Author Topic: Worst of Social Justice  (Read 1533324 times)

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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7485 on: November 02, 2015, 08:15:04 pm »
sixth. i don't understand, help me out will you? first one says that lgbt spaces are not an orgy waiting to happen and that's good news? the second calls out the first for being "assimilationist" (?) and seems to adopt the position that an lgbt space can in fact be a den of sin?... the more i read it the less it makes sense. are sjw's actually calling each other out on their tolerance? what.

This is a thing. Basically, there's a group of people who think "lgbt people are just like you, except we love different people!" is a problematic statement, because of the implication (real or not) that "being just like the cishets" is a price to be paid to gain equal rights, and some people are not and dont' want to be like the cishets. Like everything else in the sj-sphere, this ends up drawing battle lines where on one side you have assimilationist gay white men who vote for Hillary and on the other side radical black punk queers who want to smash the system.
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Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7486 on: November 02, 2015, 09:52:06 pm »
sixth. i don't understand, help me out will you? first one says that lgbt spaces are not an orgy waiting to happen and that's good news? the second calls out the first for being "assimilationist" (?) and seems to adopt the position that an lgbt space can in fact be a den of sin?... the more i read it the less it makes sense. are sjw's actually calling each other out on their tolerance? what.

This is a thing. Basically, there's a group of people who think "lgbt people are just like you, except we love different people!" is a problematic statement, because of the implication (real or not) that "being just like the cishets" is a price to be paid to gain equal rights, and some people are not and dont' want to be like the cishets. Like everything else in the sj-sphere, this ends up drawing battle lines where on one side you have assimilationist gay white men who vote for Hillary and on the other side radical black punk queers who want to smash the system.

so... now people want to be seen as different yet be not different? at the risk of repeating myself, what.
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Offline Ghoti

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7487 on: November 02, 2015, 10:23:31 pm »
sixth. i don't understand, help me out will you? first one says that lgbt spaces are not an orgy waiting to happen and that's good news? the second calls out the first for being "assimilationist" (?) and seems to adopt the position that an lgbt space can in fact be a den of sin?... the more i read it the less it makes sense. are sjw's actually calling each other out on their tolerance? what.

This is a thing. Basically, there's a group of people who think "lgbt people are just like you, except we love different people!" is a problematic statement, because of the implication (real or not) that "being just like the cishets" is a price to be paid to gain equal rights, and some people are not and dont' want to be like the cishets. Like everything else in the sj-sphere, this ends up drawing battle lines where on one side you have assimilationist gay white men who vote for Hillary and on the other side radical black punk queers who want to smash the system.

so... now people want to be seen as different yet be not different? at the risk of repeating myself, what.
Well, considering that lgbt people are people, different people are going to want different things. Some people want to settle down with their same-sex partner and have a house in the suburbs and a dog and 2.5 adopted children, some people want to violently smash the heteropatriarchy with a sledgehammer and piss on the little pieces. They both attack each other; the former group for being "assimilationist", the latter for being "obnoxious" or for "driving away allies". Personally there are elements of mainstream heteronormative society I'd like to see less of, but I think we can get rid of them without murdering anybody. Also I hate you for introducing me to the concept of urolagnia.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7488 on: November 03, 2015, 01:06:52 am »
Well I'm not Ghoti but...
hey ghoti, care to walk me through your post?

first one. i'm a cisthet male. i like wearing skirts, robes, and (neutral) dresses. i'm genderfluid now?
The Tumblerite was making that claim. Ghoti pointed out that wearing dresses and pants occasionally does not mean that you are genderfluid.

second one. uh, i thought being ace was different from being sex-repulsed. i hate urolagnia, i'm sooooo ace.
You are missing the point. The point wasn't "sex is gross" it was "sex is weird and I don't get the point." ...Which seems to be a good explanation of asexualism. (though the example might have been a bad one.)

"maybe if you didn't weren't flammable i wouldn't feel the urge to set you on fire". victim-blaming. i think we already covered that mental illness was not a "get out of jail free" card to be horrible to others, didn't we?
And Ghoti agrees while the Tumblerite believes that they should be excused of their behaviour.

sixth. i don't understand, help me out will you? first one says that lgbt spaces are not an orgy waiting to happen and that's good news? the second calls out the first for being "assimilationist" (?) and seems to adopt the position that an lgbt space can in fact be a den of sin?... the more i read it the less it makes sense. are sjw's actually calling each other out on their tolerance? what.
This has already been discussed but yes, the point is that some LGBT people are quite "vanilla" when it comes to sex and the poster wanted to explain that not everyone who is gay goes into weird orgies and has casual sex all the time. Meanwhile the second poster obviously is a bit different and THEY are outraged at the gay people who aren't as wild as they are.

And no, it is not just because the latter group demands the right to be as wild as they want, to them being kinky is a rebellion against the heteronormative lifestyle and any LGBT people who aren't like them are considered traitors for trying to "blend in" with the normies.

