And nothing marks a prideful person more then proclaiming "I must be right about everything, so if you don't agree you must be evil."