FSTDT Forums
Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: RavynousHunter on February 19, 2015, 01:30:36 pm
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At least, it is according to history.com (http://www.history.com/news/first-viking-temple-in-1000-years-coming-to-iceland). And, ya know what? This is cool as hell. I mean, the Christians get churches all over the world, and their pussy-ass saviour got nailed to a plinth of wood by a bunch of Italians. Thor killed the shit out of a wolf that could use mountains as toothpicks. I much prefer a god that's a complete badass to one that's basically Q with the intellect and self-control of a two year-old.
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Hopefully they won't bring back human sacrifice. ;D
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Hopefully they won't bring back human sacrifice. ;D
Nah. Unless its slimy douchebags like the Cock brothers. In which case, we might as well send them on their way to the next world...or the Sun.
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...Is it too late for me to join up with this faith?
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The last thing the world needs is more religion.
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The last thing the world needs is more religion.
What we want in this thread is a neopagan circlejerk, not silly things like facts.
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The last thing the world needs is more religion.
Unless they are neo-Nazis, I highly doubt most Norse neopagans are really that harmful to society. I have read about this before and from what I remember, the adherents are more about a metaphorical interpretation of Norse myth than a literal one.
You know, social justice is far from the only reason to criticise religion. Just saying.
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Well, Neo Nazis (and everyone else who isn't aware of differences between the many Norse-derived faiths) mistake Asatru for Guido Von List's Ariosohpy, which is a typical farb move on their parts. Ariosophists were the "Thule" vein of Nazi occultists, with Asatru being simple reenactment of Norse beliefs systems as we know them.
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The last thing the world needs is more religion.
More religions does not mean more religious people, though. I suspect that if they weren't Norse pagas they would be some other flavour of neopagan, or Christian or Buddhist or something.
If people are going to believe bullshit, might as well have some interesting varieties of it.
(I don't fully endorse the argument above, just thinking out loud mostly)
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A Norse temple? Cool!!!
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PZ conveniently said something a while back (http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/10/10/im-sorry-but-ive-got-bad-news-for-you-vikings/) to bolster my case. Yes, I know it's PZ, but I mostly agree with him:
I'm sorry, but I've got bad news for you Vikings
You’re all dead. Your culture is basically extinct…or more accurately, has evolved into something that doesn’t involve sea-faring raids and pillaging and slave-taking, all those stereotypical things associated with Vikings. You weren’t even all that a thousand years ago — the Vikings were one aspect of a complicated culture of farmers and merchants and politicians and fishers and city builders.
So I’m afraid that if you are calling yourself a Viking now, you’re just a silly poseur. If you’re trying to live up to Viking ideals today, you’re mistaken — no one wants to live with Vikings around anymore. Imagine a time a thousand years from now, when people try to claim the revered traditions of Americans by insisting on being called Footballers and running about in pads and cleats and punching their spouses in the head. That’s what I see in modern “Vikings”, and I say that as someone who can also claim Scandinavian descent.
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The last thing the world needs is more religion.
I have good news for you then. This isn't a new religion as much asa reboot of an old one. Still 3000, not quite 3001.
I get what you're saying. But I always say I'm not here to judge. If that's what these folk want to do, ok. At least the door to door god salesmen will be a bit more interesting in Iceland.
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Or at least get more interesting reactions, since Asatru isn't big on evangelizing.
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Relevant:
(http://oi60.tinypic.com/rk0z7q.jpg)
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The last thing the world needs is more religion.
What we want in this thread is a neopagan circlejerk, not silly things like facts.
Yes, because anti-theism is all about facts, and not a cover for yet more reactionary bullshit. The exact same kind of reactionary bullshit you find in Fundamentalist Christianity, but don't point that out, because its inconvenient.
We get it, you don't like religion. Stop beatin the horse because its long since dead. You aren't gonna convert us to your glorious, trilby-wearing ways.
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The last thing the world needs is more religion.
What we want in this thread is a neopagan circlejerk, not silly things like facts.
Yes, because anti-theism is all about facts, and not a cover for yet more reactionary bullshit. The exact same kind of reactionary bullshit you find in Fundamentalist Christianity, but don't point that out, because its inconvenient.
