Author Topic: Police body cameras coming to Finland  (Read 1280 times)

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Offline Askold

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Police body cameras coming to Finland
« on: April 25, 2017, 10:58:11 am »
I've read stories about these cameras elsewhere and am glad that Finland is putting them to use as well.

There is just one teeny tiny problem... The article is in Finnish so I am going to translate and paraphrase the relevant bit.

https://www.ilkka.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/haalarikamerat-tulevat-poliisit-haluavat-oikeuden-poistaa-nauhoilta-todisteet-virkavirheist%C3%A4%C3%A4n-1.2274308

The Finnish police union has made the REQUIREMENT for the use of body cameras to be that if the video or sound has a record of the officer committing a crime or making a mistake that they may be held liable of they must be allowed to delete the files.

Yes, they are insisting that they will only use the cameras if they can remove any evidence of their own wrongdoings.

They want this because even police officers have the right not to self-incriminate meaning that you don't have to admit that you did a crime if you end up in court and the union thinks that the video recording is no different than any other reports they make and obviously if they fuck up they don't have to admit that in their own reports either.

Also, they claim that this is not a problem to anyone because Finnish police officers are well trained and equipped with good morality. Also they are (almost) always with a partner and naturally the partner would still testify against the cop that does something wrong.


...Which raises the question: What if the partner also does something against the rules or laws?
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Police body cameras coming to Finland
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2017, 09:49:43 pm »
Or what if, y'know, someone isn't terribly eager to rat out someone they work with every day of their lives.

the fuck, cops. if we trusted the current system to catch cops who break the law, we would not be asking you to wear cameras

(though I'm at hoping this can become gradual steps. First you normalise cameras, then when everybody is wearing one you wait for a high-profile incident where a cop is known to have deleted evidence...)
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Offline SomeApe

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Re: Police body cameras coming to Finland
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 05:48:10 am »
Since february, the Zurich city police test bodycams as a pilot scheme. Interestingly, the main reason they want to try this seems to be more to prevent violence towards police than vice versa. Though a lot of policemen/women are against it, because they think it devalues their testimony. The pilot scheme is accompanied by a scientific study of the ZHAW (Zurich university of applied sciences).
I'm not really sure where to stand on this issue as I'm not even sure where to stand on the whole "surveillance state" stuff.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Police body cameras coming to Finland
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2017, 06:24:15 am »
Surveillance and freedom of privacy are a limiting factor in Finland as well. For example, if the police go into someone's home they would have to shut down the cameras.

But the thing is that I am generally in favour of these cameras, even if the primary motivation is to reduce the dangers to police officers it is a good thing. The main benefit of ability to use the cameras against police crimes or misconduct is a big deal as well but I know that it is harder to accomplish due to the misplaced elitism and pride of the police.

Because that is what the resistance seems to be based on everywhere. "We are police officers" they say "we are trustworthy and honest and saying that WE have to be monitored at all times is an insult and shows a serious lack of trust towards us." ...Well, that suspicion is not entirely misplaced and besides, "the honest have nothing to fear" right?
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline SomeApe

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Re: Police body cameras coming to Finland
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2017, 06:52:16 am »
Because that is what the resistance seems to be based on everywhere. "We are police officers" they say "we are trustworthy and honest and saying that WE have to be monitored at all times is an insult and shows a serious lack of trust towards us." ...Well, that suspicion is not entirely misplaced and besides, "the honest have nothing to fear" right?
I agree. And they certainly shouldn't be able to delete their own wrongdoings. Just the fact that they request this puts them in an untrustworthy light.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Police body cameras coming to Finland
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 09:02:31 am »
Funny thing is, there have been PDs here in the States that tried out bodycams and, after the trial was over, begged to have them back.  Guess they like that people were nicer to them since the cams helped ensure that they were actually accountable for their actions.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Police body cameras coming to Finland
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 07:55:34 pm »
I think the framing should be something like 'No, no, no, it's not that we think you're corrupt or anything. It's just that you need high standards of trust to be a representative of the State, and we want everyone to have reason to trust you. And of course, you will have no trouble living up to those standards, right?'
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Police body cameras coming to Finland
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 11:00:04 pm »
I think the framing should be something like 'No, no, no, it's not that we think you're corrupt or anything. It's just that you need high standards of trust to be a representative of the State, and we want everyone to have reason to trust you. And of course, you will have no trouble living up to those standards, right?'
You're implying that our standards are low to begin with, wail, gnash, howl, cry, hashtag bluelivesmatter!!!

...chanelling police unions and supporters. Yeah, strawman I know but it's not like they've made a good case for not having them yet.