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Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: Skybison on May 25, 2017, 02:41:53 am

Title: Canadian Politics
Post by: Skybison on May 25, 2017, 02:41:53 am
So any other Canadians here paying attention to the conservative party leadership that's concluding this weekend? I admit I haven't been paying as much attention as I should, what with the US burning down and all.

For anyone who doesn't follow Canadian politics (so everyone) it's been a good news/bad news thing. Good news is that Canada won't be Trumping this time around. I was terrified our conservative party was going to go full Trump, it looked like that same set up, a divided field with way too many candidates and all the attention going to a) Kellie Leitch the xenophobic race baiter and b) Kevin O'leary the deranged rich asshole with a reality show. But then it just didn't happen, Leitch failed to go anywhere and O'leary dropped out of the race at the last minute.

Instead the favorite to win is Maxime Bernier, a libertarian who wants to legalize pot and destroy single payer healthcare because FREEDOM!!!!!! How you hate freedom so much that you want to force poor people have access to health care?

I'm still pissed that Justin Trudeau broke his promise on proportional representation, but I hope we keep him around to keep us away from extremist economic policies that are proven not to work.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: dpareja on May 25, 2017, 02:56:15 am
The Liberals, for the last 121 years (read: since Laurier became PM), have been Conservatives in drag, by which I mean that their economic policies are slightly less bad (a lot of the good stuff came out of Liberal minorities where they leaned on CCF/NDP support) and their social policies are actually OK. I'd much rather have an actual social democratic government, just not with Mulcair as PM (because he's an attack dog, not a leader).

And I haven't been following the Conservative race that closely, but if that's Bernier's actual position on health care... welcome to unelectability.

Meanwhile, we get to have some minority government fun here in BC, with the legislature consisting of 43 Liberals (note: the BC Liberal Party is a centre-right coalition of federal Liberals and Conservatives), 41 NDPers, and 3 Greens. The Lieutenant-Governor's going to have some fun deciding what to do if Premier Clark loses a confidence vote and asks for a dissolution while Horgan and Weaver are saying they can form a coalition government...
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: Id82 on May 25, 2017, 11:20:13 am
Isn't the single payer system in Canada extremely popular? It would seem that anyone that would go against popular laws and legislation would probably hurt them.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: dpareja on May 29, 2017, 12:51:36 pm
Oh, Kellie Leitch... (http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/kellie-leitch-campaign-1.4135337)

(https://i.imgflip.com/1pwybd.jpg)
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: dpareja on May 30, 2017, 02:34:44 pm
http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/andrew-scheer-leadership-1.4136808

Meanwhile, there's some questions as to whether a potential Prime Minister Scheer would seek to impose his own religious views on Canadians, especially since it appears it was social and religious conservatives within the Conservative Party who won him the leadership.

And in what may be a worrying sign, his platform is already gone from his leadership campaign's website.

EDIT:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/andrew-scheer-joe-clark-analysis-wherry-1.4135852

Comparing Andrew Scheer to Joe Clark: a 30-something Conservative leader taking on a charismatic Trudeau.

And what might be one of the best descriptions of Canadians ever:

Quote
"Trudeau was what Canadians really wanted to be — intellectual, suave, worldly, independent and unpredictable — while Clark was what they feared they were — earnest, nice, competent, unimaginative, honest and rather dull," Ron Graham wrote in a 1983 profile of Clark for Saturday Night magazine.

These days, humorously, Joe Clark is probably the most respected "elder statesman" in Canadian politics.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: Skybison on June 09, 2018, 01:32:23 am
And now Thug Ford, brother of Toronto's famous crack addict mayor and just as big of an asshole, has become premier of Ontario.

Just fucking prefect, because what we really need is a drug dealer in charge.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: dpareja on June 09, 2018, 03:52:52 am
And now Thug Ford, brother of Toronto's famous crack addict mayor and just as big of an asshole, has become premier of Ontario.

Just fucking prefect, because what we really need is a drug dealer in charge.

