Fairly substantial massacre in Egypt.

[Meshakhad]

Oh shit!

This is not good...

(my actual verbal reaction upon coming into the gym and seeing CNN on the TV with the words "200+ dead")

[Old Viking]

"Move along, folks.  Nuthin' to see here.  Politics in the Mid-East, folks.  Nuthin' to see.  Move along, please."

[niam2023]

Meh, business as usual in the Middle East, Egypt in particular. I daresay that power is given sustenance by blood in Egypt. We're not going to see that change any time soon.

We may abhor Might Makes Right, but perhaps that is the only Right many people have ever known.

Perhaps.

All I can say is that I have decided which evil I support. I am not saying which.

[PosthumanHeresy]

At this point, I almost would prefer the first world nations marching in and taking complete control of the Middle East. Not forever, but at least until everyone living there now is dead of old age. They've proven themselves unable to handle freedom and independence at all, so it should be taken, just like any criminals'. Sure, there's good people, but they'll just be oppressed and murdered by the people with power, so, fuck you, Middle East.

[ironbite]

Oh yes because that's worked so well in the past.

[Sigmaleph]

At this point, I almost would prefer the first world nations marching in and taking complete control of the Middle East. Not forever, but at least until everyone living there now is dead of old age. They've proven themselves unable to handle freedom and independence at all, so it should be taken, just like any criminals'. Sure, there's good people, but they'll just be oppressed and murdered by the people with power, so, fuck you, Middle East.

I don't see how spending a couple generations under foreign control is supposed to prepare them for independence.

[PosthumanHeresy]

At this point, I almost would prefer the first world nations marching in and taking complete control of the Middle East. Not forever, but at least until everyone living there now is dead of old age. They've proven themselves unable to handle freedom and independence at all, so it should be taken, just like any criminals'. Sure, there's good people, but they'll just be oppressed and murdered by the people with power, so, fuck you, Middle East.

I don't see how spending a couple generations under foreign control is supposed to prepare them for independence.

Build a quality school system, water, farming, industry and generally improve things. Use the new power to wipe out the Taliban. Force gender equality on them, because I don't give a shit if they like it or not, and anyone who cares about women would agree.

[ironbite]

YES BECAUSE FORCED CHANGE IS ALWAYS LASTING CHANGE!

[PosthumanHeresy]

YES BECAUSE FORCED CHANGE IS ALWAYS LASTING CHANGE!

And no change is change, right? Forced change does sometimes last, and sometimes, for the better. I doubt anyone would say France should go back to pre-revolution monarchy. I doubt anyone would suggest the Germany or Japan should return to being militaristic. The idea is, actually improve things for them, grant them first world level living conditions, quality modern medicine, education, equality and society. Wait until the only generations alive are those that have always lived under it.

[Art Vandelay]

At this point, I almost would prefer the first world nations marching in and taking complete control of the Middle East. Not forever, but at least until everyone living there now is dead of old age. They've proven themselves unable to handle freedom and independence at all, so it should be taken, just like any criminals'. Sure, there's good people, but they'll just be oppressed and murdered by the people with power, so, fuck you, Middle East.

Oh piss off. Have you any idea how expensive it's been, in terms of both money and lives, to hold just Afghanistan and Iraq? Try to invade and occupy the entire Middle East and we'll all end up like Greece within a week.

My own country only recently got out of the money sinkhole that was Iraq. Personally, I'd rather keep it that way.

[SimSim]

At this point, I almost would prefer the first world nations marching in and taking complete control of the Middle East. Not forever, but at least until everyone living there now is dead of old age. They've proven themselves unable to handle freedom and independence at all, so it should be taken, just like any criminals'. Sure, there's good people, but they'll just be oppressed and murdered by the people with power, so, fuck you, Middle East.

Oh yay, the white man's burden strikes again! I'm sure it'll work out just as well as it did in the past.

[PosthumanHeresy]

At this point, I almost would prefer the first world nations marching in and taking complete control of the Middle East. Not forever, but at least until everyone living there now is dead of old age. They've proven themselves unable to handle freedom and independence at all, so it should be taken, just like any criminals'. Sure, there's good people, but they'll just be oppressed and murdered by the people with power, so, fuck you, Middle East.

Oh piss off. Have you any idea how expensive it's been, in terms of both money and lives, to hold just Afghanistan and Iraq? Try to invade and occupy the entire Middle East and we'll all end up like Greece within a week.

My own country only recently got out of the money sinkhole that was Iraq. Personally, I'd rather keep it that way.

I'd support it as a UN effort, not 'Murica.

At this point, I almost would prefer the first world nations marching in and taking complete control of the Middle East. Not forever, but at least until everyone living there now is dead of old age. They've proven themselves unable to handle freedom and independence at all, so it should be taken, just like any criminals'. Sure, there's good people, but they'll just be oppressed and murdered by the people with power, so, fuck you, Middle East.

Oh yay, the white man's burden strikes again! I'm sure it'll work out just as well as it did in the past.

More like, "Could we, oh, idk, perhaps help out instead of just shipping shit there and praying that works?"

[Art Vandelay]

I'd support it as a UN effort, not 'Murica.

And where would the troops and funding ultimately come from?

[PosthumanHeresy]

I'd support it as a UN effort, not 'Murica.

And where would the troops and funding ultimately come from?

It wouldn't be American-controlled, though, but UN. And at least we'd be doing something good with our insane amount of military spending. I can't imagine most members here support theocracies, oppressive dictatorships and the general insanity that is the Middle East.

[SimSim]

At this point, I almost would prefer the first world nations marching in and taking complete control of the Middle East. Not forever, but at least until everyone living there now is dead of old age. They've proven themselves unable to handle freedom and independence at all, so it should be taken, just like any criminals'. Sure, there's good people, but they'll just be oppressed and murdered by the people with power, so, fuck you, Middle East.

Oh yay, the white man's burden strikes again! I'm sure it'll work out just as well as it did in the past.

More like, "Could we, oh, idk, perhaps help out instead of just shipping shit there and praying that works?"

Yeah, no.

What you're arguing was the same argument that the European countries used to justify colonialism. Taking control of countries and continents because the natives can't do it properly. It worked ever so well, and totally didn't lead to issues that are still going on now, hundreds of years later.