We get it, you don't like religion. Stop beatin the horse because its long since dead. You aren't gonna convert us to your glorious, trilby-wearing ways.
THANK YOU!
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The last thing the world needs is more religion.
What we want in this thread is a neopagan circlejerk, not silly things like facts.
Yes, because anti-theism is all about facts, and not a cover for yet more reactionary bullshit. The exact same kind of reactionary bullshit you find in Fundamentalist Christianity, but don't point that out, because its inconvenient.
We get it, you don't like religion. Stop beatin the horse because its long since dead. You aren't gonna convert us to your glorious, trilby-wearing ways.
How do you get from anti-theism, which is just one belief, to "reactionary bullshit"? Does any criticism of religion really offend you that much?
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The last thing the world needs is more religion.
What we want in this thread is a neopagan circlejerk, not silly things like facts.
Yes, because anti-theism is all about facts, and not a cover for yet more reactionary bullshit. The exact same kind of reactionary bullshit you find in Fundamentalist Christianity, but don't point that out, because its inconvenient.
We get it, you don't like religion. Stop beatin the horse because its long since dead. You aren't gonna convert us to your glorious, trilby-wearing ways.
How do you get from anti-theism, which is just one belief, to "reactionary bullshit"? Does any criticism of religion really offend you that much?
Strictly speaking, Art didn't "critizise" religion. He just complained about the mere existence of religions without providing any reason as to why religions are bad (and didn't specify that things like religious extremism, or just certain religions would be bad, that was a complaint about any religion existing.)
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The last thing the world needs is more religion.
What we want in this thread is a neopagan circlejerk, not silly things like facts.
Yes, because anti-theism is all about facts, and not a cover for yet more reactionary bullshit. The exact same kind of reactionary bullshit you find in Fundamentalist Christianity, but don't point that out, because its inconvenient.
We get it, you don't like religion. Stop beatin the horse because its long since dead. You aren't gonna convert us to your glorious, trilby-wearing ways.
How do you get from anti-theism, which is just one belief, to "reactionary bullshit"? Does any criticism of religion really offend you that much?
Strictly speaking, Art didn't "critizise" religion. He just complained about the mere existence of religions without providing any reason as to why religions are bad (and didn't specify that things like religious extremism, or just certain religions would be bad, that was a complaint about any religion existing.)
For starters, religion is based on blind faith in fantastical nonsense. Legitimising that way of thinking is most certainly a bad thing. Any shitty behavior from individuals or certain religions is just the cherry on top.
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The last thing the world needs is more religion.
What we want in this thread is a neopagan circlejerk, not silly things like facts.
Yes, because anti-theism is all about facts, and not a cover for yet more reactionary bullshit. The exact same kind of reactionary bullshit you find in Fundamentalist Christianity, but don't point that out, because its inconvenient.
We get it, you don't like religion. Stop beatin the horse because its long since dead. You aren't gonna convert us to your glorious, trilby-wearing ways.
How do you get from anti-theism, which is just one belief, to "reactionary bullshit"? Does any criticism of religion really offend you that much?
Strictly speaking, Art didn't "critizise" religion. He just complained about the mere existence of religions without providing any reason as to why religions are bad (and didn't specify that things like religious extremism, or just certain religions would be bad, that was a complaint about any religion existing.)
For starters, religion is based on blind faith in fantastical nonsense. Legitimising that way of thinking is most certainly a bad thing. Any shitty behavior from individuals or certain religions is just the cherry on top.
Well, why are you so concerned about other people's private lives?
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Well, why are you so concerned about other people's private lives?
I said religion itself is an inherently bad thing. Not that I can or should control what what people think.
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The last thing the world needs is more religion.
What we want in this thread is a neopagan circlejerk, not silly things like facts.
Yes, because anti-theism is all about facts, and not a cover for yet more reactionary bullshit. The exact same kind of reactionary bullshit you find in Fundamentalist Christianity, but don't point that out, because its inconvenient.
We get it, you don't like religion. Stop beatin the horse because its long since dead. You aren't gonna convert us to your glorious, trilby-wearing ways.
How do you get from anti-theism, which is just one belief, to "reactionary bullshit"? Does any criticism of religion really offend you that much?