...And now I'm reminded of Atlas Saarikoski who (among other things) demanded that GLBT should go and throw firebombs at churches while straight people are getting married because to Atlas any suggestion to "fix" things so that the ones who are suffering no longer suffer is wrong and the only solution to any problem is to drag down those who AREN'T suffering and ensure that everyone is having a bad time. (Seriously, after seeing Palestine Atlas had a revelation that there should also be tanks rolling and shooting in Finnish streets, because that would be "fair.")
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7489 on: November 03, 2015, 04:03:26 am »
Quote from: askold
You are missing the point. The point wasn't "sex is gross" it was "sex is weird and I don't get the point." ...Which seems to be a good explanation of asexualism. (though the example might have been a bad one.)

THANK you. (although I'm sort of both of the "sex is gross" AND the "sex is weird and I don't get the point" variety so *shrug*)

Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7490 on: November 03, 2015, 06:06:25 am »
Also I hate you for introducing me to the concept of urolagnia.

anytime, buddy  ;D

(click to show/hide)
don't worry askold, i was totally agreeing with dongy (and asking for clarifications because some of those were a bit left-field). re: the ace one i was trying to come off as facetious. swing and a miss?

regarding the "what." bit. different strokes for different folks, but can we chalk it up to venting frustration on the net or are they actually serious?

Quote from: askold
You are missing the point. The point wasn't "sex is gross" it was "sex is weird and I don't get the point." ...Which seems to be a good explanation of asexualism. (though the example might have been a bad one.)

THANK you. (although I'm sort of both of the "sex is gross" AND the "sex is weird and I don't get the point" variety so *shrug*)

and there is nothing wrong with that, although from personal experience, my ace friends were of the "what's a sex drive and what's sexual attraction?" camp. maybe the reason why i thought that "sex is gross" was closer to sex-repulsion than asexuality. live and learn, hope you didn't take it badly. but seeing that screed written it seemed to be written by an edgy 14 year old trying to look cool on tumblr rather than an honest to goodness ace. the analogy was too immature for it to be legit, see what i mean?
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7491 on: November 03, 2015, 06:08:43 am »
Yeah, that analogy was pretty shite. 

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7492 on: November 03, 2015, 09:07:59 am »
Hell, I'm sexual and even I don't 100% get the point of sex.  Then again, I was kinda abused by my so-called peers into brutal pragmatism, soooo...yeah.
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7493 on: November 03, 2015, 09:14:49 am »
I mean I get the point of sex. People do it for pleasure, because they like it, because it's a way of bonding even closer with their partner, to express their emotions, because they're driven to have sex with specific people and that's sexual attraction I guess? I get the concept, I just don't... get it. On a personal level. I'm not on... that frequency?

Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7494 on: November 03, 2015, 10:14:53 am »
I mean I get the point of sex. People do it for pleasure, because they like it, because it's a way of bonding even closer with their partner, to express their emotions, because they're driven to have sex with specific people and that's sexual attraction I guess? I get the concept, I just don't... get it. On a personal level. I'm not on... that frequency?

i believe the term you're looking for is "it's not my thing". and that's cool.

eta: so long as you live a happy life in accordance to your standards, of course.
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7495 on: November 03, 2015, 10:36:00 am »
I wasn't being defensive, I was just trying to clarify my previous response which I realized was misrepresentative. But still, thanks.

someone post some shit here so this thread can be derailed from people giving me consideration because that feels weird

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7496 on: November 03, 2015, 12:04:59 pm »
I wasn't being defensive, I was just trying to clarify my previous response which I realized was misrepresentative. But still, thanks.

someone post some shit here so this thread can be derailed from people giving me consideration because that feels weird

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Trying to shame gay men into liking vaginas?  Why does that sound familiar?

Offline rookie

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7497 on: November 03, 2015, 12:07:07 pm »
Ooh ooh! Is it because we're coming closer to "I can get her to like the D!"?
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7498 on: November 03, 2015, 12:09:50 pm »
Acknowledging that pre-transition transgender men exist and correcting cissexism... posted onto WoSJ. Yippee.

EDIT: I'm not saying gay men should be forced to have sex with people with vaginas, that would be fucking wretched.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 01:56:24 pm by Even Then »

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7499 on: November 03, 2015, 04:47:33 pm »
I wasn't being defensive, I was just trying to clarify my previous response which I realized was misrepresentative. But still, thanks.

someone post some shit here so this thread can be derailed from people giving me consideration because that feels weird

Ask and ye shall receive:



Trying to shame gay men into liking vaginas?  Why does that sound familiar?

First: it's perfectly possible to express frustration at cissexism without actually saying everyone should have sex with a trans person right now. I believe kasstle fell on the right side of that line.

Second: "trans people insisting women can have penises are trying to force lesbians to have sex with men!" is a depressingly common TERF argument, and what you posted is nearly the exact analogue for gay men. I'm not trying to guilt you by association or anything like that, just a bit of advice: if you use that argument with any regularity, someone is probably going to assume you're parroting TERF talking points.
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