Author Topic: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad  (Read 20748 times)

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Offline nickiknack

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2012, 01:05:50 pm »
When was the last time we had a real left?? The 60's maybe, all I know it was before my time, and over the last 30 years anything considered to be "left" has become dirty. Just look how "Obamacare" started as a republican idea from the Heritage Foundation to now SOCIALIZM!!! This is one the reasons I'm jaded as fuck when it comes to politics, and sometimes I want to watch this country burn to the ground, at this point I'll be more than happy to light the match. I really believe we need to just start all over again, let the Paultards amd the other randroids have their own little country, I'll be more than happy to let them go, since they don't want to be part of society as a whole.

Offline StallChaser

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2012, 02:28:03 pm »
You have a choice of being slapped in the face or having a finger cut off.  If you choose neither, one will be chosen for you.  That's fundamentally what's going on with America's fucked up 2 party system, but it's incredibly stupid to say the choices are equal.  They're not.

We at least know, for better or worse, what Obama wants to do.  Romney refuses to say anything at all specific about what his budget plans will be.  That alone should be a massive red flag.

Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2012, 02:45:50 pm »
Romney is not doing that. He has written off 47% of the country as not worth campaigning for, and I can guarantee you that he knows he can't attract young people at all because of his stance on student loans and women's health care.

It doesn't matter, Obama will campaign to attract non-white and poor voters, it doesn't mean he will actually do anything to help them.

Right, because Obama doesn't care at all about poor or non-white voters.

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By saying that he is not the lesser of two evils, you are saying that Romney is a better choice.

It certainly does not. Saying X is not better than Y does not say Y is better than X.

That's not what you said. You said Obama was not the lesser of two evils. If you have two evils, and Evil A is not the lesser of Evil B, then Evil B is the lesser of the two evils.

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Are you seriously suggesting that a racist, homophobic, sexist, privileged rich white dude who doesn't have any clear policies on anything (except, of course, fucking over the middle class) is a better choice than a right-of-center Democrat? Is that seriously what you are suggesting? Because I'm not seeing any evidence for that whatsoever.

Right of centre? This is what you describe someone who unashamedly supports the bankers, is more than happy to chum around with neo-liberals, attacks unions and workers (not that American unions are any good) and destroy social security? Just because Obama isn't as openly sexist and homophobic as Mitt Romney doesn't mean he has done anything good. Wow, he removed DADT.
A) The Democrats are losing support, which is also why he came out in support of same sex marriage rights though he hasn't done anything, and so they need to regain support.

B) The American military is facing a recruitment crisis

He has also stopped defending DOMA, increased rights for trans people, and signed the Byrd-Shepherd Act.

Also, if we're going to be snippy about motivations behind passing rights, women got the vote in America because President Wilson thought that their moral rectitude would cause them to vote for causes he supported (also, statewise, having women voters attracted women out West).

What's that about women's rights? A shit ton of states have passed laws attacking abortion and contraception rights? Especially in his first two years, where Obama held a majority in both the House of Reps and the Senate? But then, defer for the first two years and then blame everything on the Republicans. Easy.

Obama can't control state laws, since he is not in charge of individual states. That's just flat-out stupid as an argument.

I'm not seeing how Obama is any good. At all really.

Well, see, I do.

Also, the idea of voting for the lesser evil is bullshit. Specifically for America, the Democrats are not a social democratic party, they are a liberal bourgeois party. There is a difference between the Democrats and the Labour/Labor/Social Democratic/Socialist parties of Europe and Australia. The latter, no matter how shitty and terrible they are, have some connection with the working class (though that is not to say that I would endorse them). Also, voting to keep the Republicans out allows the Democrats to move as far to the right as they want, they can simply point to the Republican menace to gain left-wing support, and then justify any rightward shift as a means to gain votes.

Yes, it's true that our two-party system sucks. That's not Obama's fault, and it's not a reason to not vote for him when the system is so thoroughly fucked that voting for literally anyone else (or not voting at all) is at best stupid and at worst deliberately malevolent, considering everything that's at stake. Please, tell me a solution that will actually work and I'll be behind it wholeheartedly, but considering that there isn't one, I'd rather vote for Obama and keep my rights as a woman and queer person than be subjected to a Romney presidency.

Offline VirtualStranger

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2012, 03:03:45 pm »
The U.S. does have a real leftist party, it's just that they're completely irrelevant in the national landscape.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Offline Qlockworkcanary

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2012, 04:00:24 pm »
"Especially in his first two years, where Obama held a majority in both the House of Reps and the Senate?"