Strictly speaking, Art didn't "critizise" religion. He just complained about the mere existence of religions without providing any reason as to why religions are bad (and didn't specify that things like religious extremism, or just certain religions would be bad, that was a complaint about any religion existing.)
For starters, religion is based on blind faith in fantastical nonsense. Legitimising that way of thinking is most certainly a bad thing. Any shitty behavior from individuals or certain religions is just the cherry on top.
Well, why are you so concerned about other people's private lives?
Because Art Vandelay is a trolling, contrarian turkey-head!
YO! ARTIE! I'M A SHAKTAPAGAN AND PROUD OF IT! B'WAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!
....and Ultimate Paragon is a sane, normal Christian!
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Because Art Vandelay is a trolling, contrarian turkey-head!
YO! ARTIE! I'M A SHAKTAPAGAN AND PROUD OF IT! B'WAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!
....and Ultimate Paragon is a sane, normal Christian!
Yeah, let's just say you certainly strike me as the type who'd be into that sort of thing. Being the resident new age fundie is kind of what you're known for around here.
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One of my old acquaintances can actually trace her heritage back to Leif Erikson himself. And she's fucking proud of her bloodline. I don't see any harm in this.
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OK while I have no trouble with a viking temple, and it sounds kind of cool, Neo Paganism is bullshit. It's not a re-boot of an ancient religion because quite simply we don't know enough about that particular type of religious observance. Quite frankly neo-paganism is bullshit making it up as it goes along. It is however mostly harmless bullshit, although I have my reservations about how good it is for people who already have mental health issues and am concerned about some of the xenophobia and racist hostility that can be present in neopagan bullshit. To the extent that it is people dressing up funny and pretending to be druids, vikings or whatever else, enjoy your fancy dress crackers.
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OK while I have no trouble with a viking temple, and it sounds kind of cool, Neo Paganism is bullshit. It's not a re-boot of an ancient religion because quite simply we don't know enough about that particular type of religious observance. Quite frankly neo-paganism is bullshit making it up as it goes along. It is however mostly harmless bullshit, although I have my reservations about how good it is for people who already have mental health issues and am concerned about some of the xenophobia and racist hostility that can be present in neopagan bullshit. To the extent that it is people dressing up funny and pretending to be druids, vikings or whatever else, enjoy your fancy dress crackers.
*Waits for the inevitable "Shut up, Donny".
Actually, Asatru is a example of mesopaganism. We know a good deal about Norse religion, as opposed to the wholly cut out of whole cloth Wicca.
It's like battlefield reenactment in a way, hence my use of the word "farb" to refer to Neo-Nazi believers of Asatru.
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One of my old acquaintances can actually trace her heritage back to Leif Erikson himself. And she's fucking proud of her bloodline. I don't see any harm in this.
Leif was actually a Christian. ;)
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OK while I have no trouble with a viking temple, and it sounds kind of cool, Neo Paganism is bullshit. It's not a re-boot of an ancient religion because quite simply we don't know enough about that particular type of religious observance. Quite frankly neo-paganism is bullshit making it up as it goes along. It is however mostly harmless bullshit, although I have my reservations about how good it is for people who already have mental health issues and am concerned about some of the xenophobia and racist hostility that can be present in neopagan bullshit. To the extent that it is people dressing up funny and pretending to be druids, vikings or whatever else, enjoy your fancy dress crackers.
Isn't "bullshit" strong a word?
To davedan, Art Vandelay and other "All Religious/Spiritual Belief Is EVIL!" assclowns;
Well personally, I don't like Anti-Theism bullshit. Atheism in general is fine but anti-theism is bullshit!
You see, sweetie. Only FRUMMER religion is bullshit. Normal spirituality that's not frummy, including Paganism, is NOT bullshit.
When you call my faith or U.P's faith BULLSHIT, you're putting us in the same category as freaks like Daesh, WBC, Scott Lively, Haredis, etc.
So some people are spiritual and that's an affront to your existence! It doesn't matter if that spiritual person is perfectly sane, free, open, liberal, pro-science, pro-reason & loathes religious fanaticism as much as you do! No! They're all backwards delusional idiots who belong in the Bronze Age! Well, TOO BAD...SO SAAAAD! We exist and we're you're ALLIES! We're in this together, man!
