Author Topic: Google facing multiple lawsuits  (Read 49467 times)

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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #105 on: September 19, 2017, 09:01:29 pm »

They do worse than get into scuffles at rallies. They make unprovoked attacks on people simply because they were there. Or have you already forgotten about the cancelled Yiannpolous talk in Berkeley? Antifa are thugs LARPing as freedom fighters. Why shouldn't I be against them?

Also, I'd like you to explain why you think the memo is "sexist" and "anti-science", preferably with direct quotes from it.
Because fishing for and cherry picking data to support your conclusion is precisely the opposite of science. When you start with this statement.

Quote
"When it comes to diversity and inclusion, Google’s left bias has created a politically correct monoculture that maintains its hold by shaming dissenters into silence."

And then thrash around looking for anything to back it up you're doing political advocacy, not science. It's the opposite of science. The scientific method gathers evidence, develops a hypothesis based on said evidence and only then starts talking about a theory. The google manifesto started with butthurt, tried to bolster the butthurt with bullet points of cherry picked statistics and then declared butthurt to be so, that's the fucking precise opposite of science.



Google guy is pretending to be the guy on the left when in fact he's the guy on the right, start with a contentious conclusion and bolster it with a bunch of sciency words is not fucking science!

Okay, first thing's first, that's a pretty serious accusation. Do you have anything to back it up? Because like I said earlier, anything that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. And I'll be looking at it, especially considering that some of the evidence you've cited in the past has been... wanting.

And unlike you, I have an example. Remember when you cited this? Well, the conclusions the study drew were based on interviews with 73 male college students, all of whom went to the same university in North Dakota. The small size alone means that there's a margin of sampling error of about +11.5%. In other words, it shouldn't be taken seriously.

Besides, I'd say that what he said was validated by his public shaming and subsequent firing. You can dress it up however you choose, but the fact remains: he accused Google of being a politically correct monoculture, and got fired for questioning the prevailing orthodoxy. If Google intended to prove him wrong by doing this, they only made themselves look worse. It's the equivalent of responding to being called violent by punching the accuser in the face.

Thanks for the link, by the way. It taught me two valuable things. First, that Gizmodo hires the most brazen liars since Gaddafi's propagandists. The article calls it an "anti-diversity screed", when one of the memo's headers is "Non-discriminatory ways to reduce the gender gap". You don't need to be Phoenix Wright to spot the contradiction.

The second is that comments sections can provide intellectually stimulating discussion, even on the laziest, most dishonest articles. I quite enjoyed reading them, so again, thanks for the link.

Direct question: how much of the memo did you actually read?

And I still can't muster any sympathy for those who wear a swastika, or a MAGA hat for that matter. Both stand for the politics of white racial supremacy but I guess, sure - you shouldn't launch uprovoked attacks on racist fuckholes not because it makes you look bad but because unprovoked attacks bad m'kay? Not gonna lose any sleep when it happens though.

Calling a MAGA hat equivalent to Nazi symbolism. Wow. You're really not helping your case.

Bottom line, ANTIFA's stated historical reason for existence, that you can't rely on the state to stop Nazis, was bourne out in Berkely, where the cops disarmed Antifa but not the right wing  thugs LARPing as freedom fighters and in Charlottsville, where Heather Heyer was killed and that African American fella was thumped with poles by Nazis mere yards a police station, the cops just sorta hung back.

If the cops cannot be bothered defending a synagogue from crowds yelling "jews will not replace us" then the good police officers of Charlottsville are essentially advertising for Antifa. You don't want an out of control anti far right counterinsurgency? Get your fucking police to do their damn jobs!

Were those claims borne out? I don't think so, at least not to the extent you claim.

First, let's look at Berkeley. Again, we seem to be encountering the problem of you not reading your own sources. Rich Black seems to be claiming that Antifa were already attacking by the time the police disarmed them:

Quote
However, if it were not for the Police immediately disarming the first wave of Antifa, whom were in a full charge against us, the event would have been shut down before it began and would have resulted in tremendous blood shed.

If you're going to take him at his word, you better make sure you understand what he's saying. Speaking of which:

Quote
As it has been established before and remains an unwavering creed: The LRA does not condone nor promote violence at the events we organize. Careful measures were taken to ensure that, among our invited detail, there were none who appeared to have any desire to engage in physical confrontation. Those who appeared to have an interest in physical confrontation were removed from this detail prior to the event.