We had 60+ Democrats controlling the Senate in 2009-2010? I don't remember this. I remember a lot of filibustering by the GOP. Wasn't it more like 50/49/1? I would not call that "control" myself. Also of note is that, just because the GOP automatons march lock, stock, and barrel (even against their own previously held stances) with one another doesn't mean the Democrats do or even should.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that the President had difficulty getting anything through a filibustering GOP Senate and House when their sole mission was to obstruct him just for the sake of it.

Sorry, I just get really tired of reading/hearing that somehow Obama ever controlled either branch of Congress, when that was never the case.
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Offline m52nickerson

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« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 04:42:08 pm by m52nickerson »
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Offline nickiknack

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2012, 04:55:10 pm »
"Especially in his first two years, where Obama held a majority in both the House of Reps and the Senate?"

We had 60+ Democrats controlling the Senate in 2009-2010? I don't remember this. I remember a lot of filibustering by the GOP. Wasn't it more like 50/49/1? I would not call that "control" myself. Also of note is that, just because the GOP automatons march lock, stock, and barrel (even against their own previously held stances) with one another doesn't mean the Democrats do or even should.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that the President had difficulty getting anything through a filibustering GOP Senate and House when their sole mission was to obstruct him just for the sake of it.

Sorry, I just get really tired of reading/hearing that somehow Obama ever controlled either branch of Congress, when that was never the case.

The Democrats did control both houses for a time, the problem is that there's a bunch of factions within the party itself, and there's a good deal of consevatives within the Democratic party(Blue Dogs) or caucus with them(like Joe Lieberman) that like to drag their feet when it comes to some issues. I remember a lot feet dragging was done over healthcare, because god forbid we have any decent kind of healthcare in this country.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 04:58:39 pm by Nicki »

Offline VirtualStranger

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2012, 05:05:15 pm »
What you're all forgetting is that unless you live in Ohio, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Iowa, Colorado, or Nevada, your vote doesn't matter.

If you don't live in any of those states (especially Ohio), you can go ahead and vote for a third party because your vote will not make a single difference in the electoral vote count.

You have the electoral college and the first-past-the-post voting system to thank for that.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 05:09:08 pm by VirtualStranger »

Offline nickiknack

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2012, 05:09:08 pm »
What you're all forgetting is that unless you live in Ohio, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Iowa, Colorado, or Nevada, your vote doesn't matter.

If you don't live in any of those states (especially Ohio), you can go ahead and vote for a third party because your vote will not make a single difference in the electoral vote count.

For that you have the electoral college and the FTTP voting system to thank.

Why the Electoral College and the our entire voting system sucks balls part #567
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 05:15:10 pm by Nicki »

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2012, 05:45:37 pm »
Romney is not doing that. He has written off 47% of the country as not worth campaigning for, and I can guarantee you that he knows he can't attract young people at all because of his stance on student loans and women's health care.

It doesn't matter, Obama will campaign to attract non-white and poor voters, it doesn't mean he will actually do anything to help them.

Right, because Obama doesn't care at all about poor or non-white voters.

Quote
By saying that he is not the lesser of two evils, you are saying that Romney is a better choice.

It certainly does not. Saying X is not better than Y does not say Y is better than X.

That's not what you said. You said Obama was not the lesser of two evils. If you have two evils, and Evil A is not the lesser of Evil B, then Evil B is the lesser of the two evils.


Or the equal of two evils. 8)
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline m52nickerson

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2012, 06:10:12 pm »
What you're all forgetting is that unless you live in Ohio, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Iowa, Colorado, or Nevada, your vote doesn't matter.

It still takes other states to win, your vote does count.
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. ~Macbeth

Offline gyeonghwa

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2012, 06:29:19 pm »
Please, tell me a solution that will actually work and I'll be behind it wholeheartedly, but considering that there isn't one, I'd rather vote for Obama and keep my rights as a woman and queer person than be subjected to a Romney presidency.

Quoted for motherfucking truth. Yeah, Obama isn't the perfect (or even) leftist candidate. WE GET IT. But trying to be a queer person or a person of color and not voting for the party mostly likely to guarantee your civil liberties as a queer person or a person of color. It's not an option for us. 
That may be the single gayest thing I have ever read on this board. Or the old one. ;)

Offline nickiknack

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2012, 06:58:38 pm »
Ok, I see where this is headed. Let's all agree the the U.S. electoral system is pretty crappy,with having only a real choice of shit or shit on a stick. Our third parties are more or less completely ignored by the media, and only serve as spoilers in swing states.Please don't bad mouth those who vote third party, especially if they live in a safe state., because remember they're sick of the 2 party system too. Also we need MAJOR ELECTORAL REFORM. There, saved a whole conversation and about 5 pages worth of bs.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 07:13:12 pm by Nicki »

Offline niam2023

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Re: Samuel L. Jackson Obama Ad
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2012, 07:12:42 pm »
Still doesn't change the fact I am getting out of my house and doing something for the election.
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