Yes, it is good to critique religions & I have no problem with Atheists & the Skeptical. BUT "TOSS THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER" ANTI-THEISTS DRIVE ME CRAY-CRAY!
When folks call my spirituality "bullshit", I don't like it. You can say that you personally find it nonsensical, fine. But when you repeatedly insult it you insult me as a person. I don't care how "cool" you think Penn & Teller is! I don't care if "Bullshit" is the "cool new term to call all spirituality"....I think ANTI-Theism is as much BULLSHIT as Religious Frummerism!
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OK while I have no trouble with a viking temple, and it sounds kind of cool, Neo Paganism is bullshit. It's not a re-boot of an ancient religion because quite simply we don't know enough about that particular type of religious observance. Quite frankly neo-paganism is bullshit making it up as it goes along. It is however mostly harmless bullshit, although I have my reservations about how good it is for people who already have mental health issues and am concerned about some of the xenophobia and racist hostility that can be present in neopagan bullshit. To the extent that it is people dressing up funny and pretending to be druids, vikings or whatever else, enjoy your fancy dress crackers.
Isn't "bullshit" strong a word?
To davedan, Art Vandelay and other "All Religious/Spiritual Belief Is EVIL!" assclowns;
Well personally, I don't like Anti-Theism bullshit. Atheism in general is fine but anti-theism is bullshit!
You see, sweetie. Only FRUMMER religion is bullshit. Normal spirituality that's not frummy, including Paganism, is NOT bullshit.
When you call my faith or U.P's faith BULLSHIT, you're putting us in the same category as freaks like Daesh, WBC, Scott Lively, Haredis, etc.
So some people are spiritual and that's an affront to your existence! It doesn't matter if that spiritual person is perfectly sane, free, open, liberal, pro-science, pro-reason & loathes religious fanaticism as much as you do! No! They're all backwards delusional idiots who belong in the Bronze Age! Well, TOO BAD...SO SAAAAD! We exist and we're you're ALLIES! We're in this together, man!
Yes, it is good to critique religions & I have no problem with Atheists & the Skeptical. BUT "TOSS THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER" ANTI-THEISTS DRIVE ME CRAY-CRAY!
When folks call my spirituality "bullshit", I don't like it. You can say that you personally find it nonsensical, fine. But when you repeatedly insult it you insult me as a person. I don't care how "cool" you think Penn & Teller is! I don't care if "Bullshit" is the "cool new term to call all spirituality"....I think ANTI-Theism is as much BULLSHIT as Religious Frummerism!
Pretty much this. I honestly couldn't give less of a fuck if somebody's an atheist, but I find even milder forms of anti-theism to be intellectually dishonest and closed-minded. Moreover, when you get right down to it, they're really not all that different from the religious fanatics they rail against.
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Hi, anti-theist here. Can't speak for Art, dave, etc, but then they don't need me to.
When I call all spirituality bullshit, I'm saying this: it's a statement about the world that isn't true. Gentle, cuddly, progressive spirituality is typically preferable to the alternative, but it's still not true, and that matters a great deal.
It's not an attack on you. I have plenty of respect for a lot of people who are vaguely spiritual or passionately religious. Everyone has false beliefs. I have false beliefs, I just don't know what they are.
Nevertheless, people make decisions based on their beliefs, and wrong beliefs lead to harmful decisions. So yeah, if I think you are wrong on something I will say so*. I can respect the areas where we are allies while still disagreeing elsewhere.
UP: I'm more than happy to discuss why you think I'm close-minded, intellectually dishonest and similar to a religious fanatic. Want me to start a thread on it?
*Contextually dependent, of course. Talking with my Catholic grandmother over dinner is not the same as a discussion forum where criticism of religion is more or less expected.
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OK while I have no trouble with a viking temple, and it sounds kind of cool, Neo Paganism is bullshit. It's not a re-boot of an ancient religion because quite simply we don't know enough about that particular type of religious observance. Quite frankly neo-paganism is bullshit making it up as it goes along. It is however mostly harmless bullshit, although I have my reservations about how good it is for people who already have mental health issues and am concerned about some of the xenophobia and racist hostility that can be present in neopagan bullshit. To the extent that it is people dressing up funny and pretending to be druids, vikings or whatever else, enjoy your fancy dress crackers.
