Author Topic: A theological question about Heaven and Hell  (Read 13732 times)

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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2018, 05:11:41 pm »
A place run by a mad dictator would be hell all over, ya don't say?

What I mean is that, if someone in heaven was upset about a loved one being in hell, then they themselves would be experiencing hell because of their suffering. That is why in those situations, God has to make them happy so that heaven can be heaven.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2018, 05:37:30 pm »
A place run by a mad dictator would be hell all over, ya don't say?

What I mean is that, if someone in heaven was upset about a loved one being in hell, then they themselves would be experiencing hell because of their suffering. That is why in those situations, God has to make them happy so that heaven can be heaven.
So the maintenance of the happy-palace trumps free will, love, freedom and empathy got it.




Nothing dystopian or terrifying about that, not at all.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 06:41:02 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Skybison

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2018, 01:07:28 am »
A place run by a mad dictator would be hell all over, ya don't say?

What I mean is that, if someone in heaven was upset about a loved one being in hell, then they themselves would be experiencing hell because of their suffering. That is why in those situations, God has to make them happy so that heaven can be heaven.

Or he could just not send people to hell.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2018, 07:31:09 am »
A place run by a mad dictator would be hell all over, ya don't say?

What I mean is that, if someone in heaven was upset about a loved one being in hell, then they themselves would be experiencing hell because of their suffering. That is why in those situations, God has to make them happy so that heaven can be heaven.

Or he could just not send people to hell.

But unrepentant sinners deserve to go to hell because of their sins. 

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2018, 09:53:51 am »
A place run by a mad dictator would be hell all over, ya don't say?

What I mean is that, if someone in heaven was upset about a loved one being in hell, then they themselves would be experiencing hell because of their suffering. That is why in those situations, God has to make them happy so that heaven can be heaven.

Or he could just not send people to hell.

But unrepentant sinners deserve to go to hell because of their sins.
Infinite punishment for finite "sins" is just psychotic. Good thing it's all make-believe.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #65 on: September 13, 2018, 10:22:45 am »
A place run by a mad dictator would be hell all over, ya don't say?

What I mean is that, if someone in heaven was upset about a loved one being in hell, then they themselves would be experiencing hell because of their suffering. That is why in those situations, God has to make them happy so that heaven can be heaven.

Or he could just not send people to hell.

But unrepentant sinners deserve to go to hell because of their sins.
Infinite punishment for finite "sins" is just psychotic. Good thing it's all make-believe.

But it is a sin against an infinite being so it is deserving of infinite punishment.

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #66 on: September 13, 2018, 10:54:05 am »
But it is a sin against an infinite being so it is deserving of infinite punishment.
Don't try to pretend there's anything objective about it. It's an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary offence that's no less bullshit now than it would be in any other context. End of story.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #67 on: September 13, 2018, 11:22:04 am »
But it is a sin against an infinite being so it is deserving of infinite punishment.
Don't try to pretend there's anything objective about it. It's an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary offence that's no less bullshit now than it would be in any other context. End of story.

I explained how it is a proportional punishment to the infinite offense.

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2018, 11:34:29 am »
I explained how it is a proportional punishment to the infinite offense.
No, it isn't. Doesn't matter if it comes from the teacher of a class of preschoolers, the US federal government or your supposed Supreme Space Wizard of Everything, offences and punishments are entirely arbitrary no matter the arbiter.

To put it another way, eternal torture for not spending one hour per week singing songs about how great our Dear Leader is is not made any less disgusting by its source. It would be incredibly fucked up if, say, the US president did it. It's no less horrific if your imaginary sky daddy does it.

Offline dpareja

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2018, 11:50:05 am »
Remember: North Koreans can die.
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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2018, 12:25:38 pm »
I explained how it is a proportional punishment to the infinite offense.
No, it isn't. Doesn't matter if it comes from the teacher of a class of preschoolers, the US federal government or your supposed Supreme Space Wizard of Everything, offences and punishments are entirely arbitrary no matter the arbiter.