Quote
As far as Identity Evropa, the Alt-Right and the Sacramento Workers Party who showed up to attend our event: We did not extend an invitation to these particular groups and we had many denouncements in regards to them, prior to this event. When Nathan Damigo arrived I met with him in the center of the park and I told him that because of his affiliations, that his group was not welcome to occupy our space on the stage, and he would not be provided security.

Honestly, it's kind of hypocritical for you to accuse Damore of cherry-picking to back up a conclusion he's already decided.

And as for the Unite the Right Rally in Charlottesville, again, your own article doesn't exactly support your black-and-white view of things:

Quote
Perhaps the Charlottesville police had the July experience in mind and opted to take a more hands-off approach this time around. Or perhaps they were just overwhelmed by the larger size of the rally—some 500 neo-Nazis and white supremacists, 10 times larger than the Klan march, plus hundreds of counter-demonstrators. That’s a large crowd anywhere, but it’s especially large for Charlottesville, which has fewer than 50,000 residents and a police department of fewer than 130 officers who don’t typically deal with events this size.

And that's just for starters. Again, if you're going to cite something, make sure to read it all the way through.

I agree that this was a failure for the Charlottesville police. Where I disagree is with the idea that the tragedy happened for ideological reasons, as well as the idea that it reflects a broader reality.

TL;DR Your evidence is lacking and your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #106 on: September 20, 2017, 03:09:49 am »
Okay, first thing's first, that's a pretty serious accusation. Do you have anything to back it up? Because like I said earlier, anything that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. And I'll be looking at it, especially considering that some of the evidence you've cited in the past has been... wanting.

Ooooh a serious accusation. Well, lets see if your google bro starts with a question or a conclusion.

Quote
Google's political bias has equated the freedom from offence with psychological safety, but shaming into silence is the antithesis of psychological safety.
This silencing has created an ideological echo chamber where some ideas are too sacred to be honestly discussed.
The lack of discussion fosters the most extreme and authoritarian elements of this ideology.
Extreme: all disparities in representation are due to oppression
Authoritarian: we should discriminate to correct for this oppression
Differences in distributions of traits between men and women may in part explain why we don't have 50% representation of women in tech and leadership. Discrimination to reach equal representation is unfair, divisive, and bad for business.
He concludes that Google is an echo chamber and this silences ideas. That's not a question it's a conclusion you ninny! The scientific method starts with a question about nature and then seeks to follow the evidence to where the evidence leads you. An exposition sets out an argument and then sets out to bolster it. Learn your fucking text types.

And unlike you, I have an example. Remember when you cited this? Well, the conclusions the study drew were based on interviews with 73 male college students, all of whom went to the same university in North Dakota. The small size alone means that there's a margin of sampling error of about +11.5%. In other words, it shouldn't be taken seriously.
I didn't cite it you dumbass, I just checked my internet history that website only appears the one time I followed your link. So many people are telling you that you're full of shit you're getting them mixed up.

Besides, I'd say that what he said was validated by his public shaming and subsequent firing. You can dress it up however you choose, but the fact remains: he accused Google of being a politically correct monoculture, and got fired for questioning the prevailing orthodoxy. If Google intended to prove him wrong by doing this, they only made themselves look worse. It's the equivalent of responding to being called violent by punching the accuser in the face.
Well, he must be the only person in history to be sacked for expressing views in public that make a company look bad. Your hypothetical that Google meant to prove him wrong had nothing to do with their decision, more likely Google wasn't engaging in debate they were firing an employee who was making them look stupid.

Thanks for the link, by the way. It taught me two valuable things. First, that Gizmodo hires the most brazen liars since Gaddafi's propagandists. The article calls it an "anti-diversity screed", when one of the memo's headers is "Non-discriminatory ways to reduce the gender gap". You don't need to be Phoenix Wright to spot the contradiction.
Well, let's not hurt your fee fee's-we'll call it an exposition, an opinion piece even. What it isn't is science!

Also, the author cites non discrimination? Great-he must be on the side of angels and North Korea must be a Democratic Republic!

Direct question: how much of the memo did you actually read?

Direct answer: Fuck you with a pineapple Eva Braun, but I digress.