And once again, populism wins--populist conservatism, because the left couldn't make its own populist case convincingly enough.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: RavynousHunter on June 09, 2018, 09:28:24 am
And now Thug Ford, brother of Toronto's famous crack addict mayor and just as big of an asshole, has become premier of Ontario.

Just fucking prefect, because what we really need is a drug dealer in charge.

There is a bit of a silver lining in the fact that a lot of his people are currently on the legal hot seat for various heinous crimes.  If enough of them are arrested and/or fired, Ford loses his majority; and that's assuming that the man, himself, doesn't get brought up on charges and/or fired.  Thankfully, unlike the US, Canada has a system in place for readily removing ruffians.

(Source: Got a homeboy in Canada that was, shall we say, none too happy about the results, either.)
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: Skybison on September 22, 2018, 02:46:11 am
So something going on in Canadian politics right now is that Maxime Bernier has quit the conservative party because they aren't "Real conservatives" to start the People's Party of Canada (With Blackjack and Hookers).  His main reason is that the conservative party isn't racist enough, er supports "extreme multiculturalism", doesn't want to abolish popular government programs like single payer healthcare and are too mean to Donald Trump, supporting Trudeau in fighting back in the trade war Trump started instead of just letting him do whatever he wants.

Most left wing Canadians I know are thrilled by this, since even a 2% vote split on the right would practically guarantee more Trudeau majorities, but after how many idiotic far right clowns end up winning I really don't want to take a chance on a Canadian UKIP.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: dpareja on September 22, 2018, 02:20:05 pm
Fuck Trudeau.

Also, fuck Scheer and fuck Bernier.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: niam2023 on September 22, 2018, 03:19:46 pm
I know right, so damn unfair that Bernie Sanders can't run in every single country ever./s
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: dpareja on September 22, 2018, 09:05:08 pm
I know right, so damn unfair that Bernie Sanders can't run in every single country ever./s

I'd rather have Elizabeth May, honestly.

EDIT: https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/trudeaus-luck-1.4836956

But Neil MacDonald explains why we're going to get Justin Trudeau again.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on October 05, 2018, 07:00:10 pm
Oh, Kellie Leitch... (http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/kellie-leitch-campaign-1.4135337)

(https://i.imgflip.com/1pwybd.jpg)
"Elites" means people with letters after their name that are unambitious suckers who work in education, research or human services instead of clambering up the greasy pole like they're supposed to.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: DarkPhoenix on November 17, 2018, 11:23:26 pm
Quote
And now Thug Ford, brother of Toronto's famous crack addict mayor and just as big of an asshole, has become premier of Ontario.

I certainly didn't vote for the crook.

Quote
And once again, populism wins--populist conservatism, because the left couldn't make its own populist case convincingly enough.

Populism has absolutely nothing to do with it.  Ford won because people here hate Kathleen Wynne and since she's a Liberal, that means "it's the Conservative's turn now".  The NDP have no chance thanks to the stupid legacy of Bob Rae.

And personally, if the choice is Justin Trudeau or a battery of wackos from the CPoC, I'm going with Trudeau.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: Skybison on November 19, 2018, 01:34:18 pm
Populist doesn't seem to have anything to do with what a candidate actual says but if they campaign based on yelling instead of facts.  Wynne raised the minimum wage to $14 an hour, cracked down on wage theft and introduced pro-worker laws and didn't get an once of credit for it.  Doug undid a lot of that and didn't lose a "populist" support.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: niam2023 on November 19, 2018, 02:27:40 pm
When I hear people saying the left "failed to create a populist front", I hear "they failed to gather properly around a singular messiah".
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: DarkPhoenix on November 21, 2018, 09:17:54 pm
Populist doesn't seem to have anything to do with what a candidate actual says but if they campaign based on yelling instead of facts.  Wynne raised the minimum wage to $14 an hour, cracked down on wage theft and introduced pro-worker laws and didn't get an once of credit for it.

