Author Topic: More proof that Christianity is true.  (Read 14818 times)

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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #75 on: October 17, 2018, 07:31:40 pm »
Good is defined by whether there is a rational reason why it is good. God gives rational justified reasons for his actions.

OK, so you subscribe to natural law-or maybe you just do when divine command theory inevitably starts popping out absurdities. Lets have a look at one of your favourite genocides from the bible, the great flood and the stated reason for it.

Quote
6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Note he's not just talking about humans, he's talking about bunny rabbits, cows, molluscs and let's not forget all those unborn children (violent, violent unborn children). Because there are a few violent douches douching around Yahweh will violently douche on everything but Noah's floating zoo.

Yes he gives a reason, no it is not rational or justified. It makes no sense to combat the existence of violence with greater violence that does more lasting harm.

In Genesis 32:25 God enters a wrestling match with Jacob and loses so he uses magic to break his leg. Now you could argue in a sense that's rational, if all you want to do is show you can win but it's not justified - wrestling is matching ability and skill and cheating just shows you're a dirty, rotten cheater. In Exodus 9:16 God tells the pharaoh that he put him there just to show him his power. Rational? You have literally infinite power and resources, is raising up a dynasty just to bring it down the most rational way to go about this? Why not just do the Jesus trick and pop out some Merlot and mudskipper from thin air? Justified? Come on, set aside all the plagues, misery, dismembered cattle, fermenting frogs and dying children and just make Moses pharaoh-get the other guy to be chamberlain of the royal stool or something!

Unless you're defaulting back to divine command theory and calling it rational and justified because it comes from the creator and therefore in must be, blah blah blah it isn't possible to call all of the actions of a notoriously jealous and wrathful deity both justified and rational. Unless of course you're just here to troll, and you enjoying defending perversity merely to annoy. The thought has crossed my mind...

1. The region of the Middle East that was flooded was filled with violence because it was full of Nephilim who committed violence against the non Nephilim humans till Noah and his family were the only survivors.

2. It was not cheating, it was showing that he was more powerful and could win the match.

3. Showing off his power would cause the Israelites to believe in him and worship him.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #76 on: October 17, 2018, 09:49:31 pm »
1. Not the stated reason, the stated reason was in the verse I cited, chapter and verse citation pls. Also, the bible says nothing about it being confined to one geographic region. Chapter and verse citation for this contention if you don't mind.

2. It's still cheating. If a match organiser enters the ring for a boxing bout and shoots the other contestant in the leg because he didn't take a fall he only demonstrates his power and cheats. The two are not mutually exclusive.

3. Merlot and mudfish, produced from thin air, works just as well, just ask Jesus.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 09:55:15 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #77 on: October 18, 2018, 09:33:41 am »
1. Not the stated reason, the stated reason was in the verse I cited, chapter and verse citation pls. Also, the bible says nothing about it being confined to one geographic region. Chapter and verse citation for this contention if you don't mind.

2. It's still cheating. If a match organiser enters the ring for a boxing bout and shoots the other contestant in the leg because he didn't take a fall he only demonstrates his power and cheats. The two are not mutually exclusive.

3. Merlot and mudfish, produced from thin air, works just as well, just ask Jesus.

1. Yes them being violent was the reason for the flood, and I was saying that they were violent against the non Nephillim because they were Nephilim. The flood has to be local because there is no geological evidence of a global flood.

2. But a gun is not a demonstration of physical strength because it is an extra aiding object. God displayed his physical strength.

3. But God wanted to show off his power to punish the Egyptians for enslaving the Israelites in the first place.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #78 on: October 18, 2018, 04:15:53 pm »
1. Thank you Jacob, you've just contended that the bible is wrong about something. Nowhere in the bible does it say that the flood was confined to a specific geographic region and Genesis 6:7 has Yahweh say he'll destroy humankind from the face of the Earth, period. If what you contend is true, then the bible must be false. Thanks, it's easier when you do my work for me, ta.

2. So are eye-gouging, spitting, kicks to the balls and sneak attacks - still cheating. He couldn't overpower him so he resorted to magic. That's cheating.


3. You want to impress people, the most rational and justified path involves child murder, plague and making an entire ethnic group refugees? And you have infinite power and resources? No, it just isn't.

And we're back to debating the minutia of the wholly babble because that's your safe zone even though you suck at it. You'd much rather do that than articulate precisely what your understanding of ethics is because divine command types like yourself inevitably starts popping out absurdities. Your cosplaying at natural law ethics isn't very convincing either as your understanding of what's rational is way off base.


Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #79 on: October 18, 2018, 05:28:32 pm »
1. Thank you Jacob, you've just contended that the bible is wrong about something. Nowhere in the bible does it say that the flood was confined to a specific geographic region and Genesis 6:7 has Yahweh say he'll destroy humankind from the face of the Earth, period. If what you contend is true, then the bible must be false. Thanks, it's easier when you do my work for me, ta.