Quote
Left Biases
Compassion for the weak
Disparities are due to injustices
Humans are inherently cooperative
Change is good (unstable)
Open
Idealist
Right Biases
Respect for the strong/authority
Disparities are natural and just
Humans are inherently competitive
Change is dangerous (stable)
Closed
Pragmatic

Shit someone better tell trade unions that right to work laws are great because they change their ability to do their fucking jobs and tell Randroid libertarians that they should stop trying to drown the government in a bathtub while they're at it because "change is dangerous" dont'cha know. That's not even good politics let alone good science that's a list of stereotypes pulled out of the authors cavernous asshole.
Quote
They're (biological differences are) universal across human cultures
They often have clear biological causes and links to prenatal testosterone
Biological males that were castrated at birth and raised as females often still identify and act like males
The underlying traits are highly heritable
They're exactly what we would predict from an evolutionary psychology perspective

Note that Googlebroz didn't cite any sources for this waffle but an actual scientific study in 2001 found:
Quote
Contrary to predictions from evolutionary theory, the magnitude of gender differences varied across cultures.

From a 2010 psychology textbook: Handbook of gender research in psychology Chapter 2 Gender and Personality

Quote
research on social context suggests that what differences do exist may be better explained by social roles and situational contexts rather than by biological sex


So, right off the bat Googlebroz exposition is rendered dust because this core assumption. That men and women like what they're like because science sez they're the same cross culturally is a pile of fetid dingo kidneys. "Science" doesn't say that male and female differences are "universal across cultures", Scientists laugh out loud and throw food at Googlebroz and he cries.

Because you lack the self discipline to stick to one topic at one time I'll punt my response to your Nazi water carrying bullshit down to Flame and Burn where I can more fully describe the myriad ways you're full of shit and just how much you repulse me.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 06:24:02 am by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Askold

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #107 on: September 21, 2017, 02:57:47 am »
Oh hey, look at this:

http://splinternews.com/google-guy-fired-for-sexist-ravings-is-back-with-a-big-1818587399

This is my "not surprised" look.

Pay attention to the progression in his messages. He goes from:
Quote
The KKK is horrible and I don’t support them in any way, but can we admit that their internal title names are cool, e.g. “Grand Wizard”?

to:

Quote
If you make the actual KKK the only place where you can acknowledge the coolness of D&D terms, then you’ll just push people into the KKK.

In a few steps.

And before someone comes in and says that he's not promoting the KKK I wish to ask: Is KKK the only place that acknowledges the "coolness of DnD terms?" Because I know for a fact that not only is that claim not true it is no different from the claims in his original manifesto. If you read between the lines you see that his messages are incomprehensible non-sequitors unless you look at them with the assumption that the subtext is "KKK is cool." Same as his "scientific manifesto" that only makes sense if his point is to claim that women are bad at tech jobs and it's their own fault.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #108 on: September 21, 2017, 04:31:18 pm »
Oh hey, look at this:

http://splinternews.com/google-guy-fired-for-sexist-ravings-is-back-with-a-big-1818587399

This is my "not surprised" look.

Pay attention to the progression in his messages. He goes from:
Quote
The KKK is horrible and I don’t support them in any way, but can we admit that their internal title names are cool, e.g. “Grand Wizard”?

to:

Quote
If you make the actual KKK the only place where you can acknowledge the coolness of D&D terms, then you’ll just push people into the KKK.

In a few steps.

And before someone comes in and says that he's not promoting the KKK I wish to ask: Is KKK the only place that acknowledges the "coolness of DnD terms?" Because I know for a fact that not only is that claim not true it is no different from the claims in his original manifesto. If you read between the lines you see that his messages are incomprehensible non-sequitors unless you look at them with the assumption that the subtext is "KKK is cool." Same as his "scientific manifesto" that only makes sense if his point is to claim that women are bad at tech jobs and it's their own fault.



Really? Are you sure it's not just you going with the worst possible interpretation?
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #109 on: September 21, 2017, 05:08:19 pm »
Oh hey, look at this:

http://splinternews.com/google-guy-fired-for-sexist-ravings-is-back-with-a-big-1818587399

This is my "not surprised" look.

Pay attention to the progression in his messages. He goes from:
Quote
The KKK is horrible and I don’t support them in any way, but can we admit that their internal title names are cool, e.g. “Grand Wizard”?

to:

Quote
If you make the actual KKK the only place where you can acknowledge the coolness of D&D terms, then you’ll just push people into the KKK.

In a few steps.

Really? Are you sure it's not just you going with the worst possible interpretation?
What's the best possible interpretation Lana? He's concerned this will happen?


"What did you roll?"
"14-88"
"Zounds, Harvey-you levelled up to a white guy!"
(Everybody)"LEVEL UP ALL, ZIEG KEKISTAN!"


BADD (Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons) were right, D&D is a gateway drug!!! Just not to Satanism and sex parties.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 06:27:22 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #110 on: September 22, 2017, 02:19:34 pm »
Oh hey, look at this:

http://splinternews.com/google-guy-fired-for-sexist-ravings-is-back-with-a-big-1818587399

This is my "not surprised" look.