Isn't "bullshit" strong a word?
To davedan, Art Vandelay and other "All Religious/Spiritual Belief Is EVIL!" assclowns;
Well personally, I don't like Anti-Theism bullshit. Atheism in general is fine but anti-theism is bullshit!
You see, sweetie. Only FRUMMER religion is bullshit. Normal spirituality that's not frummy, including Paganism, is NOT bullshit.
When you call my faith or U.P's faith BULLSHIT, you're putting us in the same category as freaks like Daesh, WBC, Scott Lively, Haredis, etc.
So some people are spiritual and that's an affront to your existence! It doesn't matter if that spiritual person is perfectly sane, free, open, liberal, pro-science, pro-reason & loathes religious fanaticism as much as you do! No! They're all backwards delusional idiots who belong in the Bronze Age! Well, TOO BAD...SO SAAAAD! We exist and we're you're ALLIES! We're in this together, man!
Yes, it is good to critique religions & I have no problem with Atheists & the Skeptical. BUT "TOSS THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER" ANTI-THEISTS DRIVE ME CRAY-CRAY!
When folks call my spirituality "bullshit", I don't like it. You can say that you personally find it nonsensical, fine. But when you repeatedly insult it you insult me as a person. I don't care how "cool" you think Penn & Teller is! I don't care if "Bullshit" is the "cool new term to call all spirituality"....I think ANTI-Theism is as much BULLSHIT as Religious Frummerism!
Pretty much this. I honestly couldn't give less of a fuck if somebody's an atheist, but I find even milder forms of anti-theism to be intellectually dishonest and closed-minded. Moreover, when you get right down to it, they're really not all that different from the religious fanatics they rail against.
Exactly! I have no problem with Atheists. I don't even have a problem with criticizing aspects of religions. But AntiTheists irritate me. I don't wish them harm or anything. I respect their right to live and be who they are but *GAH*!
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Pretty much this. I honestly couldn't give less of a fuck if somebody's an atheist, but I find even milder forms of anti-theism to be intellectually dishonest and closed-minded. Moreover, when you get right down to it, they're really not all that different from the religious fanatics they rail against.
UP, you would've liked Dynamic Dragon's anti-theist thread.
Christians reject the existence of all gods except their own. Anti-theists go one god further. I don't see how it's intellectually dishonest to dismiss out of hand the existence of an ill-defined and contradictory concept, but you can show me evidence for your deity and I'll change my mind.
Well, TOO BAD...SO SAAAAD! We exist and we're you're ALLIES! We're in this together, man!
I don't buy your fake accommodationalism.
ANTI-THEISTS DRIVE ME CRAY-CRAY!
That's more like it.
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There are other discussions that have been had on this forum to which I would draw parallels save only for the fact that I have no desire to stir up more shit than this discussion is already stirring up.
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OK while I have no trouble with a viking temple, and it sounds kind of cool, Neo Paganism is bullshit. It's not a re-boot of an ancient religion because quite simply we don't know enough about that particular type of religious observance. Quite frankly neo-paganism is bullshit making it up as it goes along. It is however mostly harmless bullshit, although I have my reservations about how good it is for people who already have mental health issues and am concerned about some of the xenophobia and racist hostility that can be present in neopagan bullshit. To the extent that it is people dressing up funny and pretending to be druids, vikings or whatever else, enjoy your fancy dress crackers.
Isn't "bullshit" strong a word?
To davedan, Art Vandelay and other "All Religious/Spiritual Belief Is EVIL!" assclowns;
Well personally, I don't like Anti-Theism bullshit. Atheism in general is fine but anti-theism is bullshit!
You see, sweetie. Only FRUMMER religion is bullshit. Normal spirituality that's not frummy, including Paganism, is NOT bullshit.
When you call my faith or U.P's faith BULLSHIT, you're putting us in the same category as freaks like Daesh, WBC, Scott Lively, Haredis, etc.
So some people are spiritual and that's an affront to your existence! It doesn't matter if that spiritual person is perfectly sane, free, open, liberal, pro-science, pro-reason & loathes religious fanaticism as much as you do! No! They're all backwards delusional idiots who belong in the Bronze Age! Well, TOO BAD...SO SAAAAD! We exist and we're you're ALLIES! We're in this together, man!