2. So are eye-gouging, spitting, kicks to the balls and sneak attacks - still cheating. He couldn't overpower him so he resorted to magic. That's cheating.


3. You want to impress people, the most rational and justified path involves child murder, plague and making an entire ethnic group refugees? And you have infinite power and resources? No, it just isn't.

And we're back to debating the minutia of the wholly babble because that's your safe zone even though you suck at it. You'd much rather do that than articulate precisely what your understanding of ethics is because divine command types like yourself inevitably starts popping out absurdities. Your cosplaying at natural law ethics isn't very convincing either as your understanding of what's rational is way off base.

1. Kol, the Hebrew word for Earth can also mean land, country, or ground so it does not have to refer to the entire planet.

2. Ancient wrestling did not have the rules that modern day wrestling has.

3. But it is a rational and justified punishment of the Egyptians for enslaving the Israelites.

Offline Skybison

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2018, 12:28:50 am »
3. But it is a rational and justified punishment of the Egyptians for enslaving the Israelites.

If during the US civil war, Abraham Lincoln ordered that the oldest child in every southern white family be killed, would that have been justified?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 12:31:41 am by Skybison »

Offline dpareja

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #81 on: October 19, 2018, 03:38:58 am »
3. But it is a rational and justified punishment of the Egyptians for enslaving the Israelites.

If during the US civil war, Abraham Lincoln ordered that the oldest child in every southern white family be killed, would that have been justified?

Something something God's Chosen People something something no doubt.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2018, 04:59:27 am »
1. Thank you Jacob, you've just contended that the bible is wrong about something. Nowhere in the bible does it say that the flood was confined to a specific geographic region and Genesis 6:7 has Yahweh say he'll destroy humankind from the face of the Earth, period. If what you contend is true, then the bible must be false. Thanks, it's easier when you do my work for me, ta.

2. So are eye-gouging, spitting, kicks to the balls and sneak attacks - still cheating. He couldn't overpower him so he resorted to magic. That's cheating.


3. You want to impress people, the most rational and justified path involves child murder, plague and making an entire ethnic group refugees? And you have infinite power and resources? No, it just isn't.

And we're back to debating the minutia of the wholly babble because that's your safe zone even though you suck at it. You'd much rather do that than articulate precisely what your understanding of ethics is because divine command types like yourself inevitably starts popping out absurdities. Your cosplaying at natural law ethics isn't very convincing either as your understanding of what's rational is way off base.

1. Kol, the Hebrew word for Earth can also mean land, country, or ground so it does not have to refer to the entire planet.

2. Ancient wrestling did not have the rules that modern day wrestling has.

3. But it is a rational and justified punishment of the Egyptians for enslaving the Israelites.

1. In the original Hebrew the phrase used is "hā·’ă·ḏā·māh," meaning "of the earth" and the full translated phrase is "He was grieved on the earth man - He had made that Yahweh And was sorry birds and creeping thing to beast and from man of the earth the face from I have created whom man I will destroy." - that's a translation of the original Hebrew. The word "kol" is nowhere to be found.

2. If you can't overpower someone by wrestling, which is what happened, other means aint wrestling. Magic is not wrestling even to confused cavemen.

3. Child murder and wanton slaughter are only "rational and justified" to divine command theorists like you because it came, allegedly, from your skydaddy who you're terrified of. "Might makes right" isn't rational or justified to anybody else save for fascists and tyrants.

Offline Svata

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #83 on: October 19, 2018, 05:19:55 am »
*mumbles about how outside of the holy book with an agenda to push there's no records of the Israelites being enslaved in Egypt ever*
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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #84 on: October 19, 2018, 07:48:18 am »
1. Thank you Jacob, you've just contended that the bible is wrong about something. Nowhere in the bible does it say that the flood was confined to a specific geographic region and Genesis 6:7 has Yahweh say he'll destroy humankind from the face of the Earth, period. If what you contend is true, then the bible must be false. Thanks, it's easier when you do my work for me, ta.

2. So are eye-gouging, spitting, kicks to the balls and sneak attacks - still cheating. He couldn't overpower him so he resorted to magic. That's cheating.


3. You want to impress people, the most rational and justified path involves child murder, plague and making an entire ethnic group refugees? And you have infinite power and resources? No, it just isn't.

And we're back to debating the minutia of the wholly babble because that's your safe zone even though you suck at it. You'd much rather do that than articulate precisely what your understanding of ethics is because divine command types like yourself inevitably starts popping out absurdities. Your cosplaying at natural law ethics isn't very convincing either as your understanding of what's rational is way off base.

1. Kol, the Hebrew word for Earth can also mean land, country, or ground so it does not have to refer to the entire planet.