Pay attention to the progression in his messages. He goes from:
Quote
The KKK is horrible and I don’t support them in any way, but can we admit that their internal title names are cool, e.g. “Grand Wizard”?

to:

Quote
If you make the actual KKK the only place where you can acknowledge the coolness of D&D terms, then you’ll just push people into the KKK.

In a few steps.

Really? Are you sure it's not just you going with the worst possible interpretation?
What's the best possible interpretation Lana? He's concerned this will happen?


"What did you roll?"
"14-88"
"Zounds, Harvey-you levelled up to a white guy!"
(Everybody)"LEVEL UP ALL, ZIEG KEKISTAN!"


BADD (Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons) were right, D&D is a gateway drug!!! Just not to Satanism and sex parties.

How do you know he's not just shitposting?
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #111 on: September 22, 2017, 02:38:09 pm »
Shitposting is literally all he does.

Shitposting got him sacked!

Offline Askold

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #112 on: September 22, 2017, 02:38:52 pm »
How do I know that he's not a spider wearing a suit made out of human skin?
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #113 on: September 22, 2017, 03:11:45 pm »
And unlike you, I have an example. Remember when you cited this? Well, the conclusions the study drew were based on interviews with 73 male college students, all of whom went to the same university in North Dakota. The small size alone means that there's a margin of sampling error of about +11.5%. In other words, it shouldn't be taken seriously.
I didn't cite it you dumbass, I just checked my internet history that website only appears the one time I followed your link. So many people are telling you that you're full of shit you're getting them mixed up.

http://forums.fstdt.net/index.php?topic=18.msg305431#msg305431

Uh huh.



Besides, I'd say that what he said was validated by his public shaming and subsequent firing. You can dress it up however you choose, but the fact remains: he accused Google of being a politically correct monoculture, and got fired for questioning the prevailing orthodoxy. If Google intended to prove him wrong by doing this, they only made themselves look worse. It's the equivalent of responding to being called violent by punching the accuser in the face.
Well, he must be the only person in history to be sacked for expressing views in public that make a company look bad. Your hypothetical that Google meant to prove him wrong had nothing to do with their decision, more likely Google wasn't engaging in debate they were firing an employee who was making them look stupid.

He didn't intend to express them in public. It was an internal memo that got leaked. And Google's response was a clearly just trying to avoid the conversation.

Thanks for the link, by the way. It taught me two valuable things. First, that Gizmodo hires the most brazen liars since Gaddafi's propagandists. The article calls it an "anti-diversity screed", when one of the memo's headers is "Non-discriminatory ways to reduce the gender gap". You don't need to be Phoenix Wright to spot the contradiction.
Well, let's not hurt your fee fee's-we'll call it an exposition, an opinion piece even. What it isn't is science!

Also, the author cites non discrimination? Great-he must be on the side of angels and North Korea must be a Democratic Republic!

*sighs* You know, if he were half as sexist as you claim, he probably wouldn't be suggesting what he thinks are better ways to reduce the gender gap:

Quote
Non-discriminatory ways to reduce the gender gap
Below I'll go over some of the differences in distribution of traits between men and women that I
outlined in the previous section and suggest ways to address them to increase women's
representation in tech without resorting to discrimination. Google is already making strides in
many of these areas, but I think it's still instructive to list them:
● Women on average show a higher interest in people and men in things
○ We can make software engineering more people-oriented with pair programming
and more collaboration. Unfortunately, there may be limits to how
people-oriented certain roles at Google can be and we shouldn't deceive
ourselves or students into thinking otherwise (some of our programs to get
female students into coding might be doing this).
● Women on average are more cooperative
○ Allow those exhibiting cooperative behavior to thrive. Recent updates to Perf may
be doing this to an extent, but maybe there's more we can do.
○ This doesn't mean that we should remove all competitiveness from Google.
Competitiveness and self reliance can be valuable traits and we shouldn't
necessarily disadvantage those that have them, like what's been done in
education.

But of course, this won't convince you. You've decided that he's a woman-hater, and you'll ignore or rationalize any evidence to the contrary.

I have to give you some credit, however. At least you're actually looking at the manifesto.

Quote
They're (biological differences are) universal across human cultures
They often have clear biological causes and links to prenatal testosterone
Biological males that were castrated at birth and raised as females often still identify and act like males
The underlying traits are highly heritable
They're exactly what we would predict from an evolutionary psychology perspective

Note that Googlebroz didn't cite any sources for this waffle but an actual scientific study in 2001 found:
Quote
Contrary to predictions from evolutionary theory, the magnitude of gender differences varied across cultures.

