Author Topic: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.  (Read 4399 times)

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Offline Sleepy

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2013, 06:25:51 pm »
I think most of the prisoners there are from Yemen. Last I heard, Obama hired a lawyer to try to sort this stuff out so he could release any innocents back to their own country.
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Offline MadCatTLX

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2013, 06:35:22 pm »
Eric, I wonder if it is possible to order the closure and dismantling of Gitmo as a separate action, and thereby incidentally move the prisoners elsewhere, preferably to a US base on the mainland?

So any prisoner there, innocent or not, can never leave? I think that's an even more hardcore policy than Russia's Black Dolphin prison, where only one prisoner has ever left alive.

I don't know if he could, but he should.

As I said, if he does, he will be breaking the law. Congress has forbid him to do that, and they put it in budget bills that he had to sign into law.
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Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2013, 06:45:59 pm »
I would rather have the non afgans sent to regular prision after a trial

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2013, 07:00:06 pm »
Basically, Gitmo is a clusterfuck that no one man can fix. Too many people don't want to fix it in the first place, and those that do often have conflicting ideas about how they should. Saying that Obama "broke his promise" by not immediately closing the prison and releasing everyone who should be released (while conveniently only releasing innocents, suggesting that somehow we have 100% knowledge of who's innocent and who's guilty and we're just keeping people in prison camps because RAWR AMERICA IS EVIL) is fallaciously claiming that everything is up to the president.

Believing that the president has more power than expected or that he can somehow bully everyone into following him without causing more problems than it's worth is a very common belief, and one that cannot be held if you're planning on making any coherent statements about US politics.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2013, 08:02:44 pm »
My opinion is that we should have just called them POWs.

My opinion is that most, if not all, of the people currently being detained in Guantanamo should be released, that those who can be guilty in a court of law be done so, and that the entire facility be shut down and its leaders prosecuted for war crimes. Torture is against the Geneva convention for a reason.

Yeah before leaving office, Bush and Cheney got themselves some nice immunity from persecution for any involvement in Gitmo as well as being called to the Hauge if they ever step foot outside of America.

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Offline Askold

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2013, 02:42:56 am »
My opinion is that we should have just called them POWs.

My opinion is that most, if not all, of the people currently being detained in Guantanamo should be released, that those who can be guilty in a court of law be done so, and that the entire facility be shut down and its leaders prosecuted for war crimes. Torture is against the Geneva convention for a reason.

Yeah before leaving office, Bush and Cheney got themselves some nice immunity from persecution for any involvement in Gitmo as well as being called to the Hauge if they ever step foot outside of America.

Ironbite-no one will ever be called to the carpet for this mess.

And that is the thing that annoys me the most about USA.

Their armies go across the planet acting like the world police when it suits their purposes but any US politicians and soldiers who break international laws or commit crimes against humanity are safe from prosecution. (although any US civilians who are suspected of such might be bombed to death by a drone without a trial, which can also happen to non-US citizens.)
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Offline The Illusive Man

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2013, 02:46:20 am »
My opinion is that we should have just called them POWs.
Pertaining to what declared war?
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2013, 03:34:21 am »
My opinion is that we should have just called them POWs.

My opinion is that most, if not all, of the people currently being detained in Guantanamo should be released, that those who can be guilty in a court of law be done so, and that the entire facility be shut down and its leaders prosecuted for war crimes. Torture is against the Geneva convention for a reason.

Yeah before leaving office, Bush and Cheney got themselves some nice immunity from persecution for any involvement in Gitmo as well as being called to the Hauge if they ever step foot outside of America.

Ironbite-no one will ever be called to the carpet for this mess.

And that is the thing that annoys me the most about USA.

Their armies go across the planet acting like the world police when it suits their purposes but any US politicians and soldiers who break international laws or commit crimes against humanity are safe from prosecution. (although any US civilians who are suspected of such might be bombed to death by a drone without a trial, which can also happen to non-US citizens.)

The same thing happens in other nations. Not the world police part (we're really the only nation that can afford to do so), but it's always much harder to prosecute high-ranking politicians than guys on the ground. Many laws that work against the plebes aren't very effective against the guys up top, especially the guys who write them. Not to mention that many of the actions undertaken by politicians are legally different from what the common man can do: a politician who breaks international law can't exactly be arrested by his own police force and put to trial. It's a different matter if he personally does something like murder a man, but his influence and cash are often enough to buy people off.

It's not exclusive to the United States by any means, even among first world countries. It's just that American leaders tend to have a lot of international power due to the country's power, so their actions are farther reaching and they come under more scrutiny than, say, Boris Johnson.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2013, 04:01:31 am »
You are missing my point.

It is the contrast of all the "world police" and "war on terror" etc. with USA committing the same crimes and targeting civilians etc. that makes it so bad.

This hypocrisy is just so blatant.
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2013, 05:01:32 am »
You are missing my point.

It is the contrast of all the "world police" and "war on terror" etc. with USA committing the same crimes and targeting civilians etc. that makes it so bad.

This hypocrisy is just so blatant.

A hypocrisy that exists in many, many other first world governments. It may not be hypocrisy about identical issues, but it's there. Also, I should point out that what we're doing is NOT the same as what the terrorists are doing. We're not doing good by any means, but sending soldiers to a third-world country to assassinate criminals isn't the same as people who intentionally target civilians. For the record, the US DOESN'T intentionally target civilians (as far as we know....../conspiracy). They happen to get caught in the crossfire too much to stomach because our targets are often in civilian areas and our intelligence can be incomplete, leading to us bombing the wrong people. Unless there's something going on behind the scenes, we're not exactly planting bombs in the Baghdad market to massacre children in the hopes of getting Al Qaeda to surrender.

And if you're willing to use the "Well we don't REALLY know what the government is doing" argument to argue that they're intentionally targeting civilians as part of a terror plot, I can freely suggest that Finland is behind it all.
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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2013, 09:41:48 am »
While the U.S. does not actively target civilians the way terrorists do, it really does not appear to go out of its way to avoid killing them accidentally if they just happen to be near what they feel is a legitimate target. Cast in that light their actions are not really any better then the terrorists who are targeting the government and military and just not concerning themselves with collateral damage.

And if you're willing to use the "Well we don't REALLY know what the government is doing" argument to argue that they're intentionally targeting civilians as part of a terror plot, I can freely suggest that Finland is behind it all.

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Offline ironbite

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2013, 10:15:07 am »
My opinion is that we should have just called them POWs.
Pertaining to what declared war?

War on Terror.

Offline The Illusive Man

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2013, 12:53:33 pm »
My opinion is that we should have just called them POWs.
Pertaining to what declared war?

War on Terror.

Not sure if sarcasm.
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Offline erictheblue

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2013, 07:18:17 am »
Quote from: The Illusive Man
Pertaining to what declared war?

War on Terror.

Not sure if sarcasm.

Probably not. Although Congress did not specifically declare war, they did (and continue to) authorize military action, which is the constitutional requirement for war.
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Offline The Illusive Man

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2013, 08:35:15 pm »
Quote from: The Illusive Man
Pertaining to what declared war?

War on Terror.

Not sure if sarcasm.

Probably not. Although Congress did not specifically declare war, they did (and continue to) authorize military action, which is the constitutional requirement for war.

Until returning solders actually want their benefits of course.
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