Yes, it is good to critique religions & I have no problem with Atheists & the Skeptical. BUT "TOSS THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER" ANTI-THEISTS DRIVE ME CRAY-CRAY!
When folks call my spirituality "bullshit", I don't like it. You can say that you personally find it nonsensical, fine. But when you repeatedly insult it you insult me as a person. I don't care how "cool" you think Penn & Teller is! I don't care if "Bullshit" is the "cool new term to call all spirituality"....I think ANTI-Theism is as much BULLSHIT as Religious Frummerism!
Pretty much this. I honestly couldn't give less of a fuck if somebody's an atheist, but I find even milder forms of anti-theism to be intellectually dishonest and closed-minded. Moreover, when you get right down to it, they're really not all that different from the religious fanatics they rail against.
UP: Please give me a lesson about intellectual dishonesty...you've got so much experience in it this should be great. Or is this just another throw away comment where you have no ability to back it up. Personally I find people who profess to be christians but who have not given away all their possessions to be intellectually dishonest.
My leather clad jane fonda loving friend: Please read what I said. While I think it's bullshit, and no bullshit is not too strong a word. I said it is mostly harmless and while it is harmless, I'm happy enough for those people to keep at it. As for the word 'bullshit' well it is used because you are believing in something which is not reflective of reality. In fact most neopagans I know of accept that it is not reflective of reality. Ergo 'bullshit'. If you are concerned that it should reflect reality or about my opinion (I wouldnt be concerned about my opinion cracker) you can feel free to show that it isn't 'bullshit'.
Donny: Shut up!
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Oh is UP talking about intellectual dishonesty again?
Ironbite-or are people disagreeing with him?
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OK while I have no trouble with a viking temple, and it sounds kind of cool, Neo Paganism is bullshit. It's not a re-boot of an ancient religion because quite simply we don't know enough about that particular type of religious observance. Quite frankly neo-paganism is bullshit making it up as it goes along. It is however mostly harmless bullshit, although I have my reservations about how good it is for people who already have mental health issues and am concerned about some of the xenophobia and racist hostility that can be present in neopagan bullshit. To the extent that it is people dressing up funny and pretending to be druids, vikings or whatever else, enjoy your fancy dress crackers.
Isn't "bullshit" strong a word?
To davedan, Art Vandelay and other "All Religious/Spiritual Belief Is EVIL!" assclowns;
Well personally, I don't like Anti-Theism bullshit. Atheism in general is fine but anti-theism is bullshit!
You see, sweetie. Only FRUMMER religion is bullshit. Normal spirituality that's not frummy, including Paganism, is NOT bullshit.
When you call my faith or U.P's faith BULLSHIT, you're putting us in the same category as freaks like Daesh, WBC, Scott Lively, Haredis, etc.
So some people are spiritual and that's an affront to your existence! It doesn't matter if that spiritual person is perfectly sane, free, open, liberal, pro-science, pro-reason & loathes religious fanaticism as much as you do! No! They're all backwards delusional idiots who belong in the Bronze Age! Well, TOO BAD...SO SAAAAD! We exist and we're you're ALLIES! We're in this together, man!
Yes, it is good to critique religions & I have no problem with Atheists & the Skeptical. BUT "TOSS THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER" ANTI-THEISTS DRIVE ME CRAY-CRAY!
When folks call my spirituality "bullshit", I don't like it. You can say that you personally find it nonsensical, fine. But when you repeatedly insult it you insult me as a person. I don't care how "cool" you think Penn & Teller is! I don't care if "Bullshit" is the "cool new term to call all spirituality"....I think ANTI-Theism is as much BULLSHIT as Religious Frummerism!
Yes, it is in fact bullshit, basically for the reasons Sigma described. As I said before, social justice is far from the only reason to criticise religion, and your poor widdle fee-fees are most certainly no reason to not criticise a worldview that's a load of made up, contradictory horseshit that's based entirely on blind faith rather than any sort of evidence or logic. You don't like it? Then fuck off and go find yourself a new age echo chamber to hang out. No one's keeping you here.
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Viking temples are very, very good things. You'll simply have to take my word for it.
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Viking temples are very, very good things. You'll simply have to take my word for it.