2. Ancient wrestling did not have the rules that modern day wrestling has.

3. But it is a rational and justified punishment of the Egyptians for enslaving the Israelites.

1. In the original Hebrew the phrase used is "hā·’ă·ḏā·māh," meaning "of the earth" and the full translated phrase is "He was grieved on the earth man - He had made that Yahweh And was sorry birds and creeping thing to beast and from man of the earth the face from I have created whom man I will destroy." - that's a translation of the original Hebrew. The word "kol" is nowhere to be found.

2. If you can't overpower someone by wrestling, which is what happened, other means aint wrestling. Magic is not wrestling even to confused cavemen.

3. Child murder and wanton slaughter are only "rational and justified" to divine command theorists like you because it came, allegedly, from your skydaddy who you're terrified of. "Might makes right" isn't rational or justified to anybody else save for fascists and tyrants.

1. The Hebrew word hadamah can also mean ground. https://biblehub.com/hebrew/haadamah_127.htm

2.
Quote
[24] He remained alone: and behold a man wrestled with him till morning. [25] And when he saw that he could not overcome him, he touched the sinew of his thigh, and forthwith it shrank.-Genesis 32:24-25 Douay Rheims Version

So it was an angel disguised as a man, and he touched the sinew of his thigh so I don’t know where you got that he used magic to break his legs. So it was a fair match.

3. But I explained how the plagues on Egypt was rational and justified because the Egyptians enslaved the Israelites.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #85 on: October 19, 2018, 07:51:50 am »
*mumbles about how outside of the holy book with an agenda to push there's no records of the Israelites being enslaved in Egypt ever*

My original post contains links that show proof of the plagues on Egypt both with Egyptian historical records and scientific proof and also contains proof of the Exodus.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #86 on: October 19, 2018, 08:05:56 am »
1. Whatever dude, you can pretend he's talking about dirt but 'man' in the plural sense is pretty unambiguous.

2. Seriously who cares if you're cheating through a proxy? Cheating is cheating.

3. Infinite resources and power remember, you can get the same result with less grief unless you just enjoy being an asshole.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 08:20:00 am by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #87 on: October 19, 2018, 08:20:35 am »
1. Whatever dude, you an pretebd he's talking about dirt but 'man' in the plural sense is pretty unambiguous.

2. Seriously who cares if you're cheating through a proxy? Cheating is cheating.

3. Infinite resources and power remember, you can get the same result with less grief unless you just enjoy being an asshole.

1. Yes I know that man refers to mankind. He is saying he is going to cleanse the ground of humans.

2. But I quoted the bible verse showing that you were mistaken that he broke Jacob's legs.

3. But any punishment with less grief is a lesser punishment. The Egyptians deserved to be punished severely for enslaving God's chosen people.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #88 on: October 19, 2018, 09:48:11 am »
1. Whatever dude, you an pretebd he's talking about dirt but 'man' in the plural sense is pretty unambiguous.

2. Seriously who cares if you're cheating through a proxy? Cheating is cheating.

3. Infinite resources and power remember, you can get the same result with less grief unless you just enjoy being an asshole.

1. Yes I know that man refers to mankind. He is saying he is going to cleanse the ground of humans.

2. But I quoted the bible verse showing that you were mistaken that he broke Jacob's legs.

3. But any punishment with less grief is a lesser punishment. The Egyptians deserved to be punished severely for enslaving God's chosen people.

1. Genocide. Mankind, all humans save Noah's inbred hillbillies.

2. Wrenched hip, broken leg. Tomato, tomato.

3. Mass murder of innocents.

Lets not forget, I'm just arguing the fantasy story on its merits as it's written and you're inserting stuff in like localised floods because unlike me you want to believe that the entire depraved fantasy is good and real. Jacob, I pity you.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 09:50:46 am by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true.
« Reply #89 on: October 19, 2018, 01:34:06 pm »
1. Whatever dude, you an pretebd he's talking about dirt but 'man' in the plural sense is pretty unambiguous.

2. Seriously who cares if you're cheating through a proxy? Cheating is cheating.

3. Infinite resources and power remember, you can get the same result with less grief unless you just enjoy being an asshole.

1. Yes I know that man refers to mankind. He is saying he is going to cleanse the ground of humans.

2. But I quoted the bible verse showing that you were mistaken that he broke Jacob's legs.

3. But any punishment with less grief is a lesser punishment. The Egyptians deserved to be punished severely for enslaving God's chosen people.

1. Genocide. Mankind, all humans save Noah's inbred hillbillies.

2. Wrenched hip, broken leg. Tomato, tomato.

3. Mass murder of innocents.

Lets not forget, I'm just arguing the fantasy story on its merits as it's written and you're inserting stuff in like localised floods because unlike me you want to believe that the entire depraved fantasy is good and real. Jacob, I pity you.

1. The flood happened a long time ago before humans spread all over the entire Earth.

2. But touching the sinew of his thigh is a display of physical strength rather than using magic as a form of cheating.

3. The Egyptians were not innocent because they enslaved the Israelites.