From a 2010 psychology textbook: Handbook of gender research in psychology Chapter 2 Gender and Personality

Quote
research on social context suggests that what differences do exist may be better explained by social roles and situational contexts rather than by biological sex


So, right off the bat Googlebroz exposition is rendered dust because this core assumption. That men and women like what they're like because science sez they're the same cross culturally is a pile of fetid dingo kidneys. "Science" doesn't say that male and female differences are "universal across cultures", Scientists laugh out loud and throw food at Googlebroz and he cries.

Okay, fine. Let's do things your way. For the moment, let's assume he was wrong. Did he really deserve to be fired? Did he really deserve to be raked over the coals? Even if he's incorrect, I don't think he deserved to be smeared as a sexist.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #114 on: September 22, 2017, 03:17:44 pm »
Yep, shit. I did cite it. Forgot about that.

Anyhoo-like you he's trollin', unlike you he's dumb enough to do it using his real name while referencing the company he works for.

Nah, don't care.

Next?

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #115 on: September 22, 2017, 04:07:48 pm »
I think we've actually made some progress Lana, this isn't about science. It's a labor dispute, that's cool-I'm no scientist but I'm a trade unionist, I can do labor disputes and no, I don't think a faceless multinational is acting out of the goodness of it's stone cold heart.

What happened here was that there's a company embroiled in a labor dispute with some women employees claiming wage discrimination on the basis of gender. Some idiot puts on company letterhead that OF COURSE male employees are better than women...it gets out.

Their HR department does this:



Their legal department does this:



The plaintiffs bringing the case against Google do this:



Because this gimboid just put tried to justify the shit Google are trying to say never happens in a company communication which looks just great in court.

Of course they fucking sacked the idiot, he didn't give them a choice. And yes, in any jurisdiction I've heard of private communications that mention company policy are public the moment they get out. If you privately text message to the bosses favorite toady that he picks his nose and eats it and it hits the local papers-hell yes he has grounds to sack you! Even if he makes the call over a bowl of his own boiled snot.

This wasn't a whistleblower speaking truth to power, this was a shithead talking shit about an issue that was currently before the courts in an internal Memo that presumably had cute copyrighted Google doodles all over it!

That's just dense Lana, it's science!


« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 07:35:18 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #116 on: September 22, 2017, 09:34:41 pm »
What.

Okay, this little theory of yours... it holds absolutely no water. Damore was fired on August 7. The plaintiffs didn't file their suit against Google until over a month later. So unless time suddenly became non-linear and nobody told me, what you're suggesting is factually wrong. How hard is it to check a couple of dates?
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #117 on: September 22, 2017, 09:43:56 pm »
The Department of Labor sued Google for discriminatory practices in January, Google boy does his brain fart. Then women file suit themselves. Good timing, he gave 'em some good ammo.

Google had been fighting against allegations of systematically underpaying its female employees in court prior to sacking him.

Quote
The initial lawsuit was initiated when the company didn’t turn over some requested data on employee compensation during a September 2015 audit

As said in your OP, multiple lawsuits, Lana.

If this is a work rights issue I'll side with the female employees, they want to get a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. He's just an idiot!

Link's up there, I'll try to remember. Feel free to check the dates.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 09:55:06 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #118 on: September 23, 2017, 11:38:14 am »
The Department of Labor sued Google for discriminatory practices in January, Google boy does his brain fart. Then women file suit themselves. Good timing, he gave 'em some good ammo.

Google had been fighting against allegations of systematically underpaying its female employees in court prior to sacking him.

Quote
The initial lawsuit was initiated when the company didn’t turn over some requested data on employee compensation during a September 2015 audit

As said in your OP, multiple lawsuits, Lana.

If this is a work rights issue I'll side with the female employees, they want to get a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. He's just an idiot!

Link's up there, I'll try to remember. Feel free to check the dates.

Again, what.

I say that because you said something completely different up above. This is what you said earlier:

What happened here was that there's a company embroiled in a labor dispute with some women employees claiming wage discrimination on the basis of gender. Some idiot puts on company letterhead that OF COURSE male employees are better than women...it gets out.

I don't see the labor department mentioned anywhere in your original post. Can you really blame me for not knowing what you were talking about?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 11:45:19 am by Lana Reverse »
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #119 on: September 23, 2017, 06:09:08 pm »
You could have very well looked it up, Lana.

You know, Google it.
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