To put it another way, eternal torture for not spending one hour per week singing songs about how great our Dear Leader is is not made any less disgusting by its source. It would be incredibly fucked up if, say, the US president did it. It's no less horrific if your imaginary sky daddy does it.

Think about it this way. A crime against a President is more serious and has more severe punishment than a crime against a regular person. So the greater the person, the greater the offense and the greater the punishment. And God is infinitely greater than anybody else, so it is an infinitely greater offense deserving of eternal punishment.

Offline Svata

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2018, 12:27:29 pm »
A place run by a mad dictator would be hell all over, ya don't say?

What I mean is that, if someone in heaven was upset about a loved one being in hell, then they themselves would be experiencing hell because of their suffering. That is why in those situations, God has to make them happy so that heaven can be heaven.

Or he could just not send people to hell.

But unrepentant sinners deserve to go to hell because of their sins.
Infinite punishment for finite "sins" is just psychotic. Good thing it's all make-believe.

But it is a sin against an infinite being so it is deserving of infinite punishment.


Wrong. Nothing is deserving of a literal eternity of torture.
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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2018, 01:46:09 pm »
A place run by a mad dictator would be hell all over, ya don't say?

What I mean is that, if someone in heaven was upset about a loved one being in hell, then they themselves would be experiencing hell because of their suffering. That is why in those situations, God has to make them happy so that heaven can be heaven.

Or he could just not send people to hell.

But unrepentant sinners deserve to go to hell because of their sins.
Infinite punishment for finite "sins" is just psychotic. Good thing it's all make-believe.

But it is a sin against an infinite being so it is deserving of infinite punishment.


Wrong. Nothing is deserving of a literal eternity of torture.

I explained in my previous comment on how the greater the person you commit a crime against, the more severe it is and the more severe punishment you get. Sinning against God is therefore the most severe crime you can commit and therefore deserves eternal punishment.

We are all sinners deserving of such a fate, but God is so merciful that he sent his son to die on the cross on our behalf, so that our sins can be forgiven. You just need to accept his sacrifice, and do good works and penance for your sins and you can avoid eternal punishment and have eternal reward.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 01:47:58 pm by Jacob Harrison »

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #73 on: September 13, 2018, 03:55:38 pm »
I explained how it is a proportional punishment to the infinite offense.
No, it isn't. Doesn't matter if it comes from the teacher of a class of preschoolers, the US federal government or your supposed Supreme Space Wizard of Everything, offences and punishments are entirely arbitrary no matter the arbiter.

To put it another way, eternal torture for not spending one hour per week singing songs about how great our Dear Leader is is not made any less disgusting by its source. It would be incredibly fucked up if, say, the US president did it. It's no less horrific if your imaginary sky daddy does it.

Think about it this way. A crime against a President is more serious and has more severe punishment than a crime against a regular person. So the greater the person, the greater the offense and the greater the punishment. And God is infinitely greater than anybody else, so it is an infinitely greater offense deserving of eternal punishment.

A crime against a President is not more severe than a crime against a regular person. Presidents are not special and neither is any other authority figure, including divine authority figures.
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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: A theological question about Heaven and Hell
« Reply #74 on: September 13, 2018, 04:34:47 pm »
I explained how it is a proportional punishment to the infinite offense.
No, it isn't. Doesn't matter if it comes from the teacher of a class of preschoolers, the US federal government or your supposed Supreme Space Wizard of Everything, offences and punishments are entirely arbitrary no matter the arbiter.

To put it another way, eternal torture for not spending one hour per week singing songs about how great our Dear Leader is is not made any less disgusting by its source. It would be incredibly fucked up if, say, the US president did it. It's no less horrific if your imaginary sky daddy does it.

Think about it this way. A crime against a President is more serious and has more severe punishment than a crime against a regular person. So the greater the person, the greater the offense and the greater the punishment. And God is infinitely greater than anybody else, so it is an infinitely greater offense deserving of eternal punishment.

A crime against a President is not more severe than a crime against a regular person. Presidents are not special and neither is any other authority figure, including divine authority figures.

God is special because he is an infinite omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being who is our creator and the creator of the entire universe.