Thousand-year-old viking needs new temple badly.
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Viking temples are very, very good things. You'll simply have to take my word for it.
Thousand-year-old viking needs new temple badly.
Does not need to be cobblestone to apply.
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OK while I have no trouble with a viking temple, and it sounds kind of cool, Neo Paganism is bullshit. It's not a re-boot of an ancient religion because quite simply we don't know enough about that particular type of religious observance. Quite frankly neo-paganism is bullshit making it up as it goes along. It is however mostly harmless bullshit, although I have my reservations about how good it is for people who already have mental health issues and am concerned about some of the xenophobia and racist hostility that can be present in neopagan bullshit. To the extent that it is people dressing up funny and pretending to be druids, vikings or whatever else, enjoy your fancy dress crackers.
*Waits for the inevitable "Shut up, Donny".
Actually, Asatru is a example of mesopaganism. We know a good deal about Norse religion, as opposed to the wholly cut out of whole cloth Wicca.
It's like battlefield reenactment in a way, hence my use of the word "farb" to refer to Neo-Nazi believers of Asatru.
I wasn't going to comment on this thread again, but I have to say this: we actually know very, very little for certain about Norse paganism as it was originally practiced. That's because we don't have any writings from that time period to confirm our hypotheses about the details of what they believed. All the written sources we have on religion were written well after that region converted pretty wholesale to Christianity. We have general ideas about which gods the pagans worshiped, what some of their myths were, and so on, but when it comes to the details of their theology or religious philosophy we don't have anything at all. Heck, even what we know about the myths isn't necessarily reliable and might be heavily influenced by Christian themes, since Snorri Sturluson (the guy writing all this down) had a religious education and seemed to write with the intention of delegitimizing its old folklore. (For example, he explained the origins of the Aesir as a tribe of warlords from Asia that became so renowned they were treated as gods.) Ragnarok's themes are eerily similar to those of Revelations, Ask and Embla (the first humans in Norse myth) may simply be analogues to Adam and Eve, and a much of surviving medieval Scandinavian literature has a decidedly pro-Christian message. There was probably a period of time when both paganism and Christianity were practiced side by side and were influenced by each other as a result, but we don't have any "real Norse paganism" with which to compare its modern Neopagan revivals.
EDIT:
As a side note:
You see, sweetie. Only FRUMMER religion is bullshit. Normal spirituality that's not frummy, including Paganism, is NOT bullshit.
[...]
I think ANTI-Theism is as much BULLSHIT as Religious Frummerism!
I'm not antitheist or antireligious. I think that spiritual and religious beliefs don't have enough evidence to support them (and I respect any religious person who will admit at least that), but I can understand why some people are helped by believing in them.
That being said, do you know what "frum" even means?
Frum is a Yiddish term for "Holier-than-thou religious nut". I don't use "fundamentalist/fundie" anymore because it give legitimacy to religious fanaticism. It refers to "the fundamentals of the faith". Now, while frums might follow the "fundamentals", they tend to ignore the nice parts & embrace the stupid parts. Many ChristoFrums ignore Jesus' emphasis on love, non-violence, forgiveness, unconditional love, kindness, gentleness, charity, good deeds, humanitarianism, mercy, non-judgmental, etc. I can't fathom a judgmental, bigoted, hateful schlub as someone who follows all the Christ-like fundamentals.....so, I call them, "Frummers".
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I can't fathom a judgmental, bigoted, hateful schlub as someone who follows all the Christ-like fundamentals.....so, I call them, "Frummers".
You do know that the Bible has some vile stuff in it, don't you? I at least respect fundamentalists for owning up to that.
Jesus, if he existed at all, wrote nothing down. All we have are second-hand accounts that attribute kind and loving sayings to him like "I came not to send peace, but a sword....And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+10%3A34&version=KJV), and "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+19%3A27&version=KJV) And that's not even getting into the fact that the New Testament introduced the threat of eternal suffering to Abrahamic theology.
The cafeteria Christians that think Jesus had a spotless philosophy are the ones that cherry-pick worse than most fundamentalists.
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Viking temples are very, very good things. You'll simply have to take my word for it.
So this temple, will there be feasting and such? Perhaps sharing of pillage from raiding parties? Or anything Vikingesque?