Most of them likely think like my old man: "She blew a BILLION DOLLARS on the gas plant debacle!"

Of course, even he saw through the Kingpin of Toronto.  Apparently a number of other morons did not.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: Skybison on November 22, 2018, 01:51:04 am
^I was talking to a co-worker about why he was planning to vote for Doug Ford:

Him: "Taxation is Theft!"

Me: "Er no, taxes are needed to pay for services like welfare, education, healthcare, police, etc that you (a retail employee with a two year old kid) need but can't afford out of your own pocket."

Then he gives me this look of shocked disbelief and in a tone that screams "I can't believe how stupid you are" explains very slowly and carefully in the most condescending way: "The government prints the money.  They don't need taxes.  They can just print money."

Then I tried to explain how economics works, but everything I said was clearly in one ear, out the other.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: niam2023 on November 22, 2018, 02:14:42 am
You were dealing with a hick.

Their family tree is less a tree and more a bush of kudzu. Don't expect intelligence out of hicks.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: dpareja on November 22, 2018, 03:27:07 am
Never mind that printing money is a federal thing, the provinces have to make do with what they can get.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: Skybison on October 22, 2019, 01:01:57 pm
So Canadian election is over.  Conservatives got the highest percentage of the popular vote (34%) but liberals won the most seats and get to keep a minority government, mostly because Ontarians hate Doug Ford and didn't want a national government that was out to cut all government services down to the bone.

Hopefully the NDP will hold the liberals to the left, instead of their standard not fix anything but at least not make things worse we get when they have majorities.

And Bernier was humiliated that was funny.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: dpareja on October 22, 2019, 09:10:15 pm
Honestly I'm not sure if the best thing to come out of this election was Bernier's humiliation or the Bloc's resurgence.

And I say that because we've had nine federal elections since Mulroney's coalition of Western conservatives and Quebec separatists disintegrated. In that time, we've had four elections with both a unified right-wing party and a strong Bloc Québécois. All four resulted in minority Parliaments. The other five resulted in majority Parliaments.

I do wonder if there'll be some discussions inside the Conservative Party about whether supporting proportional representation might not be such a bad idea.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: Skybison on October 23, 2019, 12:58:58 am
Admittedly there is a... what's the opposite of a silver lining?  one of those... to Bernier's self destruction in that having a vote splitting second party on the right could have helped balance things out and reduce the risk of a conservative majority with only 40% of the vote.  Although that could also mean a minority government where alt-righters hold the balance of power could happen too so it's probably for the best they're dead in the water.

As for the bloq, would they be left wingers taking votes from the liberals/ndp or right wingers taking votes from the cons these days?  They're left wing on most issues, but now that they seem to have given up on independence their big issue is mostly islamophobia/xenophobia.

Also I'm not sure if it's hypocritical to complain about Hillary losing while gaining the popular vote and gloat about conservatives losing while getting the popular vote but I'll do it anyway.
Title: Re: Canadian Politics
Post by: dpareja on October 23, 2019, 01:28:12 am
The Bloc actually have a good number of left-wing policies; opposition to pipelines, for instance.

The thing you really have to keep in mind about Quebec's secularism bill is that, unfortunately, it's pretty popular. And not just in Quebec. And in fact it's decently popular among Liberal and NDP voters. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/secularism-law-opinion-jean-francois-lisee-1.5274015)

And yes, it is hypocritical to complain about it. Hillary Clinton should be President of the United States right now.

However, if we actually had a proportional system, and not one that rewards efficient vote distribution and punishes vote concentration, we would probably have a situation somewhat similar to New Zealand's. The Conservatives would have the most seats (probably; the drastic overrepresentation of the Atlantic provinces in the Commons might put that in doubt), but the Liberals would be in government, in some sort of formal coalition and/or confidence and supply agreement with the New Democrats and the Greens.

Liberals govern like Conservatives when they have a majority, but when they're pushed to it they'll do a few NDP things to get their support when necessary.